aklim

I thought that once it goes into closed loop it adjusts but in open loop like WOT it goes off programmed tables?

vader86

To get to 300rwhp I would P&P the intake plenum, change the base manifold out for an Accel/TPiS/etc., port match that with the runners.

Take the D-port heads off and have them ported on, valves, retainers, locks, springs and all for a camshaft in the 210/220 range @050". 1.6RR. Accel 74211 or TPIS ZZ9 are fine cams in that ballpark.

Then headers and exhaust, custom tune, and you should be there.

To get further requires ditching the TPI intake style entirely and going Miniram or Superram.

Space387

I may have the terms backwards, the concept stands though. His issues are when the computer can not adjust for the rich condition.

GREGGPENN

I agree with the last statement. Before that, you didn't look closely enough at the OP. He already has ported top-end with TPIS Bigmouth base. He already has headers/exhaust.

GREGGPENN

In general, intent is there but accuracy is not. Regarding specifics, ignore the post above. In general, fuel management (for an MAF 88) is based on the engine "knowing" air flow. It adds fuel based on sensor input of air input to the motor. The O2 sensor provides feedback on how well it's fueling. (Table data is used during warm-up until the engine/O2 is hot enough to function/measure properly).

Overall, MAF systems are able to correct about 15% error. When you are further off than that, you often end up with problems. The only symptom might be running rich/lean -- which you may not FEEL.

When you have a bigger TB, more air is available ("when stabbed") which means more fuel has to be added for "tip-in". This is likely why it's hesitating when kicked in the butt. (In the old days, this was accomplished with the accelerator pump in the carb...nowadays by fuel management in the ECM).

I agree with Aklim's general comment about wishing to know combo with certainty though it's not totally necessary to adjust a tune.

Additional porting of the SLPs should help with top-end (HP) numbers. Cam orientation will too. In general, advancing gets more torque, retarding get's more HP...which may be of consideration if/when you cam it. Best combo in this forum ran it straight up. Stock orientation is a bit retarded. Again, refer to TPIS if you have them do any work for you.

Oh yeah...I also agree if the ECM just "knew" the injector size (by having the right parm OR reverting back to OEM size), everything else is likely to fall within that 15% margin of error and run "correctly". Or...at least good enough for government work! Again...don't reinstall the original injectors....just something much closer to their original size)

Levi Kragt

My main plan is to have a local shop that I'm good buddies with the owner to do my intake gaskets and clean up everything. They said they'd do the throttle body and everything up.from.the intake manifold for 300 bucks, i think that's a pretty good deal. Once that's done, I plan to drive it up to TPIS. I personally believe that since have an APFR, the 28 lbs will be fine. And I'd rather not spend $400 on injectors. I wish I could do the mini ram or superram or something but I can't find where to buy it, etc etc. Plus I really like the look of TPI.

Levi Kragt

A reply to myself, I found these on FIC, https://fuelinjectorconnection.com/c...sch-design-iii
Are these any good? I dont think i mentioned, my car is leaking at every single gasket above the intake manifold, runner to plenum, runner to intake manifold, plenum to throttle body, i bought the gaskets already, i suppose i best get those injectors eh? Will those be fine for my goal of 300whp? Im starting to better understand all this.

GREGGPENN

Tons of people have installed B3's from FIC. (Should find lots of posts from users in this forum). Seems like a remember SOME years needing a tweak (slightly modified injector) vs this one...to avoid tuning. Don't remember the situation/years but you could call FIC. THEY would know. Jon (and his son) are very upfront/helpful.

Also...Leaky intake means you don't really KNOW how well your 28lber's are doing. Don't tune until problems are resolved.

