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IDK if that is fleet repair policy or not. I'd have to look closer. I know a tech at MB got fired for "too many returns" so not sure how that works. IF you are right, it sounds like an "insert credit card and drop off car" deal where it might be fixed sometime or maybe not. Maybe the techs are failed psychologists? You lay on the couch for an hour and maybe it will fix you, maybe not. If not, come back again but pay again?
No, it was a since you have 2 days off get the truck fixed before you blow it up. I ain't working on company **** anymore. No one else does. I'll rotate the tires and do the brakes if it needs it. That's about it. Anything more involved and it gets dropped off and I'm paying with a company card. The first exchange was great, ~250$ for both the lines and I don't have to lay on the ground at 0 degrees? Hell yea I'm going to do that. And then a week later it started leaking again. All I can say is I know a place that no longer does our fleet service... even though it was only 5 trucks that was still regular business doing about 30k a year on each of them.
There is also out and out dishonesty in the techs. My wife bought me a good diagnostic scanner when we purchased our Duramax 4x4. I picked up that 2 of the injectors were running out of spec. Took it in under warranty, had them replaced. Took it home, hooked up the scanner, still running out of spec.
Took it back, they were replaced under warranty again. Subsequently found out the tech was billing for work and never doing it. He was fired.
There is also out and out dishonesty in the techs. My wife bought me a good diagnostic scanner when we purchased our Duramax 4x4. I picked up that 2 of the injectors were running out of spec. Took it in under warranty, had them replaced. Took it home, hooked up the scanner, still running out of spec.
Took it back, they were replaced under warranty again. Subsequently found out the tech was billing for work and never doing it. He was fired.
And people think I am over the top wanting to watch them work. Even if I have to stand outside with field glasses, I'd do that. I may have to have you work on my stuff but I don't have to and prefer not to have blind trust.
There was another Chrysler dealership here (long since out of business) that got caught for out and out fraud. A man (accompanied by his lawyer) dropped his car off and went over to the mall parking lot across the street. Watched them put the car out back. Went across the street, picked up car. Took car back close to closing time. Went in to get car and were presented with a bill.
The lawyer presented them with a lawsuit. I never did hear how much it cost them.
I got a service writer fired over saying there was nothing wrong with a Bronco I had bought under warranty. A front bearing was coming apart. I took it straight to a Goodyear store where I knew the manager and they inspected it. I took it back to them on a tow truck. The next day I out on a suit and tie, slipped into the owner's son's office and explained the situation. The shop manager was summoned. He was all in a tizzy. I told him and the son it wasn't "their" fault, they didn't need to babysit their employees constantly.
I got a service writer fired over saying there was nothing wrong with a Bronco I had bought under warranty. A front bearing was coming apart. I took it straight to a Goodyear store where I knew the manager and they inspected it. I took it back to them on a tow truck. The next day I out on a suit and tie, slipped into the owner's son's office and explained the situation. The shop manager was summoned. He was all in a tizzy. I told him and the son it wasn't "their" fault, they didn't need to babysit their employees constantly.
The b*tch was gone the next day or so.
No, it WAS, IS and WILL ALWAYS BE their fault. You are my servant, I am the master. Don't matter what you might screw up on my time or whether I ordered you to or you acted on your own. If you are on my clock, I am responsible. I can't simply say "OMG! He did that? I didn't know.". I have always apologized for my employees when it is their fault as soon as I find out. I will do what I can to make it right and settle it with them later. I won't throw the employee under the bus and shoulder the blame if they didn't screw up.
I have had RNs try to BS me about my pain meds. Told them to leave the file there and my wife will look at it. Told them of her qualifications. Suddenly, instead of 6 hours, pain meds came in 30 mins. Later found out that they might have counted the med drawer and don't want to recount till next shift. Moral of the story, "Trust but VERIFY". If it is human or human controlled, it probably needs to be babysat. If I trust them, I verify occasionally to "spot check".
I know it was ultimately their fault as they are the boss. What I meant was that it personally wasn't their fault. They weren't dealing with it, getting it to a tech, turning the wrench, etc.
They both knew it would have been their fault if I had been in an accident with the kids.
Totally. for the rpice of two turbos, you could buy a 350 AND have it installed.
