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86 C4 4speed trying to make it a 9sec without swap any suggestions?

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86 C4 4speed trying to make it a 9sec without swap any suggestions?

 
Old 05-08-2019, 02:18 PM
  #21  
Capt Mike
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The Dice Club

If you love your C4 this much, why not just add some more power , not too wild, and just drive her & Find another for a built...

I've owned my current C4 Convert for many years, I added a photo . She's got a little more HP than the OEM stock setup, but she still is a pleasant driver,, just a bit stiff, needs all new front control arm bushings.. I went easy on mod's back in 1999,, Just a base 385 hp ZZ4 GM crate motor with a new Doug Nash (that I had under a bench) and the Diffy rebuilt but with 3:73 gears, and some suspension upgrades that didn't require any fabrication.. C4's aren't exactly east to make suspension and roll cage mods being a unibody.

My personal experience, Being more than halfway into a serious frame up build with my '37 Chevy Coupe (Carbon Fiber Body) , I'll tell you that $20k $30k $40, will most likely not get you into a 9 second car. My current '37 Chevy Coupe build,,, I'm getting very close to $100k.

So I wish to convey that it takes a great deal of personal drive and perseverance to design, build and finish most any Car. The more HP,, the more perseverance the more $$ & Time. I don't know your experiences, but anyone can learn. I learned to weld way back in high school. But I only Tack weld the pieces together, under orders form my friend Ron who is a professional certified welder. And my shop is relatively small but I do have a drive-on lift. Something you might consider. Without my friends (even though at first they though I was Crazy), my small garage and the drive-on lift I would have never been able to complete this build.

Try to imaging the $$$ to build any 9 second or 10 second or even 11 second build, they are very very expensive and require lots of experience and money ! Cutting into a C4 to push a 10 second ET is something that I'd Never ever attempt. But, there's probably one somewhere.

As Example,,,, So my '37 Chevy is powered by a new GM LS3 with all few mod's that includes Two mirror image Nelson Racing Turbo's, A RPM build Tremic Super Magnum T-56 manual, Monster 3 disc SFI approved clutch kit & SFI steel bell housing & block saver, Dutchman's 9 inch IRS Diffy housing with Strange Engineering Aluminum alloy 3rd member, Corvette Suspension and brakes. The Frame Rails and Roll Cage components where bent to our CAD drawing at AME in Fife WA.. The frame and roll cage was TIG Welded on a borrowed four rail frame table. So, it's true, it's great to have good friends.

She's just under 2000 pounds, Obtaining A 9 second ET, probably not. But She will be Street Legal and will be primarily a Street Rod.

There's much information and knowledge that can be learned on this forum and others. But first get a copy of NHRA 2019 Rule Book and learn the basic requirements. Good Luck and do go into the Pits at as many NHRA events that you can this Summer.

Michael.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:41 PM
  #22  
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It certainly does NOT take $100k to run 9s. It doesn't even take $100k to run 7s.

9s can very easily be done for $20k if that is your GOAL. Spending $100k to build a car and it not run 9s isn't because you didn't spend enough money, its because a specific quarter mile time wasn't a deciding factor.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:03 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
9s can very easily be done for $20k if that is your GOAL. .
His goal is to run 9’s with TPI and a manual good luck with that..
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Y-bodluvr View Post
His goal is to run 9’s with TPI and a manual good luck with that..
He never said with TPI.

I recommended he upgrade heads and intake manifold and convert to MS3x or Holley EFI which would completely do away with TPI.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
He never said with TPI.

I recommended he upgrade heads and intake manifold and convert to MS3x or Holley EFI which would completely do away with TPI.
He said “have an L98 and tying to keep it as original as possible” to me that’s keeping it TPI but only he knows fir sure exactly what he means..
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:52 PM
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[QUOTE=Capt Mike;1599365786]



The Dice Club

….. I can never understand why someone would buy a roadster and "convert" it into a coupe … BTW , your vette's front tire is flat … Hooray for your outrageous '37 Chevy … that's quite a project … but is it just me or are the rear fender lines a bit "off" … a wise man (not me) once said "There's a butt for every seat" …..






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Old 05-09-2019, 09:26 AM
  #27  
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9's will require a cage to make more than1 run per day. A 6 point roll bar won't cut it. Caging gets a solid axle and a glide or light weight 4 speed. VFN body knocks off several hundred pounds.
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:37 AM
  #28  
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C409, Thanks !! Nope that's a bolt on RPO CC2, auxiliary hardtop. I like this look, so once in a while she's gets to be a FRC look. Ya, that tire has need a leaker for a while, New tires soon. Good eye re the rear fender wells. They were incorrectly cut by maker cut. But I've got a fresh pair on inserts to install once I get the new 28.4 inch dia. Nitto's. Those roller are only 24 inch dia.

