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Stock LT1 24# injectors, support 350rwhp?

 
Old 04-25-2019, 11:15 AM
  #21  
aklim
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Originally Posted by 9T3VETTE View Post
Itís a PITA but ive had success with datamaster which is what I used. Itís the only program they will work with as far as I understand.
Assuming the tuner will do that, absolutely. Seems like most people just ask the customer for a SOTP eval which is why I call it "Guess a Tune". I don't think anyone is good enough to get it right the first time without verification and no customer is good enough to know it is right by SOTP. Lower standards and it can pass.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:31 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Data log with what? Eons ago, I had Jim Formato using Diacom. He sent me the cable and we had to make several goes at it. Lingenfelter who designed that combo had to make several tweaks. This is why I wonder how anyone is so good that they can get it down with one shot. Hitech custom ground the cam and 383 combo and it took them a while to get it perfect which includes driving under different conditions to get the low to mid range just perfect. It was very close as an initial offering but may I am just more picky about how the car performs when I am on the street as opposed to a WOT run they got pretty quickly.



I guess it somewhat depends on what you call (1 shot).....
In my case, Alvin had already dyno tuned several cars with the hotcam and ported heads....
His tune was so close to perfect, that it passed Va emissions (idle, 15 and 25 mph) The mail order tune made within 5 hp of what he was able to get on the dyno, when I eventually had him to dyno tune it
BTW, at least at the time he tuned mine, Alvin preferred to send out a mail order tune, have you drive it, note things such as start up, idle, hesitations, etc. and bring that with you on the day he dyno tunes your car.

If you were doing mail order only, then he is more then willing to data log back and forth if needed.
In short, I have never worked with anyone else who showed so much concern to make sure the tune was correct.

Wanted to point out one other thing. Back in those days, Alvin traveled all over the country tuning. He would set up events at different dyno locations, you would bring your car and he would complete the tune.
I dont think he does that anymore, but he does have a nice shop in NC.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:35 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by 93 ragtop View Post
I guess it somewhat depends on what you call (1 shot).....
In my case, Alvin had already dyno tuned several cars with the hotcam and ported heads....
His tune was so close to perfect, that it passed Va emissions (idle, 15 and 25 mph) The mail order tune made within 5 hp of what he was able to get on the dyno, when I eventually had him to dyno tune it
BTW, at least at the time he tuned mine, Alvin preferred to send out a mail order tune, have you drive it, note things such as start up, idle, hesitations, etc. and bring that with you on the day he dyno tunes your car.

If you were doing mail order only, then he is more then willing to data log back and forth if needed.
In short, I have never worked with anyone else who showed so much concern to make sure the tune was correct.

Wanted to point out one other thing. Back in those days, Alvin traveled all over the country tuning. He would set up events at different dyno locations, you would bring your car and he would complete the tune.
I dont think he does that anymore, but he does have a nice shop in NC.
What I call "one shot" would be someone writing a tune and not doing what you talked about.

I don't know if most are. Like I said, if they do datalogging, I would say it isn't guessing. If I send you the tune and not do any datalogging, it is, IMO, guessing.
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:23 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
What I call "one shot" would be someone writing a tune and not doing what you talked about.

I don't know if most are. Like I said, if they do datalogging, I would say it isn't guessing. If I send you the tune and not do any datalogging, it is, IMO, guessing.


I think for the most part we can agree here.
I believe even to expand this further, And this is just my opinion, but in the tuning business these seems to be a lot of "non professionals out there" Both mail order and dyno operators.
I have a friend who built a 408 ford turbo motor, should have been in the 750hp range. Took it to a dyno shop in NVA and they blew it up on the dyno. When it was tore back down, he melted the pistons....

Alvin has been very good to me. And I just wanted to add, I have seen him turn down some tunes...... Told them the only way he would tune it was to bring it to his shop. IMO there are probably very few if any people who know that business better then Alvin. Again, just my opinion.
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Old 04-26-2019, 10:57 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Data log with what? Eons ago, I had Jim Formato using Diacom. He sent me the cable and we had to make several goes at it. Lingenfelter who designed that combo had to make several tweaks. This is why I wonder how anyone is so good that they can get it down with one shot. Hitech custom ground the cam and 383 combo and it took them a while to get it perfect which includes driving under different conditions to get the low to mid range just perfect. It was very close as an initial offering but may I am just more picky about how the car performs when I am on the street as opposed to a WOT run they got pretty quickly.
Are you a member of Guild of EFI tuners? This topic comes up a lot there. A lot of commercial tuners now are tuning remote in real time using teamviewer. It makes sense really, although most of them are tuning modern aftermarket stuff.

