Confused about "Manual/Auto Transmission" flag in .bin def - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > C4 Corvettes, 1984 - 1996 > C4 Tech/Performance
Reload this Page >

Confused about "Manual/Auto Transmission" flag in .bin def

Notices
C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Confused about "Manual/Auto Transmission" flag in .bin def

Old 07-12-2018, 07:00 PM
  #1  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Confused about "Manual/Auto Transmission" flag in .bin def

I recently got a decent tune for my modified '86 ($32b binary), but the car thinks it has an automatic transmission instead of a 4+3, which results in the overdrive kicking in and out incorrectly (and not able to be controlled via the shifter button). While the tuner is willing to make that change no problem, he's busy and I'm busy, and it seems like something I should be able to fix easily (I have all the hardware for making eeproms, plus TunerPro -- I was working on my own tune but got out of my comfort zone).

Anyway, I was looking through the definitions and TunerPro says "Manual/Auto Transmission, X = Manual " for one of the flags. Since the box wasn't checked, I assumed that meant it was set for auto. What complicates things though is that *EVERY* .bin file I looked at did not have this flag set, including ones that claimed to be for the 4+3. So should the flag be set for manual?

If that's not the right thing to set, then what is?

Thanks.
[RICHR]

Last edited by rrubel; 10-06-2018 at 06:27 PM.
rrubel is offline  
Old 07-12-2018, 09:58 PM
  #2  
scorp508
CF Senior Member
 
scorp508's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 83,142
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Yes, the base ABTB program for a 4+3 1987 with a $32b program has 'X' for the auto/manual flag. Looking at some old notes here is a list of what I have down for factory 1986 Corvette tunes. I don't claim it to be right or all inclusive but maybe you can compare to the ones you've found.

AANL 1986
Auto
3.07
Iron Heads

AANM 1986 (Superseded by AANL)
Auto
3.04 / 2.73
Iron Heads

AMA 1986
Stick, MK2
3.07
Iron Head
Europe Export

AMJ 1986
Stick, MK2
3.07
Iron Head

BUA 1986 (9340 superseded by 1728)
Auto
3.07
Japan Export

Last edited by scorp508; 07-12-2018 at 09:59 PM.
scorp508 is offline  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:08 PM
  #3  
scorp508
CF Senior Member
 
scorp508's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 83,142
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Attaching a couple files you may or may not already have. One is supposedly a print-out of the ABTC 32b program itself and the other is a 32b XDF definition file I made for TunerPro. It adds a lot more items than found in the traditional 32b definitions. I used the PDF to find/add many of the items in the extended definition.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf
$32b_HAC.pdf (272.1 KB, 24 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip
32B-ExtendedVersion.zip (12.3 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by scorp508; 07-12-2018 at 10:09 PM.
scorp508 is offline  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:52 PM
  #4  
tequilaboy
CF Senior Member
 
tequilaboy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Lakeville MI
Posts: 2,287
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts

Default

You can't just drop in a $32b 4+3 bin into an 86 car and expect the 4+3 to work properly. The switch wiring and hardware are different. The 86 has no first gear switch and the shifter switch is on a different pin compared to an 87-88 car.

The simplest solution and likely best compromise is to run an 86 $32 bin in your 86 car, but you can re-pin the shifter switch or reprogram a $32B bin to read the shifter switch on the current pin if you know what you are doing. With either method, the $32B bin still won't know when the car is in first gear, since the first gear switch is lacking so it will behave like a 4+4, if that is acceptable.

If you are willing to search, I've posted info on this topic including the pin out differences.

If your tuner is incompetent, and you don't want to re-pin the switch, post your bin here and I will fix it for you assuming it is a proper 4+3 bin.

Updated with 86 vs 87-88 ecm pin differences for reference.

86 ecm pins:
M/T O/D Shifter switch: C8
O/D TCC Control: A7
A/T O/D switch: C7 (open in OD,N,R or P)

87-88 ecm pins:
M/T O/D Shifter switch: C7
O/D TCC Control: A7
M/T 1st gear switch: C8
A/T O/D switch: C7 (open in OD,N,R or P)

1986 4+3 cars should repin from C8 to C7 in order to use an 87-88 4+3 bin and maintain shifter switch functionality.

Last edited by tequilaboy; 07-13-2018 at 08:46 PM.
tequilaboy is online now  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:16 AM
  #5  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Somehow I missed that about the pins in one of your earlier posts.

Tuner isn't incompetent, as far as I know (the car runs well, given the constraints he had, like still unable to get ALDL output), just very busy and more interested in OBDII cars than MEMCAL ones . Here's the binary; I appreciate your taking a look at it. If you see anything else that seems whacky or questionable, please let me know...