Kenova is correct, a roll cage is required. The fabrication and craftsmanship is inspected to very high standards. I had AME Bend all my roll cage parts, was a very reasonable price around $1k for all the bend and straight members. But getting it into the body was time consuming. I bolted a 12 volt winch to the back wall and steel cross members bolted to the ceiling so we could easily lift the body up out of the way. Up & Down all day long. practically for every single piece as we Coped the tubing ends and Tack welded the cage up piece by piece. This body was easier because there where no floorboards. Overall, The Roll Cage Fab was much easier and more enjoyable than the Frame.

Which to me makes a C3 more practical to me for a low ET build, having a complete frame and etc... NHRA is very picky re welding mine are all TIG, their preference. As example, Zero grinding on welds, perfect fitting Coped joints and they may require Magnaflux Cert !!

I inserted two photos of the chassis


JOENOVA "9s can very easily be done for $20k if that is your GOAL"

Well no offence, but I guess if one had a race ready body. Admittedly, My build cost includes all the materials and components to build this '37 Chevy Coupe, everything !! And I also chose a manual Trans and the required SFI certified parts add up fast.

The NHRA requirements get very expensive very quickly, and there's no arguing with their Tech Inspectors. The SFI requirements on the Drive Train alone adds up fast. I know what a frame with suspension costs, expensive. I've been to Art Morrison Ent. & Jim Meyer Racing Plants. But I do know a man who purchased a race ready Nova complete "NHRA Certified" race ready, less drive train for a great price. The new engine & Trans were well over $20k. He runs in the 9's consistently.






A good tight Cope



Here's the Chassis with the main members in place. Quite a few small brackets, mounts and etc were added



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Old 05-09-2019, 12:07 PM
  #29  
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The idea that you need a full chassis car or even a modified chassis to run 9s is absurd as well. This isn't the 70s or 80s anymore.
You don't need a $6500 Art morrison subframe to go 9s. You don't need a $15k big block to go 9s.
We're in the age of budget speed. I had $12k invested in my 8-second capable Nova and when it came time to cage it, I decided I just wanted to drive it instead.
Guess what? Still ended up with around 4-digit power and 28 mpg on the highway. I could still lay stripes with ET Pros from a 40 roll.

I have $11k total invested in my C4. That's a quad turbo LS swap with a flex fuel setup so I can run any mix of pump gas and E85 I want on the fly.
The transmission is a built TH400. The ECU is an MS3Pro Evo. I have very nice traction control. The car has active aero in the rear wing. I have an 8-point cage.
I have coilovers on all 4 corners. C6Z wheels with fresh tires. C5 brakes. Enough sensors and safety features in the ECU to have more data than I'll ever need.
The engine makes probably ~800 horsepower barely pushing it and the car handles enough for autocross.
By the time I end up at $12k invested, I'll have electric power steering and an IRS 8.8. $13k and my aluminum 5.3 will be in there with 200 more horsepower.

By the time I get $20k invested, 9s should've been "back when I ran them".

Anyone who can research and budget can get to the 9s, even on a C4.
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:35 PM
  #30  
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Well, a 2019 ZR-1 with 770 HP will run the quarter mile in 10.6 seconds, so your C4 is going to have to produce 900 HP or more to break into the 9 second range. The only way you can accomplish that HP with a stock-ish C4 L98 is to turbo the crap out of it... and then you have the limitation of a 2-bolt mains block that can't handle 900 HP at 6000 RPM or more without grenading. In short, if you want a 9 second quarter mile C4, you're going to have to replace the engine... and the transmission... and the rear end. It will NOT be stock, or even stock-ish.

What are you trying to build? An obnoxious street car? A dragster for the track? How much money do you have? Honestly, you will come out ahead financially if you sell your C4 and buy a C6 Z06, and then you will have a very fast, practical street car with usable, tractable, controllable power for the non-Senna-skilled driver. I think a 900 HP C4 would be a very dangerous car for most people because controllability would be difficult... it would be very easy to accidentally break the rear wheels free when driving aggressively. Honestly, a 500 HP C4 would be very fast, very drivable, and a great street car that would win many stoplight to stoplight drags.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:06 PM
  #31  
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https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-progress.html

maybe this guy can help, he even has a solid rear for sale
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:06 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
The idea that you need a full chassis car or even a modified chassis to run 9s is absurd as well. This isn't the 70s or 80s anymore.
You don't need a $6500 Art morrison subframe to go 9s. You don't need a $15k big block to go 9s.
We're in the age of budget speed. I had $12k invested in my 8-second capable Nova and when it came time to cage it, I decided I just wanted to drive it instead.
Guess what? Still ended up with around 4-digit power and 28 mpg on the highway. I could still lay stripes with ET Pros from a 40 roll.

