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Stupid question about the bowtie vortecs...

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Old 05-17-2018, 10:17 AM   #1  
84 4+3
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Default Stupid question about the bowtie vortecs...

The head I'm talking about is GM part no. 19331471 the "bowtie" version of the vortec that is machined for the older 6 bolt intakes. My question is that I have a set of l31 heads on the bench and just looking at them I don't think they'd work in say my crossfire. I think even if I were to drill for 6 bolts the intake wouldn't line up well and cause vacuum leaks. Seems like reading that the vortec intakes are a little taller. Okay. So what I'm wondering is are the bowtie version a different runner to overcome this so my renegade would probably work or would I still encounter leaks. I also think I'd run into issues with valve cover clearance because the lip on vortecs is higher iirc.

I ask only because later this year (read when work isn't crazy) I'm thinking about redoing my top end, so heads, intake (I've had problems with this casting of the renegade since day one and I'm going to see if ecklers will stand by their word and exchange it) and maybe a different cam again. I have to see how the current one will play with dynamic pressures and such. I'm probably looking around 10:1 comp when done and intend to keep it pump friendly which shouldn't be that hard at 10. I'm not looking for anything crazy on the power. Maybe 350 crank so I'm keeping my head size around 175-195cc range and I also want to keep the power band below 6.5k. Again shouldn't be too terribly hard. Realistic goal is 330 crank and the car to feel good around town. (Good mid band power I'd guess starting around 1.5-2k) Been looking at dart heads. I like the afrs but I kind of want it to look right. Not apposed to aluminum heads but if i can get away with iron I will just for it to look sleeper lol. (I'd also feel bad painting aluminum heads... I wouldn't I think.) Just thinking out loud. Been pondering this for a while. First thing first is to fix the miss before I go tearing into it again though I have a funny feeling it has to do with the intake...

Comments on the head port matching are what I'm looking for. Anything else feel free to as well lol.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:12 PM   #2  
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The GMPP vortec heads have the bolt holes in the correct location for standard intake. With the production truck heads it will depend on the guy with the drill. The are also options with aftermarket heads both cast and aluminum. I think you want to stay with 1.94 1.5 64-68cc heads. I wouldn't want 72 -76 cc heads.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:14 PM   #3  
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Could you port the cfi intake to match the vortec intake ports?
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:00 PM   #4  
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The GMPP vortec heads have the bolt holes in the correct location for standard intake. With the production truck heads it will depend on the guy with the drill. The are also options with aftermarket heads both cast and aluminum. I think you want to stay with 1.94 1.5 64-68cc heads. I wouldn't want 72 -76 cc heads.
Well the problem as I guesstimate is that the floor of the runner is higher than the standard head. This raising the ceiling too.
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Could you port the cfi intake to match the vortec intake ports?
That photo highlights exactly what I foresee the problem being. I think the renegade has taller runners so I could port match. Those look like regular l31 heads no? I was thinking the bowties are revised a little since they have both patterns... I have a friend at a dealer, I'm trying to see if he could sneak me a set of the bowties so I could compare the differences. As I see these l31s I have right now I think I'd have a vacuum leak with them even if I were really careful having them adapted. They're crap anyway and I have them from my old truck engine solely to see what I'm dealing with. They aren't worth rebuilding imo I'd rather buy a new head of sorts anyway.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:31 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84 4+3 View Post
I'm wondering is are the bowtie version a different runner to overcome this so my renegade would probably work or would I still encounter leaks. I also think I'd run into issues with valve cover clearance because the lip on vortecs is higher iirc.
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Could you port the cfi intake to match the vortec intake ports?
You can run CFI on Vortec heads if you re-drill the bolt holes, plug the old holes in the head, and double stack your intake gaskets. We did this to CFI-EFI's car and it worked out just dandy.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:37 PM   #6  
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..... That F-body guy got your wheels spinning about those awesome L-31 heads ??? .....
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:52 PM   #7  
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You can run CFI on Vortec heads if you re-drill the bolt holes, plug the old holes in the head, and double stack your intake gaskets. We did this to CFI-EFI's car and it worked out just dandy.
At least it could work. I don't know how I'd feel running two intake gaskets. I've been known to have the worst case happen to me always and with my luck it'll leak. Besides, I'm currently using those l31 heads as a door stop.
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..... That F-body guy got your wheels spinning about those awesome L-31 heads ??? .....
God no, those L31 heads are good for a doorstop that's about it. Besides, if he did I'd be trying to figure out how to make those 6x 400 heads I have work on a chevy...

The bowties intrigue me a little, but I really like the dart shp heads. I was looking at the iron eagles but can't really get behind them. Heard a lot of mixed reviews. Really anything is better than those 624s I have on there now though. (90% sure stock is 624, I may be remembering wrong though.)
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:16 AM   #8  
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Too much to worry how they look, cant see them anywyas

190 AFR vortec is an often overlooked head.
Use that, a renegeade intake, headers go easy on the cam timing you will have one strong runningXfie
Iron eagles arent bad but imo need a little work done to wake up that starts costing though.
pm tpi421vette for a good price on a set .

At least youre not looking at cheap ebay stuff whos parts are worth a few $/lb.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:31 AM   #9  
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Too much to worry how they look, cant see them anywyas

190 AFR vortec is an often overlooked head.
Use that, a renegeade intake, headers go easy on the cam timing you will have one strong runningXfie
Iron eagles arent bad but imo need a little work done to wake up that starts costing though.
pm tpi421vette for a good price on a set .

At least youre not looking at cheap ebay stuff whos parts are worth a few $/lb.
I looked into the Ebay stuff briefly due to people saying how well they worked but there seemed to be a lot of leg work involved getting them to that point. I don't feel like making thkns fit. I would rather it be pretty close to start if you get what I'm saying. That and I'd rather have something someone stands behind.

For the iron eagles that's what kept me away, I know flow isn't everything but they were pretty tame given the price and runner sizes. More to read into. I want this to run well on the street, not really going to track the car so the 175-190 range seems to fit that bill. The vortec afrs look pretty neat, I think I'd jump to the 180cc version though. Gotta research more.

Last edited by 84 4+3; 05-20-2018 at 08:32 AM.
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