Co-worker bought 2 vettes. What will make his 96 beat his 2013
03-14-2019, 09:11 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Co-worker bought 2 vettes. What will make his 96 beat his 2013
Just got back from a work trip.
A co worker of mine just bought 2 corvettes.
a 2013 grand sport stick (m6?) and a 96 lt4 .
he drove his 2013. It sounded awesome. I believe its stock.
i want to see his 96 beat his 2013.
what should he do to mod it?
(and before someone says it cant be done, note 383vett’s c4 would anihilate his c6 Z06.)
A co worker of mine just bought 2 corvettes.
a 2013 grand sport stick (m6?) and a 96 lt4 .
he drove his 2013. It sounded awesome. I believe its stock.
i want to see his 96 beat his 2013.
what should he do to mod it?
(and before someone says it cant be done, note 383vett’s c4 would anihilate his c6 Z06.)
03-14-2019, 09:27 PM
#3
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My 398 88 will beat my new 2019 GS in a straight line, the GS is just way less scary at WOT because its more planted.
2013 GS is what, 435bhp? LT4 has about 350bhp, so he'll need 100 and be able to launch it because the new cars put it down better, unless he really wants to dig into the suspension to make it hook more.
A 383 or 396, 195cc Heads/cam/headers/tune can do it. Cam choice is the key, the 396 will allow him to use more duration that wouldnt be very streetable on the 350. Something like 230/235@050 or that ballpark?
2013 GS is what, 435bhp? LT4 has about 350bhp, so he'll need 100 and be able to launch it because the new cars put it down better, unless he really wants to dig into the suspension to make it hook more.
A 383 or 396, 195cc Heads/cam/headers/tune can do it. Cam choice is the key, the 396 will allow him to use more duration that wouldnt be very streetable on the 350. Something like 230/235@050 or that ballpark?
03-14-2019, 09:46 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
My 398 88 will beat my new 2019 GS in a straight line, the GS is just way less scary at WOT because its more planted.
2013 GS is what, 435bhp? LT4 has about 350bhp, so he'll need 100 and be able to launch it because the new cars put it down better, unless he really wants to dig into the suspension to make it hook more.
A 383 or 396, 195cc Heads/cam/headers/tune can do it. Cam choice is the key, the 396 will allow him to use more duration that wouldnt be very streetable on the 350. Something like 230/235@050 or that ballpark?
2013 GS is what, 435bhp? LT4 has about 350bhp, so he'll need 100 and be able to launch it because the new cars put it down better, unless he really wants to dig into the suspension to make it hook more.
A 383 or 396, 195cc Heads/cam/headers/tune can do it. Cam choice is the key, the 396 will allow him to use more duration that wouldnt be very streetable on the 350. Something like 230/235@050 or that ballpark?
but i wanna say stock bottom end for cost purposes.
bc he says if he can pickup a c5 z06 for near the same price as modding his c4 (to beat his c6), he’d rather do that instead !
Last edited by dizwiz24; 03-14-2019 at 10:27 PM.
03-14-2019, 09:53 PM
#5
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Depending on what he can do himself, he could do it for less than the C5Z price (16-17K in good condition?). Can he do heads/cam himself?
Maybe 190cc heads, ported LT4 intake, headers, 4.10s, reasonably streetable camshaft and/or SC. I think he's looking at $3-4K for the engine if he does much himself and I don't really know what the SC install will be.
I probably have 10-12K just in my engine.
Maybe 190cc heads, ported LT4 intake, headers, 4.10s, reasonably streetable camshaft and/or SC. I think he's looking at $3-4K for the engine if he does much himself and I don't really know what the SC install will be.
I probably have 10-12K just in my engine.
03-15-2019, 02:01 PM
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St. Jude Donor '05
The newer one has the LS2 or 3?