I have $11k total invested in my C4. That's a quad turbo LS swap with a flex fuel setup so I can run any mix of pump gas and E85 I want on the fly.
The transmission is a built TH400. The ECU is an MS3Pro Evo. I have very nice traction control. The car has active aero in the rear wing. I have an 8-point cage.
I have coilovers on all 4 corners. C6Z wheels with fresh tires. C5 brakes. Enough sensors and safety features in the ECU to have more data than I'll ever need.
The engine makes probably ~800 horsepower barely pushing it and the car handles enough for autocross.
By the time I end up at $12k invested, I'll have electric power steering and an IRS 8.8. $13k and my aluminum 5.3 will be in there with 200 more horsepower.

By the time I get $20k invested, 9s should've been "back when I ran them".

Anyone who can research and budget can get to the 9s, even on a C4.
It takes money to go 9s and do it right. There are guys with 1200hp cars on thirdgen.org, yet the cars cannot even pass tech to run faster than 10.99..

-- Joe
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:17 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by anesthes View Post
It takes money to go 9s and do it right. There are guys with 1200hp cars on thirdgen.org, yet the cars cannot even pass tech to run faster than 10.99..

-- Joe
An 8.50 cert cage around here in Chromoly is $3500. Mild steel is about $2000-2500. You can do it yourself for $250 in mild steel if you have a bender.
That plays well within the $20,000 budget.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:59 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
An 8.50 cert cage around here in Chromoly is $3500. Mild steel is about $2000-2500. You can do it yourself for $250 in mild steel if you have a bender.
That plays well within the $20,000 budget.
There is a lot more to a 9 second car than the cage. And 20k is a very low budget, even if your labor is free.

-- Joe
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:06 AM
  #35  
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It seems there is a lot of old school mentality around here....
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:16 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
It seems there is a lot of old school mentality around here....
No, it's the requirements for NHRA competition.. There has always been junkyard builds and people who can make a street car 'go 9s' but a '9 second car' to me means something that passes tech and won't blow up after 10 passes.

But with that said, 20k is still a cheap budget for even a street car build.

You also have to factor in your time. Spending 20 hours to save a little money on a part isn't always worth it. I'm being paid over $100 / hr right now to sit at my desk and respond to this message hahaha.

-- Joe
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:18 PM
  #37  
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Thrifty in to the 9's many times is profiting on others misfortune. Rarely from building a ground up car, I don't know that will happen with a C4, G or Fox body. Mostly you have 10-20k cash available to make a deal when opportunities arrive.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:31 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by JoeNova View Post
The idea that you need a full chassis car or even a modified chassis to run 9s is absurd as well. This isn't the 70s or 80s anymore.
You don't need a $6500 Art morrison subframe to go 9s. You don't need a $15k big block to go 9s.
We're in the age of budget speed. I had $12k invested in my 8-second capable Nova and when it came time to cage it, I decided I just wanted to drive it instead.
Guess what? Still ended up with around 4-digit power and 28 mpg on the highway. I could still lay stripes with ET Pros from a 40 roll.

I have $11k total invested in my C4. That's a quad turbo LS swap with a flex fuel setup so I can run any mix of pump gas and E85 I want on the fly.
The transmission is a built TH400. The ECU is an MS3Pro Evo. I have very nice traction control. The car has active aero in the rear wing. I have an 8-point cage.
I have coilovers on all 4 corners. C6Z wheels with fresh tires. C5 brakes. Enough sensors and safety features in the ECU to have more data than I'll ever need.
The engine makes probably ~800 horsepower barely pushing it and the car handles enough for autocross.
By the time I end up at $12k invested, I'll have electric power steering and an IRS 8.8. $13k and my aluminum 5.3 will be in there with 200 more horsepower.

By the time I get $20k invested, 9s should've been "back when I ran them".

Anyone who can research and budget can get to the 9s, even on a C4.

….. I wanna see pics of a quad turbo LS setup in a C4 chassis …..
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:10 PM
  #39  
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A manual tranny C4 with a Dana 44 will never be able to run 9's. A C4 with an auto can and has been able to run 9's, but not with a clutch. A manual shocks the rearend severely at launch.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by C409 View Post
….. I wanna see pics of a quad turbo LS setup in a C4 chassis …..
No hood helps with fitment
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