Thanks
[RICHR]

Originally Posted by tequilaboy View Post
You can't just drop in a $32b 4+3 bin into an 86 car and expect the 4+3 to work properly. The switch wiring and hardware are different. The 86 has no first gear switch and the shifter switch is on a different pin compared to an 87-88 car.

The simplest solution and likely best compromise is to run an 86 $32 bin in your 86 car, but you can re-pin the shifter switch or reprogram a $32B bin to read the shifter switch on the current pin if you know what you are doing. With either method, the $32B bin still won't know when the car is in first gear, since the first gear switch is lacking so it will behave like a 4+4, if that is acceptable.

If you are willing to search, I've posted info on this topic including the pin out differences.

If your tuner is incompetent, and you don't want to re-pin the switch, post your bin here and I will fix it for you assuming it is a proper 4+3 bin.

Updated with 86 vs 87-88 ecm pin differences for reference.

86 ecm pins:
M/T O/D Shifter switch: C8
O/D TCC Control: A7
A/T O/D switch: C7 (open in OD,N,R or P)

87-88 ecm pins:
M/T O/D Shifter switch: C7
O/D TCC Control: A7
M/T 1st gear switch: C8
A/T O/D switch: C7 (open in OD,N,R or P)

1986 4+3 cars should repin from C8 to C7 in order to use an 87-88 4+3 bin and maintain shifter switch functionality.
Attached Files
File Type: bin
RR_Latest4_10_18.bin (16.0 KB, 2 views)
rrubel is offline  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:56 AM
  #6  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks as well for your posts; I'm still digesting the files you attached.
[RICHR]

Originally Posted by scorp508 View Post
Yes, the base ABTB program for a 4+3 1987 with a $32b program has 'X' for the auto/manual flag. Looking at some old notes here is a list of what I have down for factory 1986 Corvette tunes. I don't claim it to be right or all inclusive but maybe you can compare to the ones you've found.
rrubel is offline  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:20 AM
  #7  
tequilaboy
CF Senior Member
 
tequilaboy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Lakeville MI
Posts: 2,287
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts

Default

The bin posted appears to be a 1986 $32 mask bin, not an 87-88 $32B mask bin. Origin is unknown due to non-standard prom-id (2063). Appears to be an auto trans bin based on flag and strange settings for anything 4+3 related.

Suggest starting over with an actual 4+3 bin. $32 or $32B is up to you and each has its merits. Don't repin anything until you decide on which approach to follow.

Danger Will Robinson!: This bin has restricted max MAF flow vs rpm and also very lean PE and strange PE entry settings, it may have started life as a 305 f-body auto bin...hard to say, but I wouldn't even drive it as-is.

Last edited by tequilaboy; 07-14-2018 at 11:37 AM.
tequilaboy is online now  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:58 PM
  #8  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tequilaboy View Post
The bin posted appears to be a 1986 $32 mask bin, not an 87-88 $32B mask bin. Origin is unknown due to non-standard prom-id (2063). Appears to be an auto trans bin based on flag and strange settings for anything 4+3 related.

Suggest starting over with an actual 4+3 bin. $32 or $32B is up to you and each has its merits. Don't repin anything until you decide on which approach to follow.

Danger Will Robinson!: This bin has restricted max MAF flow vs rpm and also very lean PE and strange PE entry settings, it may have started life as a 305 f-body auto bin...hard to say, but I wouldn't even drive it as-is.
Interesting. The car actually runs better with this bin (other than the transmission issue) than with any other tune I've tried. I *think* this one started as a mail-order tune before my current guy worked on it; I had thought it was $32b but if you say it's not, then it's not...

I recall from an earlier thread that you mentioned the $32 bin has issues with ALDL communications; is that the primary reason to switch to $32b? Or are there others? And would it be easier to change the $32b bin to recognize the '86 pinouts, or change the pinouts to match the bin?

I'm considering dumping this whole ECU and switching to one of the systems that lets you use an LS computer instead (mostly for ease of tuning), but it'll be a while until I can get those parts together and I was hoping to drive this thing in the meantime.

Thanks.
[RICHR]
rrubel is offline  
Old 07-14-2018, 03:04 PM
  #9  
tequilaboy
CF Senior Member
 
tequilaboy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Lakeville MI
Posts: 2,287
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts

Default

Here's a text export of your bin (created with one of my old $32 xdf files) for reference.

Regarding $32 vs $32B: 8192 baud ALDL logging results are a mixed bag depending upon tools and setup. For me, $32B has always been easier to log, but logging with $32 at 8192 baud is at least possible with the right tools/setup.