I thought about suggesting a AFPR and lowering pressure to "adjust" your injectors downward. Ask Jon this question..... My concern would be atomization at idle/lower rpms. Might be perfectly OK....but it's worth asking. Often, you are better off with higher-than-stock pressure using smaller injectors...just for the aspect of atomization, tip-in response, and mpg. May mean more to mpg than anything though. I'm using injectors that don't atomize quite as well as stock Multecs w/o problem. I chose them partially because they could be polished -- like the rest of my intake. If someone else doesn't chime in first, I might do the math to figure how low pressure would need to be to get them down in the 22-24 range.

Levi Kragt

Got it! I'll have them regasket it, then see how she does, I'll update yall once thats in order. I might even make a new thread, since its no longer about horsepower and now about running right! Im hoping to get better mpgs, i only get about 16 highway as it sits, and id really really like more.

aklim

That is a good deal if he is doing what I think he is doing and taking the time to follow proper procedures. The key word is "IF"

It has been said that too large a fuel injector may be harder to tune at lower rpm ranges. Fuel pressure regulator makes an overall change not pin point. Sure, you can use a mallet to drive in a small trim nail but it is harder.

About $200 for a reman set.

Doesn't TPIS sell the Miniram or something pops up on eBay with the Superram?

aklim

I would if I needed 22 pph. Will they remove the IAC and the IAC housing for cleaning?

aklim

IDK More power, more wasted fuel. So unless you want to drive it like you have an egg between the right foot and the gas pedal, you will waste fuel. If you do, what is the point of the work? I'm only concerned about the mpg because it is one of the indicators that something is wrong

ryank9398

Are those 113s going to support 300 wheel hp with a long runner or are you going to need to turn 5500+rpm to get there? You should be aware that if you are paying for reconditioning heads and porting, 2.00/1.55 valves, at a certain point you exceed the cost of a nice set of new castings. Your good condition 113s will be worth a few hundred bucks to someone else to help with the cost of new ones. I would actually suggest just keeping them on the car and focus on the awesome torque you're going to make. A nice set of 1.6 ratio roller rockers will help and are easy to install. I keep saying we TPI ppl need to talk in terms of torque, there will be less number envy.

mtwoolford

Stock cam = stock numbers. Sorry. Get a cam which will support the numbers you're looking for and work out from there.

856SPEED

I would say 230 rwhp before tune; 240rwhp after tune (if a successful tune). 10rwhp after a dyno tune would be good considering there is not much in improvements from a performance standpoint with these parts. I would concentrate on the drive ability issues first and foremost.

cv67

Sell the 113s
Pm tpi421vette for a set of AFR180 heads
256/264 type cam
Headers
port the base as much as possible. Not a gasket match but really ported well through out. Ported plenums dont really do anything but easy and wont hurt
Whatever TB you have.

It will feel like a mild 383

Did this with a friends IROC with that crappy 2xx rear gear car was an $800 10:1 shortblock...crapy edelbrock performer heads, "256" cam...couldnt believe how hard it pulled 2nd gear. 1st just went up in smoke, passed Ca smog.

Torque will be outstanding.

65Z01

My prior '88 was running stock injectors with an AFPR so I could tune fuel on a WOT pull to get ~12.5:1 ration on the dyno.
I ran stock headers with improved exhaust after that, 160deg T-stat (important for ~10chp) and the usual air intake mods. Though I ran a 52mm TB. Had a base timing of 8dbtdc and TPS set to ~.75Vdc at idle. Dyno showed ~450rwhp which agreed with trap speed calculated ~300chp, for an A4 with ~17%dt loss.

If you keep those injectors an AFPR might allow you to reduce FP enough to get a nice tune at idle as well as WOT.
Remember that your ECM will try to maintain stoch A/F ratio by using the O2 sensor for light throttle and steady driving but not at WOT.

GREGGPENN

Looks like you'd have to lower FP to the 25-30psi range (to get in the 22-24lb/hr range). 30psi might be OK...Not sure if you'd have any issue if closer to 25.

Typically, people buy an AFPR to run more pressure....which means you might not find any posts on min pressure.

GREGGPENN

You probably meant 250rwhp.