Although the '94 PCM isn't that bad. I hate waiting for it to flash, but being a MAF based system you don't have a whole lot to change for part throttle stuff. AE work, PE work, crank/idle stuff and it's good.

-- Joe
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:30 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 93 ragtop View Post

I think for the most part we can agree here.
I believe even to expand this further, And this is just my opinion, but in the tuning business these seems to be a lot of "non professionals out there" Both mail order and dyno operators.
I have a friend who built a 408 ford turbo motor, should have been in the 750hp range. Took it to a dyno shop in NVA and they blew it up on the dyno. When it was tore back down, he melted the pistons....

Alvin has been very good to me. And I just wanted to add, I have seen him turn down some tunes...... Told them the only way he would tune it was to bring it to his shop. IMO there are probably very few if any people who know that business better then Alvin. Again, just my opinion.
Agreed that there are a lot of hacks out there. As with most groups, I have found that there are a few that will stand out, many are "treading water" and even more plain should be executed at dawn or sooner. That said, NOBODY is infallible. Even the best guy can make a mistake and toast a motor as an extreme and as an example of a lesser problem, not run perfectly. IMO, going with someone with good experience will better your odds of getting something good. Obviously, he has made mistakes in the past but if he has not had a bunch of mistakes lately, it probably will not be as risky.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:33 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by anesthes View Post
Are you a member of Guild of EFI tuners? This topic comes up a lot there. A lot of commercial tuners now are tuning remote in real time using teamviewer. It makes sense really, although most of them are tuning modern aftermarket stuff.

Although the '94 PCM isn't that bad. I hate waiting for it to flash, but being a MAF based system you don't have a whole lot to change for part throttle stuff. AE work, PE work, crank/idle stuff and it's good.

-- Joe
No. I couldn't make ends meet on doing that unless I really wanted to spend the time to learn how to do it properly with a dyno and the related equipment. I'd spend thousands of dollars of time and money to do something that was once in a long while. Wouldn't be worth it. Don't really care what they tune with as long as they are competent and have all necessary data to do the tune right.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:20 PM
  #28  
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I had an LT 383 with AFR heads in my Fbody Camaro that dynoed at 395whp with stock pump and injectors
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:46 PM
  #29  
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Default Datacat

Just wanted to chime in on the DATACAT program. I have a 1991 base coupe and was trying to use TunerPro this weekend to log my data, it was erratic and I tried many patches others suggested in other forums, nothing I tried would get consistent data. I downloaded DATACAT and it worked perfectly. Got very consistent data right off the bat and it will give you a BLM history table.

Last edited by wsherrard; 05-16-2019 at 11:08 PM. Reason: First post had wrong program name
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:19 PM
  #30  
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Well if you have TunerCat s/f then you can make adjustments as you see fit but of course save your original tune and the mail order tune in their own files. Changing injectors you have to change the tune - required. But new heads and cam should get a new tune though it will start and and may even run well enough to drive. What I'm saying is if I was doing the tuning myself I would do one before the other and doing the injectors last should only be the injectors spec for pressure, flow, constants. Meaning saving the injector upgrade once I see I actually need them.

Now driving a hotter motor with too small injectors could go lean at WOT so that WOT runs would wait until the fuel maps are corrected and extended for high rpm's. I guess I just feel the final tuning should be my own and if I can do the final tune why not do the whole thing? Granted PCM4Less would have a very good start and I expect the correct injector specs. But you may not need the bigger injectors saving not only $$ but a lot of effort. Your stock injectors are already proven for your 350 cubes and PCM. My thinking is much less than an hour for some dyno pulls would be savings over new injectors if you find you really don't need them. But please extend your fuel maps at high rpm's first.

I hope this can help more than confuse.
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