damage driving from roof out?
#21
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Here is some reading for you, and you should read it all, carefully....
Here are comments from a structural/chassis engineer from the project from the book, The Newest Corvette, from A to Z51....
Here are comments from a structural/chassis engineer from the project from the book, The Newest Corvette, from A to Z51....
The following 2 users liked this post by Tom400CFI:
Benny42 (07-14-2018),
Mr. Peabody (07-20-2018)
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
How did you come to that conclusion? Many in this thread have told you that it won't harm the car. GM themselves ran countless engineering calc's, built models to test the structure, and then validated it with over a million miles of testing -in some pretty unfavorable conditions. These cars are now 22-34 years old...yet there isn't any reported damage from roofs off. No cars have been totaled due to no-roof-running. I think that your conclusion is folly.
You're guess is right about this, but you needn't guess....Dave McLellan, the head engineer for the car admits that straight up, in his book. He literally explained the loss of structural rigidity (not the same as "strength") in both objective terms (structural frequency) and subjective terms and he talks about the structural roll of the roof as it relates to stiffness (not the same as "strength"). Finally, he expressed his disappointment in the end result.
If you want a roof brace for ride quality reasons....go for it. But you're not preventing damage to your car.
You're guess is right about this, but you needn't guess....Dave McLellan, the head engineer for the car admits that straight up, in his book. He literally explained the loss of structural rigidity (not the same as "strength") in both objective terms (structural frequency) and subjective terms and he talks about the structural roll of the roof as it relates to stiffness (not the same as "strength"). Finally, he expressed his disappointment in the end result.
If you want a roof brace for ride quality reasons....go for it. But you're not preventing damage to your car.
Sorry man, I didnt mean to offend, please accept my apology for doing so.
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
WOW thank you for taking the time post this.. Im going straight to amazon to make an attempt at purching this book,. I have Mcleans book but this goes into much more detail than his... thank you, this was very kind of you.
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
It probably looks better in person but Id have to respray it.. too much $$$..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/C-4-CORVETTE-TARGA-ROOF-BRACE/142859211283?hash=item2143129213%3Ag%3AY cIAAOSwknJX1Wt3&_sacat=0&_nkw=corvette+b race&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m5 70.l1313.TR9.TRC0.A0.H0.Xcorvette+brac.T RS1
Last edited by barchetta1; 07-14-2018 at 12:26 PM.
#25
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
You're welcome.
You didn't offend me, and I don't think you're crazy. I think the notion of the car being damaged by driving w/the roof off (a mode the car was designed and tested to do) is a bit crazy, however. It would be similar to thinking that using the brakes might damage the car. Or opening the doors. Or anything you do with a car. The car was designed to do it...so why would doing it, damage it? It won't and fussing about it is pointless worrying that is worthless. I'm don't say that to criticize...I say it like that, hopeful that you'll no longer worry about that which isn't worth worrying about.
You didn't offend me, and I don't think you're crazy. I think the notion of the car being damaged by driving w/the roof off (a mode the car was designed and tested to do) is a bit crazy, however. It would be similar to thinking that using the brakes might damage the car. Or opening the doors. Or anything you do with a car. The car was designed to do it...so why would doing it, damage it? It won't and fussing about it is pointless worrying that is worthless. I'm don't say that to criticize...I say it like that, hopeful that you'll no longer worry about that which isn't worth worrying about.
#26
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You're welcome.
You didn't offend me, and I don't think you're crazy. I think the notion of the car being damaged by driving w/the roof off (a mode the car was designed and tested to do) is a bit crazy, however. It would be similar to thinking that using the brakes might damage the car. Or opening the doors. Or anything you do with a car. The car was designed to do it...so why would doing it, damage it? It won't and fussing about it is pointless worrying that is worthless. I'm don't say that to criticize...I say it like that, hopeful that you'll no longer worry about that which isn't worth worrying about.
You didn't offend me, and I don't think you're crazy. I think the notion of the car being damaged by driving w/the roof off (a mode the car was designed and tested to do) is a bit crazy, however. It would be similar to thinking that using the brakes might damage the car. Or opening the doors. Or anything you do with a car. The car was designed to do it...so why would doing it, damage it? It won't and fussing about it is pointless worrying that is worthless. I'm don't say that to criticize...I say it like that, hopeful that you'll no longer worry about that which isn't worth worrying about.
Personally Im working on treating others with some kindness.. I used to be a real jerk and working to change that.
