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C4 Auto to manual swap questions

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Old 06-13-2018, 11:33 AM   #21  
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This thread illustrates a point I've tried to make. C4s are consistently under valued by my fellow forum members. This forum is supposedly for C4 lover's, but boy, let anyone ask what a C4 is worth and these self same people will give some low ball figure (a psychiatrist might call this "self hate"). Now here's a guy with $7,000 to spend and he can't find a C4 in his price range. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT THE INCREASING VALUE OF THESE CARS? OH, YOU C4 NAYSAYERS OF LITTLE FAITH?
Part of the problem is that C5s are close to the same you see a lot of people asking for C4s. If I didn't have a vette and I had to chose between spending 9,000 on a C4 6spd or 10,700 c5 6spd, Both cars in good condition. I would buy the C5. The only way the C4 would be tempting is if it were 6-7k, and in good condition.

You can see people asking 9k+ all the time,but do those cars sell? If they're not selling at those prices, they're not worth that much. They're only worth the as much as you can sell them for. I've seen one C4 for sale near me that has been priced about 8-9k, and it's been for sale for over 3 years now. It's not worth as much as they're asking.

There was another dealer that had a C5 in similar condition, but was asking 17,000. They tried selling it for a year or longer, and couldn't. Then there was a 2001 for sale that was in really good condition other than it needed an AC compressor, and the radio wiring repaired. It has the Z51 option, 6spd, leather seats, and they were asking about 10,700. That car was on the lot for about 2 days before it was sold. They were asking the blue book value of the car where most others were asking above that.

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Old 06-13-2018, 01:01 PM   #22  
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If I didn't have a vette and I had to chose between spending 9,000 on a C4 6spd or 10,700 c5 6spd, Both cars in good condition. I would buy the C5. The only way the C4 would be tempting is if it were 6-7k, and in good condition.
However that $10K C5 6 speed might be nearing the end of its clutch life. So unless you can do your own work on a C5 that 10K car just became a 12K car due to the labor involved in removing the rear transaxle, torque tub etc to get to the clutch and putting it back in. (based on Googling what it costs to do a C5 clutch).

Before I bought my '96 I was looking at C5's, but most of them had 80K plus miles on them and getting to the point of needing maintenance.

I really would have liked a C5 manual FRC but....

Now I see the prices on C5's are dropping drastically. There is an older guy local to me that bought a '93 and is suffering buyer's remorse. He said he would sell if for the 12K he paid for it, but due to the weather stripping all being dried out and rotten, plus other stuff, I just didn't have the heart to tell him he wouldn't get much over 8K for it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:41 PM   #23  
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However that $10K C5 6 speed might be nearing the end of its clutch life. So unless you can do your own work on a C5 that 10K car just became a 12K car due to the labor involved in removing the rear transaxle, torque tub etc to get to the clutch and putting it back in. (based on Googling what it costs to do a C5 clutch).

Before I bought my '96 I was looking at C5's, but most of them had 80K plus miles on them and getting to the point of needing maintenance.

I really would have liked a C5 manual FRC but....

Now I see the prices on C5's are dropping drastically. There is an older guy local to me that bought a '93 and is suffering buyer's remorse. He said he would sell if for the 12K he paid for it, but due to the weather stripping all being dried out and rotten, plus other stuff, I just didn't have the heart to tell him he wouldn't get much over 8K for it.
Clutches are easy for me to change. On my 93 I can change the clutch in 2-4 hours start to finish. I haven't had to change the clutch on a C5 yet, but it's not going to be very hard. It was more work to make the wiring harness for the LS Swap in my 93 than it has ever been to change a clutch.

80k+ miles doesn't mean it needs maintenance, but you should inspect things.

I'm not the average person when it comes to cars. Most people wouldn't take the LT1 out of a C4, and replace it with an LSx because the only place it had gunk was the oil pickup that cause bearing failure. If you believe the odometer the car has about 66k miles on it. I've had more problems with the 93 than I've ever had with cars in good shape, even with 150k+ miles.

After buying the 93 that seemed to be in good shape part after part failed, and other than the bearings the engine looked to be in near new condition.

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Old 06-13-2018, 03:16 PM   #24  
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I haven't had to change the clutch on a C5 yet, but it's not going to be very hard.
As long as you have a lift and transmission jack(s), etc. You can do it without a lift as long as you can get the car 2 feet up. Then entire rear driveline has to come out.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...cing-cost.html

https://tech.corvettecentral.com/201...-installation/
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:36 PM   #25  
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As long as you have a lift and transmission jack(s), etc. You can do it without a lift as long as you can get the car 2 feet up. Then entire rear driveline has to come out./
I used an LS7 clutch kit for my LSx swap. I got the flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, flywheel bolts, pressure plate bolts, for around $500. All GM Parts. I don't care for cost numbers posted in threads. As for what that link says to remove it's what I expected it to be.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:55 PM   #26  
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C4s are consistently under valued by my fellow forum members.

I've noticed this on all car forums. The regulars tend to undervalue the market. I'm convinced these "I'd only pay XXX..." are based on their perception of value for a car they don't need or particularly want, and would offer that price only because it would be a smokiin' deal if they DID want that particular car.


Over the years my experience has been that I've tended to have to pay more than the "forum regulars" predict for a car that I DO want to own. Ie, the difference in price between the "forum opinion prices" and what it takes to actually own it is based on DESIRE.