I drove a '92 735i for 6 yrs (water pump at 108k-$70 part, trans fail at 160k-$1300,local shop). Did the 383 swap at 200k. Still driving it at 266k. Probably the last owner serviceable BMW.
There was another Chrysler dealership here (long since out of business) that got caught for out and out fraud. A man (accompanied by his lawyer) dropped his car off and went over to the mall parking lot across the street. Watched them put the car out back. Went across the street, picked up car. Took car back close to closing time. Went in to get car and were presented with a bill.
The lawyer presented them with a lawsuit. I never did hear how much it cost them.
I got a service writer fired over saying there was nothing wrong with a Bronco I had bought under warranty. A front bearing was coming apart. I took it straight to a Goodyear store where I knew the manager and they inspected it. I took it back to them on a tow truck. The next day I out on a suit and tie, slipped into the owner's son's office and explained the situation. The shop manager was summoned. He was all in a tizzy. I told him and the son it wasn't "their" fault, they didn't need to babysit their employees constantly.
The b*tch was gone the next day or so.
I went to a local Crysler/jeep dealer to look at a used jeep they had listed at a good price.
I took it for a test drive and something in the rear sounded awful. I stopped and looked at the wheel to see if something was caught in it and rubbing. I saw the Rotor was broke half it was missing. I told the salesman and h said that it was normal and they had ran the car through their 36 point safety check and it passed. I just got up and walked out. I should have bought it and took it straight t a Chevy dealer across the road to inspect it and then sued them.
I know it was ultimately their fault as they are the boss. What I meant was that it personally wasn't their fault. They weren't dealing with it, getting it to a tech, turning the wrench, etc.
They both knew it would have been their fault if I had been in an accident with the kids.
I have had a couple of managers that would select the more morally questionable people to bend the rules when I was younger and working for them. Only 2 or 3 would be selected and everyone gets the "I know increase in sales helps my standing and would make you more valuable to the unit. That said, I also don't want you to do anything morally questionable to achieve good numbers." speech. A couple would get the "nudge, nudge. Wink, wink" thing and would "get the real message" behind the message. So I'm not totally sure I would discount the idea that the managers didn't know what was happening. Some would ignore it till something blows up and then swear "I didn't know he did that.". I've seen some employees do some morally questionable things with the manager nearby and he pretended to read something while the salesman was going on. Only thing was that sheet of paper was BLANK.
I went to a local Crysler/jeep dealer to look at a used jeep they had listed at a good price.
I took it for a test drive and something in the rear sounded awful. I stopped and looked at the wheel to see if something was caught in it and rubbing. I saw the Rotor was broke half it was missing. I told the salesman and h said that it was normal and they had ran the car through their 36 point safety check and it passed. I just got up and walked out. I should have bought it and took it straight t a Chevy dealer across the road to inspect it and then sued them.
I drove a '92 735i for 6 yrs (water pump at 108k-$70 part, trans fail at 160k-$1300,local shop). Did the 383 swap at 200k. Still driving it at 266k. Probably the last owner serviceable BMW.
Become a DIY'er. That is the theme of this thread. Become your own DIY'er. I guess the other theme is: don't buy modern European cars.
My Mom drove her '08 BMW 535i from Maine to PA for an antique car event. On her way back the car starts leaking oil. How fast? She don't know. Why not? The car don't have no dipstick. Now, dipsticks have been a reliable device for...IDK....100 years or so? But BMW is going to do it better. They put a sensor in the pan that combined with software can "calculate" oil level...then display it on a digital screen inside the car. Brilliant.
That display quit working at the same time the car started leaking so there is no possible way that she could determine her own oil level.
So she has it towed to the nearest Beemer dealer. They diagnose it and tell her that it's the oil filter housing gasket (a very common problem on this car) and that the turbo shaft seals are leaking oil (a very uncommon and unlikely problem on this car). Replacing the two turbos will only cost her $7000.00!! That basically totals the car. What's she going to do?? She needs to get home; does she spend $7k? Or does she risk driving a car home, leaking oil, which she can't monitor the rate of oil leakage?
ASE questions time. A 2008 BMW 535i with 150,000 miles comes in with oil leaks. Technician A says that both turbo shaft seals are leaking and that the car needs the two turbos replaced to fix the oil leak. Technician B says, How the F can oil from a leaky turbo shaft seal end up on the out side of the engine and all over the ground? Which technician is correct?
B. When turbo shaft seals leak, you get blue smoke out the exhaust....not puddles under the car. WTF? I called the dealer and talked to the service writer. He stated the diagnosis. I asked him how a shaft seal leak would result in a puddle under the car? He said "because the turbo is leaking". I said, "where does the oil go, that leaks past the shaft seal?" ...big pause. I say, "Either into the intake air stream at the compressor, or into the exhaust stream at the turbine.......right?" He agrees. So I say, "So either way, we get blue smoke out the exhaust...not oil on the ground.". He says, "No, it's getting oil on the ground because the turbo shaft seals are leaking." OMG, dude....you're a service writer??? Yikes. I ask the guy, "You DO know how a turbo works.......right?" He replies, "Let me get the tech who worked on the car, he can explain it better." Good idea.
Tech gets on the phone...he's nice, polite...decent sounding guy, but we have the same conversation. The tech "don't get it". I tell him that I appreciate his time, thanks for talking to me. Please top off the oil for my mom, she's going to pick up the car and drive it back to Maine. I told my mom to run the car, look under it for rate of oil leak. She reported one drop every 30 seconds. I said, drive it home...Which she did. $7000.00
Don't buy massively depreciating, Eurpoean ****-boxes (that's a clue that they're insanely expensive to keep running)....and DIY to protect yourself from re-TARDS who wield wrenches.
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Thanks for sharing this with us. Curious if you have put the car on a lift or hoist yet? I'm guessing that its a leaky drain gasket or hose on the turbo bottom that the issue. Take pictures of the old turbos? A front seal or rear seal is an easy fix, there are lots of turbo repair outfits out there. If the front of the turbo was leaking (nose bleed) you would have oil in the intercooler, not on the ground. I bet you had a hose/oring fail, hard to believe both turbos failed at the same time. I've done lots of diesel truck over the years, most dealers just get replacement parts for everything for a very simple fix like a gasket or seal. Post pics if you can. Dang most would love to own a car with two turbos on it. Driving fast must run in the blood.
Best of luck
Last edited by Mike Holmen; 10-09-2018 at 06:24 PM.
My wife has a 2011 BMW 328i. We love the way it rides and handles. It's a very smooth car, and it's fun to zip around in taking the kids places. I am convinced that while there are some very questionable engineering choices made (no dip stick, pcv valve issues, the stupid eccentric shaft position sensor I had to replace) it is still a great car, and the majority of its faults are just amplified by the BMW service departments. They're either inept, or complete crooks. The dealer I used for warranty work was the latter. I took the car in for it's routine maintenance covered under warranty. Basically an oil change and an inspection. Dropped it off in the morning after work, took my loaner and headed on my way. They were going to keep it for the night because we were experiencing a problem with the trunk staying latched and they wanted to see if it had something to do with the temperature (I later resolved this by just turning the stops in a few turns each)
Anyways, they called me up telling me my tires needed to be replaced and they'd be happy to do it for me for close to 1500 dollars. They were worn, but by no means at the end of their life. So I said, don't worry about the tires, I'll take care of them. 1500 for tires is insane and there was no way I was going to pay that. They called me back about 45 minutes later: "oh I meant to mention before we sensed a slight wobble while driving the car, it's probably just the tires, do you want us to replace them?" Of course not, I already said no, and the car drove like it was on a cloud when I took it in.
So the next morning I pull in, drop off the loaner get in my car and turn off the lot onto a 45mph road and before I even get to speed I feel a problem. It's fighting itself down the road. I'm pissed because this is something they did, but I know I need to cool off a little before I go in there. So I get on the highway to go to my work, one exit up. Once I get above 50mph the dashboard lights up with all sorts of lights I've never seen. So I cool off at work, drive the car back to the dealer, walk right into the showroom and say "I need to talk to the service manager, there is something very wrong with my car that they just let me drive off in" very loudly. People are looking, and that was the point. So the service manager asks me what the problem is and I tell her "well one of two things happened here. Either someone has been joyriding in my car and ramped it or hit something so hard it messed up the alignment or suspension. Or your tech messed with the alignment on my car to try and get me to buy tires. Either way, you fix it now" I also gave them a line about sending me off in a car that is displaying dangerous behavior, car seats in the back, my wife drives this car, etc.