Having said all that; Im going to stop in and get my wheels balanced and hope the millennial's jack up my car properly and not crush the glass structure. Used to have a truck to bring them in but the wife has that now and we are separated. Life is just one challenge after another.
EDIT: an I need to have them check the run out of the tires.. brand new continentals so those should be covered.
Thanks.
Last edited by barchetta1; 07-14-2018 at 01:07 PM.
#27
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I guess I'm still a jerk. even though I posted all that good info for ya!
#28
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
#29
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
if you should find time to post the next page of "newest corvette" Id be grateful.. it was just getting good!
#30
Le Mans Master
Last edited by Cruisinfanatic; 07-14-2018 at 02:30 PM.
#31
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 07-14-2018 at 07:53 PM.
#32
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Where Woke Goes to Die
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one minute and 5 seconds is too long?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtEC...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtEC...ature=youtu.be
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
#34
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
If you read the pages posted on here you see that they had to do a bolt in roof to maintain integrity. Clearly, while he doesnt come out and say it, the car is just not strong with the roof out. I get the idea the engineers shot for "safe" and nothing more.. not by choice but because it was directed to build a targa after they had planned on a t top the whole time.
This is why I really dont think its wise to drive all of the time with the roof out of a 22 yr+ old car. The resins are slowly drying out and fiberglass becoming brittle. Just my opinion. If I can stabilize my car I'll drive it that way and avoid being aggressive.. right now it shakes badly at 60mph... which is usually a out of balance tire.. I also wonder if my original shocks could cause it. I suppose they too would exaggerate anything not perfect.
#35
Le Mans Master
I agree. Its also a bit unnerving because Im worried im going to damage the paint on the car.. granted, most of the roof is plastic it still, if dropped could damage the paint on the car. Not only as your remove/install but if you want to stow it in the hatch.
If you read the pages posted on here you see that they had to do a bolt in roof to maintain integrity. Clearly, while he doesnt come out and say it, the car is just not strong with the roof out. I get the idea the engineers shot for "safe" and nothing more.. not by choice but because it was directed to build a targa after they had planned on a t top the whole time.
This is why I really dont think its wise to drive all of the time with the roof out of a 22 yr+ old car. The resins are slowly drying out and fiberglass becoming brittle. Just my opinion. If I can stabilize my car I'll drive it that way and avoid being aggressive.. right now it shakes badly at 60mph... which is usually a out of balance tire.. I also wonder if my original shocks could cause it. I suppose they too would exaggerate anything not perfect.
If you read the pages posted on here you see that they had to do a bolt in roof to maintain integrity. Clearly, while he doesnt come out and say it, the car is just not strong with the roof out. I get the idea the engineers shot for "safe" and nothing more.. not by choice but because it was directed to build a targa after they had planned on a t top the whole time.
This is why I really dont think its wise to drive all of the time with the roof out of a 22 yr+ old car. The resins are slowly drying out and fiberglass becoming brittle. Just my opinion. If I can stabilize my car I'll drive it that way and avoid being aggressive.. right now it shakes badly at 60mph... which is usually a out of balance tire.. I also wonder if my original shocks could cause it. I suppose they too would exaggerate anything not perfect.
I don't understand what you think is unsafe
Get a hatch vent and the turbulence and buffeting is substantially eliminated
When is the last time you read of a crash because the roof was out?
#36
Le Mans Master
#37
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Did you know that the C4 is twice as STIFF, in torsion as the C3 was? Are C3's becoming damaged from driving them? No, they're not...and their "resins and fiberglass" is even older. "More brittle" is a dubious claim, however. You know how many old fiberglass boats there are running around that are OLD and not becoming damaged?
#38
Safety Car
The c4 is sheet molded plastic not fiber glass . I have a C3 and not afraid to take tops off. If more people complained GM would have design something more flexible in the C4 Coup! My question what is the way to resolve the flexing> Also with C4 tops on never shook since new,no rattles I am happy and still have my coup.
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You worry about way too much. Don't you think if your worry about damage happening were founded, it would be discussed on this forum EVERY DAY?
I don't understand what you think is unsafe
Get a hatch vent and the turbulence and buffeting is substantially eliminated
When is the last time you read of a crash because the roof was out?
I don't understand what you think is unsafe
Get a hatch vent and the turbulence and buffeting is substantially eliminated
When is the last time you read of a crash because the roof was out?
You are right.. I need to quite worrying about ever freaking thing in my life. I feel like this is a therapy group