I have a 2-tone blue 85 4+3, 53,000 miles that I bought new. 6 NCRS Top Flight Awards, and a 5-Star Crossed Flags for Originality. Incredible as-born condition. It needs nothing. It is not really for sale, but would take a little over twice the OP's budget to get me to consider selling it. My point is that values may be increasing because owners like myself that have desirable cars aren't actively marketing them, and that if/when we do, prospective buyers recognize the opportunity and will pay a price commensurate with the condition and rarity of the find.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:28 PM   #27  
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a little over twice the OP's budget
.....

Will buy a reasonably nice 96 LT4 car, or a 96 LT1 with less than 12,000 miles. Unfortunately, most folks are buying for performance, or performance potential. Spending almost or over 14,000 for a car that needs a bunch more 1000's to even get close to a 94/95 let alone a C5 turns people off.

Sentimental value doesn't equate to cash in a market that is being flooded with C4 Corvettes of all persuasions and starting to see C5's drop down there also.

I know mine, as nice as it is, and all the parts I have won't recoup the investment I have in it. Same with a lot of folks on the forum.

Back in 2016 there was a car sitting on a local car lot (an LT1, I don't remember the year) that was caged, had over 25,000 into the motor and was priced at a little over 10K. I didn't go get it at the time because it wouldn't have passed emissions. It would have needed to be inspected to get the title switched. The dealership was in another county though that didn't have emissions inspections.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:44 PM   #28  
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.....

Will buy a reasonably nice 96 LT4 car, or a 96 LT1 with less than 12,000 miles.
So says another internet forum price expert. I know of a LT1 96 Collector Coupe (red interior) for exactly that price. But it has 45,000 miles. Original Owner, needs a through cleaning, but fairly original, owned by an NCRS guy that values originality in his cars the way I do. I posit the car I describe is a better value at the same price as a C/L find 12,000 mile car that has been "had" by every corvette-flipper in the country over the past few years.




PS: I spent some time this afternoon reviewing BringATrailer prices and stories for C4's. Very enlightening reading. Particularly regarding ZR-1 pricing and recent sale prices. The most credible prices I've seen on any source. Worth a look.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:33 PM   #29  
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PS.

I bought a 1 owner 96 LT1 for a little over 2 times the OP's budget that had, drum roll please..... 11,800 miles on it. I watch Craigslist every day, looking for bargains. That is how I found my ZR1 replica wheels, new in the box for $400.00 and a LT4 Hot Cam, new in the shipping tube for $175.00.

I know what I am talking about price wise. The 85 that I posted about has 58,000 miles and they couldn't give it away for 6800 all winter and spring. The market is absolutely flooded with C4's. There are M6 LT1 cars around here sitting for months that are priced around 12,000 and a 1996 LT4 M6 just north of me that needs a little work for 6000.00.

Take a look on autotrader at all the low mileage C4's that aren't selling. The folks that have money are going newer and the folks that don't either don't care about Corvettes or look for the most bang for the buck.

Lately there are a bunch of C2's showing up for sale on Craigslist around the country. It seems that older Corvettes, regardless of vintage are being sold off.

One thing we all have to face is that the people that are into hot rodding, more performance oriented (read that ride a bit harder, need worked on) are getting older. I am 61 and when I go to the Corvette club meetings and look around, they are all old people. Let that sink in, a 61 year old being one of the youngest in the club.

So yes, since my morning routine consists of looking at C4 listings around the country before getting moving, I can say I know a little about what prices are at, especially when you see the same cars being relisted month after month after month and not being sold.

It would take that one in a million person who just has to have the car to pay that price otherwise it is what it is, a 33 year old car. Mine is what it is, a 22 year old car. All of us here that own C4's, the newest is 22 years old. Most people are concerned about cars that are that old.

Last edited by drcook; 06-13-2018 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:39 PM   #30  
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If case someone misunderstood. I like the C4. Mine needs works. I have a lot planned for it, but I can't afford to work on it right now. It's needs a transmission, paint, interior work, wiring repair, and new bushings. Eventually it will get all of that. As for everyone being old, it's not true. Maybe that club it is, but in general it's not. You're not going to convince me that 31 is old. My car is almost as old as I am.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:00 PM   #31  
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I have acquired a respect and like for the C4's also. With a big enough war chest a REALLY nice car can be built using one as a basis.

To get back to the original premise of this thread, converting an auto to a manual.

I really would like to do this, but the reality of life is that I have a bum right hand and some days shifting is a chore. As such I have come to the conclusion that I will need to stick in a Dana 44 and have the 4l60E built to handle the horsepower that I am accumulating parts to bring the engine up to.

Debating is fun isn't it ? We all have our opinions and for the most part, I truly believe that most everyone on this forum would actually like the other folks on the forum if they actually met.

In NE Ohio, most Corvette owners are older than their 40's or 50's. Mostly older. When I was at Carlisle last year, I did notice it was the younger crowd from the east coast that drove the newer cars. There is a wage disparity between the rust belt and the east coast.

As regarding prices, this is an example of what is available close to Ohio, an M6 1993 with 11,700 miles on it for $13,500

https://erie.craigslist.org/cto/d/19...616061720.html

Last edited by drcook; 06-14-2018 at 08:29 AM.
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