They call the tech in, and everyone is giving me the "we would never..." line of crap. They take the car and send me off in a loaner again.
So the best part of this is what they tell me the problem was. It was the SZL - which is a sensor in the traction control system that tells the car where the steering wheel is pointed. This could in NO WAY have caused the problem. It's just a sensor. I basically told them i was on to their bullshit, they'd never see me again, and I'd tell every person I knew with a BMW to avoid them.
Got new tires, had them mounted and the car aligned. The car had way too much toe front and back. It was even from side to side, so the car still went straight, it would have just resulted in accelerated tire wear. Basically they had turned the wrench a few too many times before they let me drive it off and it confused the TCS system because it could tell the wheels weren't pointed where the steering wheel sensor said they should have been. The worst part is this is what they do and I'm sure people fall for it. 1500 for tires? I paid under 500! Now the warranty is over and I maintain the car myself. There are plenty of resources online, and for the most part, it's just like any other modern car in that respect.
The car has just over 55k on it. We'll have it for quite a bit longer at this rate. We'll see how much I hate it at 100k.
My wife has a 2011 BMW 328i. We love the way it rides and handles. It's a very smooth car, and it's fun to zip around in taking the kids places. I am convinced that while there are some very questionable engineering choices made (no dip stick, pcv valve issues, the stupid eccentric shaft position sensor I had to replace) it is still a great car, and the majority of its faults are just amplified by the BMW service departments. They're either inept, or complete crooks. The dealer I used for warranty work was the latter. I took the car in for it's routine maintenance covered under warranty. Basically an oil change and an inspection. Dropped it off in the morning after work, took my loaner and headed on my way. They were going to keep it for the night because we were experiencing a problem with the trunk staying latched and they wanted to see if it had something to do with the temperature (I later resolved this by just turning the stops in a few turns each)
Anyways, they called me up telling me my tires needed to be replaced and they'd be happy to do it for me for close to 1500 dollars. They were worn, but by no means at the end of their life. So I said, don't worry about the tires, I'll take care of them. 1500 for tires is insane and there was no way I was going to pay that. They called me back about 45 minutes later: "oh I meant to mention before we sensed a slight wobble while driving the car, it's probably just the tires, do you want us to replace them?" Of course not, I already said no, and the car drove like it was on a cloud when I took it in.
So the next morning I pull in, drop off the loaner get in my car and turn off the lot onto a 45mph road and before I even get to speed I feel a problem. It's fighting itself down the road. I'm pissed because this is something they did, but I know I need to cool off a little before I go in there. So I get on the highway to go to my work, one exit up. Once I get above 50mph the dashboard lights up with all sorts of lights I've never seen. So I cool off at work, drive the car back to the dealer, walk right into the showroom and say "I need to talk to the service manager, there is something very wrong with my car that they just let me drive off in" very loudly. People are looking, and that was the point. So the service manager asks me what the problem is and I tell her "well one of two things happened here. Either someone has been joyriding in my car and ramped it or hit something so hard it messed up the alignment or suspension. Or your tech messed with the alignment on my car to try and get me to buy tires. Either way, you fix it now" I also gave them a line about sending me off in a car that is displaying dangerous behavior, car seats in the back, my wife drives this car, etc.
They call the tech in, and everyone is giving me the "we would never..." line of crap. They take the car and send me off in a loaner again.
So the best part of this is what they tell me the problem was. It was the SZL - which is a sensor in the traction control system that tells the car where the steering wheel is pointed. This could in NO WAY have caused the problem. It's just a sensor. I basically told them i was on to their bullshit, they'd never see me again, and I'd tell every person I knew with a BMW to avoid them.