Several ways to go: If you can get a normal $32 bin to log at 8192 baud in your car, that would be the best match for your 4+3 hardware. If not, you can try one of my corrected 86 bins such as BUB_8192 which should offer improved connectivity.

$32B will work and may offer better support (depending upon tooner), but $32B will always be a bit funky without a first gear switch, but I've got another old cobbled up solution to this problem if you want to go there. Re-pin, or bin correction for the shifter switch input should result in the same behavior either way. For me, its easier to fix the bin then re-pin the switch, but both are easily done.
Attached Files
File Type: txt
RR_bin_export.txt (26.7 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by tequilaboy; 07-14-2018 at 03:07 PM.
tequilaboy is online now  
Old 07-14-2018, 04:19 PM
  #10  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks again. I actually have that BUB_8192 bin, I think from when we were last discussing my car issues. So if I use that as a starting point and modify it with the spark advance and other changes from my other bin, that should be closer to what I need?

As long as the car starts with auto O/D off (ie, only controlled by the switch), which is my preferred behavior (I tend to switch in/out of OD with the clutch depressed to reduce shock to the DN unit), no first-gear switch shouldn't matter.

[RICHR]

Originally Posted by tequilaboy View Post
Here's a text export of your bin (created with one of my old $32 xdf files) for reference.

Regarding $32 vs $32B: 8192 baud ALDL logging results are a mixed bag depending upon tools and setup. For me, $32B has always been easier to log, but logging with $32 at 8192 baud is at least possible with the right tools/setup.

Several ways to go: If you can get a normal $32 bin to log at 8192 baud in your car, that would be the best match for your 4+3 hardware. If not, you can try one of my corrected 86 bins such as BUB_8192 which should offer improved connectivity.

$32B will work and may offer better support (depending upon tooner), but $32B will always be a bit funky without a first gear switch, but I've got another old cobbled up solution to this problem if you want to go there. Re-pin, or bin correction for the shifter switch input should result in the same behavior either way. For me, its easier to fix the bin then re-pin the switch, but both are easily done.
rrubel is offline  
Old 07-21-2018, 04:48 PM
  #11  
tequilaboy
CF Senior Member
 
tequilaboy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Lakeville MI
Posts: 2,287
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts

Default

Any progress? Choice of $32 or $32B is up to you, but I would think that an 86 $32 bin with O/D programmed off by default would be your best compromise, assuming you can log 8192 baud with it. At least the 4+3 control will work as intended without the first gear switch and current shifter switch wiring.

For me, 8192 baud logging and proper 4+3 control (albeit with modified settings according to my taste and gearing) are both important. Since both are achievable, why compromise?
tequilaboy is online now  
Old 07-24-2018, 05:36 PM
  #12  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Sorry, nothing to report yet. Been slammed with stuff at home lately (upcoming vacation, son heading off to college, daughter heading off to grad school, house projects, wife wanting actual attention , etc).

[RICHR]

Originally Posted by tequilaboy View Post
Any progress? Choice of $32 or $32B is up to you, but I would think that an 86 $32 bin with O/D programmed off by default would be your best compromise, assuming you can log 8192 baud with it. At least the 4+3 control will work as intended without the first gear switch and current shifter switch wiring.

For me, 8192 baud logging and proper 4+3 control (albeit with modified settings according to my taste and gearing) are both important. Since both are achievable, why compromise?
rrubel is offline  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:15 PM
  #13  
rrubel
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
rrubel's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Glen Burnie MD
Posts: 967
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tequilaboy View Post
Any progress? Choice of $32 or $32B is up to you, but I would think that an 86 $32 bin with O/D programmed off by default would be your best compromise, assuming you can log 8192 baud with it. At least the 4+3 control will work as intended without the first gear switch and current shifter switch wiring.

For me, 8192 baud logging and proper 4+3 control (albeit with modified settings according to my taste and gearing) are both important. Since both are achievable, why compromise?
Not sure if you're still following this since it's been a while, but I've gotten time to start playing. I still can't get the ALDL to work right, but I'm about to try a different laptop (long story I'll spare you).

I've also taken a $32 stock 86 bin and used that as the basis for what I'm working with. I did a major comparison between the stock bin, the mail-order custom tune, and the one I just got, and took bits of each one as a starting point. I did use the MAF and A/F settings from the newest bin, because the car starts and idles best with those vs stock and mail-order.

[RICHR]
rrubel is offline  


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Confused about "Manual/Auto Transmission" flag in .bin def


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: