C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Building a sub-5s 0-60 L98

 
Old 04-05-2019, 12:54 PM
  #21  
Krusty84
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Originally Posted by slow_zo6 View Post
Leave it alone man. If someone wants to spend thousands on a gen I sbc build hoping to make 400hp thatís their god given right.
Just be sure to use a 3/4 cam and have the cragars to match. 👌
Yea, I know. Who wants mid to upper 500 crank hp with lightly modified factory parts?


This guy ↓↓↓ made ~580 w/ his 6.0 w/ LS3 heads and it is turning the water pump and alt on the stand too.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:26 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
Lots of LS swaps but one done right isnt cheap.
This... lot's of people define the swap complete when it runs, but if you start including addressing the accessories, fueling, emissions, air conditioning... other components of enjoying the car above just horsepower... that is when the money starts to add up. Some cars (not necessarily the C4) are going to require transmission swaps that will start to drive tunnel modifications and a new driveshaft... then will the rear end hold up. Weight change over the front suspension.... new shocks/springs. Now that weight balance has changed, will the proportioning valve need to be changed for brake balancing? Then we can talk gages and interior/dash customization... The list can keep going when you consider "Done Right"

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Old 04-05-2019, 01:28 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Krusty84 View Post
Yea, I know. Who wants mid to upper 500 crank hp with lightly modified factory parts?


This guy ↓↓↓ made ~580 w/ his 6.0 w/ LS3 heads and it is turning the water pump and alt on the stand too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX60rUqXbVc
But what was the investment once the motor was purchased, heads were purchased, new cam... any machine work, assembly... bolts etc? What car is it in? Does everything work? Are you emissions compliant? What about Air Conditioning?

You also do not take into account where everyone is starting from. I purchased my 94 LT4 with a Supercharger already on it. So, I am starting out around 450-ish crank HP... 385 to the wheels to be precise. It woudl be a lot cheaper for me to have a 383 bottom end built and a blower cam installed than going LS. Way cheaper and easier and making 550 crank hp shouldn't even be challenge. Throwing in an LS and getting all the accessories set up and integrate a blower system I already have would not be so easy.

However, I have toyed with the idea of an LS7 just to have a 427 Corvette... but It would cost into the $15,000 range once it is all said and done with a new motor and I would make less horsepower/torque than using what I have slapped to a 383.

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Old 04-05-2019, 01:46 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by obijohnkenobe View Post
Hello I want something that looks very much like stock upon first glance under the hood, but that runs like stink
Not sure why some of you guys are talking LS swaps
the OP wants a LONG RUNNERED TPI setup

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Old 04-05-2019, 02:09 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Y-bodluvr View Post
Not sure why some of you guys are talking LS swaps
the OP wants a LONG RUNNERED TPI setup
Shows up in every thread. No matter what the person who owns the car wants to do... someone shows up with the LS swap.

You can see post #3,4,5,6 basically all said the same thing with different degrees of detail. Then the LS guy showed up. The OP has his answer IMO.

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Old 04-05-2019, 02:35 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by slow_zo6 View Post
Leave it alone man. If someone wants to spend thousands on a gen I sbc build hoping to make 400hp thatís their god given right.
Just be sure to use a 3/4 cam and have the cragars to match. 👌



Probably the fastest C4 on this forum is running a SBC!!

That aside, everyone seems to forget, parts for the SBC and LT1 have become much better over the past few years vs what was out there 20 years ago. For example, a set of AFR 210 heads that flow 300 cfm out of the box... That was unheard of 20 years ago.

Funny thing is, in reality, there are very few of these LS converted C4 on here, and even fewer showing track times......

So how about some timeslips posted, mods required, what it cost, and convince the rest of us its worth it!!!

.
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Old 04-05-2019, 02:48 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Y-bodluvr View Post
Not sure why some of you guys are talking LS swaps
the OP wants a LONG RUNNERED TPI setup
Probably because the the SBC options mentioned are unrealistic and KyleF brought up buying an LS powered C5. Haha...
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:11 PM
  #28  
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I haven't seen long runner just wants TPI. Stock manifold will present a challenge to get the 450 hp while Superram, or aftermarket TPI manifolds will cut heavily into his budget.
The light to light grand prix also is largely dependent on shifting ability.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:34 PM
  #29  
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(Precursor, nothing against LS swaps, this is just my feelings on the subject matter and the reality that most people ignore. You do you, but the OP stated what he wanted.) Anyway...

If I'm spending all that time to swap in an LS I sure as **** ain't slapping in someone elses clapped out crap. And at that point, any possibly of doing it for 5k goes right out the window. and once you start moving past 500 hp N/A it starts costing about the same for either path you go. Been around both, price goes up exponentially as you add horsepower. Boost is entirely different, LS gets the nod there for how it responds but I prefer NA.

I drank the LS coolaid for a while, did the math and crunched the numbers and determined I could build a 400, lose about 50 hp over the ls and the thing would bolt right in and I wouldn't have to give a damn about making everything work. I don't have the time to screw around making the thing 100%. Just too busy. 400 is a literal drop in.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:43 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Krusty84 View Post
Probably because the the SBC options mentioned are unrealistic and KyleF brought up buying an LS powered C5. Haha...



I want to start with, I have read most all of your post, and I have a lot of respect to what you have done and what you say.... But the OP title is, building a sub 5 sec 0-60 L98.

It seems that by a few he is being told, short of a LS motor its not possible. And anyone who tries anything different is stupid. At least thats the way it seems to come across to me.

I will agree, the LS has some advantages.... but the SBC is no slouch either if built properly.

I believe KyleF is saying the same. His reason for suggesting a C5 is.... Start with that. It already is designed for the LS with working cruise control, ac, etc. This, in the long run would probably be cheaper then converting a C4 to a LS with all accessories working.
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 93 ragtop View Post


I want to start with, I have read most all of your post, and I have a lot of respect to what you have done and what you say.... But the OP title is, building a sub 5 sec 0-60 L98.

It seems that by a few he is being told, short of a LS motor its not possible. And anyone who tries anything different is stupid. At least thats the way it seems to come across to me.

I will agree, the LS has some advantages.... but the SBC is no slouch either if built properly.

I believe KyleF is saying the same. His reason for suggesting a C5 is.... Start with that. It already is designed for the LS with working cruise control, ac, etc. This, in the long run would probably be cheaper then converting a C4 to a LS with all accessories working.
Just want to point out that I didn't start the LS talk. I was just commenting on power levels that are easily obtainable.

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Old 04-05-2019, 04:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Kevova View Post
I haven't seen long runner just wants TPI. Stock manifold will present a challenge to get the 450 hp while Superram, or aftermarket TPI manifolds will cut heavily into his budget.
The light to light grand prix also is largely dependent on shifting ability.
to me the OP is talking about staying with a long RUNNERED setup to look factory
Originally Posted by obijohnkenobe View Post
I want something that looks very much like stock upon first glance under the hood, but that runs like stink. Could I get by with the factory TPI but with large tube ASM runners,
I personally wouldnít if youíre looking to maximize speed/horsepower I mean a Short/Min ram style intake is still going to look STOCK but like a 92-96

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Old 04-05-2019, 04:15 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Krusty84 View Post
Just want to point out that I didn't start the LS talk. I was just commenting on power levels that are easily obtainable.
I must have missed where someone said you did. Post #7....

Originally Posted by slow_zo6 View Post
LS swap that ****! Why spend $5k + in hopes of running with a stock C6 or stock C7? Especially when most c4s are only worth about that to begin with?
In my post, I suggested someone would be money ahead with a C5 and starting with an LS unless he is tied to the C4 (Sentimental reasons maybe...). I did not suggest a swap. I suggested it may be easier to start with a 345hp motor as opposed to a 245hp motor if the goal is simply a certain performance level. Since we are going down the road of swaps, I still believe it would be cheaper long term if you want an LS to start with a C5 rather than swapping a C1,2,3,4 to an LS because it is all there an will be plug and play for most modifications.

Personally I am tied to my C4 CE LT4 because it is what I have always wanted.... has to do with my age and when I was in high school. Same with my IROC. The C4 is my favorite look of Corvette. Same for my IROC... I like all generations, but the Third gens hold a special place. So does the appearance of the factory TPI. I will never LS swap my IROC or my C4. I love the look of the Long Runner TPI too much and I know what that limits the car to. I am ok with that... because someone will always be faster. Someone will always spend more money... but that feeling of being 17 again with the tops out... that's what it is about. My LT4 intake system doesn't have the same limitations, and I like the way it looks more than an LS as well.

Then I have my Hemi in my Challenger that your LS isn't touching anyway. So maybe you LS guys should start Hemi swapping.

Last edited by KyleF; 04-05-2019 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 04:19 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Y-bodluvr View Post
to me the OP is talking about staying with a long RUNNERED setup to look factory


I personally wouldn’t if you’re looking to maximize speed/horsepower I mean a Short/Min ram style intake is still going to look STOCK but like a 92-96
No Intake system looks better that a factory TPI IMO and why I would use a FIRST as opposed to a Miniram/HSR - etc.

Last edited by KyleF; 04-05-2019 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:24 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
No Intake system looks better that a factory TPI IMO and why I would use a FIRST as opposed to a Miniram/HSR - etc.
beg to differ, tunnel ram with 2 4's is much more impressive that some tpi intake any day of the week.. and for the op, why bother spending money on porting stock heads when you can buy after market heads that flow much better with bigger valves for the same price ditch the stock crap and go with the good stuff, if you want to keep fuel injection check out the holley sniper

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Old 04-06-2019, 07:09 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bud40oz View Post
beg to differ, tunnel ram with 2 4's is much more impressive that some tpi intake any day of the week..
I guess IMO just went over your head. The OP doesn't want a tunnel ram and that's pretty irrelevant to this thread. You like what you like... fine put a tunnel ram on your car with dual quads. I can identify with why the OP wants to keep the long runner look.

Last edited by KyleF; 04-06-2019 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:59 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I guess IMO just went over your head. The OP doesn't want a tunnel ram and that's pretty irrelevant to this thread. You like what you like... fine put a tunnel ram on your car with dual quads. I can identify with why the OP wants to keep the long runner look.
I personally think the lt5 runner set up looks cooler but that's just me lol.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Because by the time you have a functional LS in there, you are way past $5k. Especially if you want all your dash functions working.
I put an LS (LQ9 6.0L) into my car for less than $5K, it can be done pretty easy these days.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:57 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 84 4+3 View Post
I personally think the lt5 runner set up looks cooler but that's just me lol.
I can dig that, but I like how the TPI tubes wrap under a bit and give an appearance of sitting up high. When it comes to aesthetics, there really is no subjective way to argue. We can measure output and performance, but what causes one to like the looks of one over another isn't something that can be measured. I fully support anyone building what they like simply because it is what they like. There is always someone faster who spent more money or had more resources. If your sole reason for a build is based only on speed, you will often be disappointed. Though, if you build you car the way you like it and pursue squeezing the most out of it you will probably be happier long term IMO. So, I totally understand the OPs goal.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:06 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
I put an LS (LQ9 6.0L) into my car for less than $5K, it can be done pretty easy these days.
A reman'ed LQ9 from Summit or ATK is $2500... that does not include intake, fuel injectors/rails, engine mounts, accessory brackets, or any integration. Are you trying to tell me you get all the parts to make that work and get it in the car for $2500. Nope!

Do you have air conditioning? Do you have cruise control, does all your factory gauges work? Has your block and rotating assembly been replaced or freshened up?? I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Let me be more direct. You are not pulling at LTX or L98 out of a C4 and putting in a fully functional LS for less than building a 355,383, 396 SBC based on what you have. Fully functional means, all other vehicle systems function and perform the same as from the factory.... and by building I mean all the rings, bearings, seals, crank, pistons etc. have been either refreshed or replaced.

Can you get a junk yard LS in there and working for under $5k... probably.
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