Got new tires, had them mounted and the car aligned. The car had way too much toe front and back. It was even from side to side, so the car still went straight, it would have just resulted in accelerated tire wear. Basically they had turned the wrench a few too many times before they let me drive it off and it confused the TCS system because it could tell the wheels weren't pointed where the steering wheel sensor said they should have been. The worst part is this is what they do and I'm sure people fall for it. 1500 for tires? I paid under 500! Now the warranty is over and I maintain the car myself. There are plenty of resources online, and for the most part, it's just like any other modern car in that respect.
The car has just over 55k on it. We'll have it for quite a bit longer at this rate. We'll see how much I hate it at 100k.
In every profession, mechanics included, there are a small percentage that exceed standards and the rest either pass standards or are below standards regardless of what anyone wants to think. I always recommend knowing the mechanic instead of what most people do. Drop off the keys, call me when it is done and I'll hand you my credit card. THAT is what makes them think that they can get away with it. That and the fact that they mostly do. Most of the mechanics I have run across are parts replacers and I keep them honest. I will definitely be part of the diagnostic process and we will stop there till I can consult others with the results after the diagnostic to confirm what you have discovered. This is how I have seen it work. You drop off the car, the ticket gets written up and it goes into a pile. Some random mechanic will probably get it. I specify who I want to do the job. That or I'm not going to work with you. You can do the diagnostic and I'll be there with binoculars to watch you do it if I have to. We will NOT authorize anything until I have had time to consider. I prefer not to start out with big jobs unless I absolutely have to with an unknown tech. Plumber? See above.
No, North Haven, New London is even worse from what I've read and your experience confirms. I have an open recall for the PCV valve that I'll probably drive all the way to Hartford for to not deal with the sheisters down here.
... what most people do. Drop off the keys, call me when it is done and I'll hand you my credit card.
I agree with you. I generally don't let people work on my cars. This was an oil change that was part of the service contract that is included with every new BMW. They went above and beyond to **** up my car to try and get an extra buck out of me. It had NOTHING to do with competence and EVERYTHING to do with them wanting to trick me into spending more money. I have ONE mechanic that I use if I need help with a job. He has a small 3 bay garage and 2 employees. He works almost exclusively on old range rovers. He is very competent, and not just a parts swapper. That being said, I use him very little, but I don't hesitate to recommend him to friends because he is the exception in that he is an honest mechanic.
my mistake was thinking "it's only an oil change what could they possibly **** up?"
I agree with you. I generally don't let people work on my cars. This was an oil change that was part of the service contract that is included with every new BMW. They went above and beyond to **** up my car to try and get an extra buck out of me. It had NOTHING to do with competence and EVERYTHING to do with them wanting to trick me into spending more money. I have ONE mechanic that I use if I need help with a job. He has a small 3 bay garage and 2 employees. He works almost exclusively on old range rovers. He is very competent, and not just a parts swapper. That being said, I use him very little, but I don't hesitate to recommend him to friends because he is the exception in that he is an honest mechanic.
my mistake was thinking "it's only an oil change what could they possibly **** up?"
I know of a guy, a friend and customer actually, Doc. He is my go to to send people with Toyotas. A little expensive (I mean not really when compared to a dealer or chains) but his shop is a full sized 3 bay garage built in his backyard with 3 lifts. He can do more out of there than most dealerships can tbh. I asked him a question about a very specific problem on a 95 toyota pick up. He explained to me the right way to fix it, then proceeded to say "but there is a little screw behind this panel. Turn it 1/8 turn. If that fixes it, you're fine." Truck ran for 10 years after that. Turn key lol. He's thinking about selling his house. I would mortgage my soul to have that garage. Could fit 5 vettes in there.
My point is, you have to find the good ones. Generally they aren't you chain or anything like that. Certified local shops are pretty much all I use if I can't do it myself and all of them have been great in my little experience. Also, there is a cadillac dealer I've used limitedly for the escalade. I had a problem with the instrument cluster, the whole thing failed, the board cracked. I found a replacement cluster online, priced it out and what it would be to do it myself. It was 50$ more to have the dealer do it and they recalibrated the speedometer for us too. Since they're matched to the bcm of that car, there is no telling what a new one would read speed wise. That alone made it worth it to me. They did a few other things as well and were also reasonably priced. Looking up gm cost on the parts their labor was ~100 an hour which is pretty darn good for a dealership.
10-09-2018, 12:54 AM