If he stays with the 350 Id put the comp port head on, bump the compression up some a well ported intake and a solid roller..headers, 4.10s and a real good tune
I know most like hydraulics.....He better get himself a sticky tire and practice driving. Even built the newer vettes move out pretty good and make plenty of tq at low rpm
If hes open to a shortblock that is really the way to go, you can only make so much tq wiht the 350. To go faster you have to cam it up and go after rpm. That may mean different head/cam selection etc, do it once.
If he stays with the 350 Id put the comp port head on, bump the compression up some a well ported intake and a solid roller..headers, 4.10s and a real good tune
I know most like hydraulics.....He better get himself a sticky tire and practice driving. Even built the newer vettes move out pretty good and make plenty of tq at low rpm
If hes open to a shortblock that is really the way to go, you can only make so much tq wiht the 350. To go faster you have to cam it up and go after rpm. That may mean different head/cam selection etc, do it once.
Last edited by cv67; 03-15-2019 at 02:03 PM.
03-15-2019, 04:52 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
450+horse crate engine. 4.10 gear set. That should do it. The advantage of a crate engine is you know what it's going to dyno. Building is an unknown quantity. Since you have a goal ; spending a bunch of money and then be 25 hp short. The your spending more money looking for the additional horsepower. Just the way I see it.
03-15-2019, 06:21 PM
#8
Safety Car
Remember we are dealing with a '96. So there is going to be the tuning aspect. Add $400.00 for the Jet box (more for a compatible laptop) or buy one of my VIN slots and use mine. Or possibly he could buy me an extra battery for my laptop and I would give him one of the slots. I have a dedicated XP laptop solely for this purpose.
There is no one in our area that I found that can tune the '96's except PCMforLess up in Hudson. There is a guy with a dyno out towards LaGrange that will tune it if the Jet box and software is supplied to him.
We need to do lunch again and include him as I am accumulating parts for my 96 LT1 with kinda similar goals in mind. He already has full roller rockers with the LT4 of course, but it needs to be checked if the recall was done on it. The LT4 engine has some advantages that the LT1 in my car doesn't have (not talking about the heads or rockers) such as roller timing chain, which I had to buy and filleted crank journals. Of course he already has the LT4 knock module by default, that I bought.
We can discuss the headers I bought, the heads, what injectors are going to be needed, etc.
I don't have the software yet to do datalogging, but I do have a good scanner that can be setup to capture different parameters. What I don't know yet is if will capture a long enough time frame to make tuning doable. If not, that software is another $150.00 because we are dealing with the one year OBDII red headed step child.
There is no one in our area that I found that can tune the '96's except PCMforLess up in Hudson. There is a guy with a dyno out towards LaGrange that will tune it if the Jet box and software is supplied to him.
We need to do lunch again and include him as I am accumulating parts for my 96 LT1 with kinda similar goals in mind. He already has full roller rockers with the LT4 of course, but it needs to be checked if the recall was done on it. The LT4 engine has some advantages that the LT1 in my car doesn't have (not talking about the heads or rockers) such as roller timing chain, which I had to buy and filleted crank journals. Of course he already has the LT4 knock module by default, that I bought.
We can discuss the headers I bought, the heads, what injectors are going to be needed, etc.
I don't have the software yet to do datalogging, but I do have a good scanner that can be setup to capture different parameters. What I don't know yet is if will capture a long enough time frame to make tuning doable. If not, that software is another $150.00 because we are dealing with the one year OBDII red headed step child.
Last edited by drcook; 03-15-2019 at 06:24 PM.
03-15-2019, 07:02 PM
#9
The newer one has the LS2 or 3?
If he stays with the 350 Id put the comp port head on, bump the compression up some a well ported intake and a solid roller..headers, 4.10s and a real good tune
I know most like hydraulics.....He better get himself a sticky tire and practice driving. Even built the newer vettes move out pretty good and make plenty of tq at low rpm
If hes open to a shortblock that is really the way to go, you can only make so much tq wiht the 350. To go faster you have to cam it up and go after rpm. That may mean different head/cam selection etc, do it once.
If he stays with the 350 Id put the comp port head on, bump the compression up some a well ported intake and a solid roller..headers, 4.10s and a real good tune
I know most like hydraulics.....He better get himself a sticky tire and practice driving. Even built the newer vettes move out pretty good and make plenty of tq at low rpm
If hes open to a shortblock that is really the way to go, you can only make so much tq wiht the 350. To go faster you have to cam it up and go after rpm. That may mean different head/cam selection etc, do it once.
I believe the GS came out in 2010 which would make it an LS3 since that came out in '08.
Regardless when mods come into play everything goes out the window but an ls swap wouldn't be a bad way to go.
Curious why this guy bought both at the same time? I'm assuming they're from the same owner who possibly wanted to get rid of the C4 quickly?
Last edited by slow_zo6; 03-15-2019 at 07:05 PM.
03-15-2019, 07:39 PM
#10
Race Director
Thread Starter
Remember we are dealing with a '96. So there is going to be the tuning aspect. Add $400.00 for the Jet box (more for a compatible laptop) or buy one of my VIN slots and use mine. Or possibly he could buy me an extra battery for my laptop and I would give him one of the slots. I have a dedicated XP laptop solely for this purpose.
There is no one in our area that I found that can tune the '96's except PCMforLess up in Hudson. There is a guy with a dyno out towards LaGrange that will tune it if the Jet box and software is supplied to him.
We need to do lunch again and include him as I am accumulating parts for my 96 LT1 with kinda similar goals in mind. He already has full roller rockers with the LT4 of course, but it needs to be checked if the recall was done on it. The LT4 engine has some advantages that the LT1 in my car doesn't have (not talking about the heads or rockers) such as roller timing chain, which I had to buy and filleted crank journals. Of course he already has the LT4 knock module by default, that I bought.
We can discuss the headers I bought, the heads, what injectors are going to be needed, etc.
I don't have the software yet to do datalogging, but I do have a good scanner that can be setup to capture different parameters. What I don't know yet is if will capture a long enough time frame to make tuning doable. If not, that software is another $150.00 because we are dealing with the one year OBDII red headed step child.
There is no one in our area that I found that can tune the '96's except PCMforLess up in Hudson. There is a guy with a dyno out towards LaGrange that will tune it if the Jet box and software is supplied to him.
We need to do lunch again and include him as I am accumulating parts for my 96 LT1 with kinda similar goals in mind. He already has full roller rockers with the LT4 of course, but it needs to be checked if the recall was done on it. The LT4 engine has some advantages that the LT1 in my car doesn't have (not talking about the heads or rockers) such as roller timing chain, which I had to buy and filleted crank journals. Of course he already has the LT4 knock module by default, that I bought.
We can discuss the headers I bought, the heads, what injectors are going to be needed, etc.
I don't have the software yet to do datalogging, but I do have a good scanner that can be setup to capture different parameters. What I don't know yet is if will capture a long enough time frame to make tuning doable. If not, that software is another $150.00 because we are dealing with the one year OBDII red headed step child.
03-15-2019, 09:54 PM
#12
Race Director
03-16-2019, 08:42 AM
#13
Safety Car
Chassis stiffening with a cage and other techniques, coil overs, wider tires, bigger rims and brake conversions.
Wouldn't it be cool to set up a "GoFundMe" account, get a bunch of the folks from here on the forum, with the sole purpose of seeing what can be done to a C4 if the money was available to spend, with the only stipulation is that the total money spent cannot be more than the cost of the car you are trying to best. (ie: the showroom cost, such as the $50K I just recently saw for the new one sitting on the floor of the dealer we go to).
I would start with an 89, but this would be the subject of another thread because we (read that david r) are digressing from the original premise of the thread.
Getting to beat the 2013 going forward fast isn't all of the equation, he will also have to take into account getting it to stop just as fast also !
03-16-2019, 09:01 AM
#14
A lot of money and luck.......and yes, there is that as mentioned above in the cornering aspect (not to mention braking, road manners, etc. etc.)....the 96 is half the car outside of the power aspect all things being equal, so.......
03-16-2019, 09:46 AM
#15
Stock for stock theres about .8 and 8mph difference in the 1/4 between a C4 LT4 and C6 LS3 manual
4.10 gears
LT4 Hot Cam Kit
long tube headers
off road Y
catback
tune
Drag radials
is a proven low 12 second package
4.10 gears
LT4 Hot Cam Kit
long tube headers
off road Y
catback
tune
Drag radials
is a proven low 12 second package
Last edited by Y-bodluvr; 03-16-2019 at 09:58 AM.
03-16-2019, 11:59 AM
#16
Drifting
Supercharge the C4, Headers, tune. Done.
My LT4 is putting 385ish to the wheels with a wide flat torque curve with a Procharger and Cat-Back. Using general rules of thumb... that is about 450ish BHP at the flywheel.
I would say any healthy 383 build with the AFR195s as mentioned coupled with a matching Cam should do the trick as well.
It is not hard to get a SBC to the 450hp mark... lots of options.
My LT4 is putting 385ish to the wheels with a wide flat torque curve with a Procharger and Cat-Back. Using general rules of thumb... that is about 450ish BHP at the flywheel.
I would say any healthy 383 build with the AFR195s as mentioned coupled with a matching Cam should do the trick as well.
It is not hard to get a SBC to the 450hp mark... lots of options.
03-16-2019, 12:36 PM
#17
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St. Jude Donor '05
W/kyle, hotcams can pick things up but knocking a full second off a 1/4 mi dont get your hopes up
Right air, driving, supporting mods perhaps but how often do those runs happen?
Right air, driving, supporting mods perhaps but how often do those runs happen?
03-16-2019, 04:03 PM
#18
Race Director
Thread Starter
when i went long tubes, and drag radials....eventually i was running 12.7’s .
This was on my 93 zf6 93 vert.
03-17-2019, 12:00 PM
#19
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
450+horse crate engine. 4.10 gear set. That should do it. The advantage of a crate engine is you know what it's going to dyno. Building is an unknown quantity. Since you have a goal ; spending a bunch of money and then be 25 hp short. The your spending more money looking for the additional horsepower. Just the way I see it.
The new car is no more "launchable" than the old one...in fact, I'd say the opposite; for a GOOD driver, the old car is way, WAY more driveable...and I've had both a C6 and a C4. But generally, both cars are going to 60' about 2.0x on stock wheel/rubber, so...
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 03-17-2019 at 12:56 PM.
03-17-2019, 12:48 PM
#20
Safety Car
What county does so-called coworker live in. If in one of the counties that require echeck, unless he can get the kind of plates that don't require such, any modifications are going to have to be done that will not trip the OBDII check that the stations use.
(Cuyahoga; Geauga; Lake; Lorain; Medina; Portage; and Summit counties.) Because a 96 is not over 25 yrs old, it still has to be checked.
This is going to hamper any modifications without such plates. That is why I bought headers with cats, and 4 hookups for O2 sensors (I will have 2 more bungs welded on for the wideband ones I am going to install, or turn off the back 2 during the time frame and years I don't have to have echeck done).
https://www.epa.ohio.gov/dapc/echeck...heck/seven_cos
(Cuyahoga; Geauga; Lake; Lorain; Medina; Portage; and Summit counties.) Because a 96 is not over 25 yrs old, it still has to be checked.
This is going to hamper any modifications without such plates. That is why I bought headers with cats, and 4 hookups for O2 sensors (I will have 2 more bungs welded on for the wideband ones I am going to install, or turn off the back 2 during the time frame and years I don't have to have echeck done).
https://www.epa.ohio.gov/dapc/echeck...heck/seven_cos
