OK guys i need some serious advice
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
OK guys i need some serious advice
ok before you all start flaming me let me re-emphasise the fact i love all cars. i love domestic ones the best and will never own a import ricer but i like knowing specs on all sports cars. that being said, some of you may remember i have a couple friends with nissan 300ZX's. well one of my friends with one has a stock twin turbo setup with intake exhaust, a custom chip emulator that he designed and a boost controller that he had set on 16lbs of boost when he ran this dyno run. I have seen this car and know he is not lying about what he has done to it. he has the stock cams and pistons and crank and everything, he has taken off his heads and polished them a bit himself but no porting or professional polishing or anyting like that no fans on the intercoolers or anything like that. but look at this dyno run http://bellsouthpwp.net/S/k/SkiFly01...sh_run_017.jpg
NOW:.........................
MY QUESTION IS:
what can i do to even start to keep up with him ?
i have a almost bone stock LT4 and i know i wont put out as much power as him unless i get different heads and cam BUT how much horsepower do you think i can put out with bolt ons such as intake, exhaust, OBDII reprogramming, throttlebody, ignition system ect? what brand of these things provide the most power? will it help me to port and polish my LT4 heads or will that just hurt me untill i get a bigger cam? any input is greatly appreciated
[Modified by 1996man, 2:24 AM 1/29/2003]
NOW:.........................
MY QUESTION IS:
what can i do to even start to keep up with him ?
i have a almost bone stock LT4 and i know i wont put out as much power as him unless i get different heads and cam BUT how much horsepower do you think i can put out with bolt ons such as intake, exhaust, OBDII reprogramming, throttlebody, ignition system ect? what brand of these things provide the most power? will it help me to port and polish my LT4 heads or will that just hurt me untill i get a bigger cam? any input is greatly appreciated
[Modified by 1996man, 2:24 AM 1/29/2003]
#2
Re: OK guys i need some serious advice (1996man)
If you want to hang with him then you're gonna have to tear into the motor / get nitrous, or forced induction of some type.
As far as bolt ons go the only thing worth the money really is a set of long tube headers, should gain a lot of mid range torque and will only amplify any other mods you do. A good solid heads / cam package can make over 400 rwhp although you're gonna have to get more aggressive than the Hot Cam that I love so much. Nitrous or a supercharger will do it too but nitrous is temporary and the bottom end isn't really built for forced induction.
For reliable on demand power you really need heads / cam / headers. Forced induction can be very reliable as well if you build the bottom end right but that gets very costly very quickly. The other option is nitrous, but again that can be just as dangerous as forced induction and won't be on all the time. It is however the cheapest way out.
Ask yourself what you want to do, do you want to beat him at the track with a bottle or do you want to beat him all the time without having to fill up anything but the gas tank?
BTW, the biggest thing you have going for you is torque. I'll use my car as an example. HP follows torque and RPM, so if you have more torque for any given RPM you will make more HP at that same RPM. So a high peak HP doesn't necessarily mean squat, you've got to look at total HP, or the area under the curve. I make 365 rwhp on my latest dyno graph. He doesn't have torque on his graph, but you can figure it out mathematically if you want, but you don't really need to.
In his case at 2500 rpm's he's making less than 100 hp, I'm already making 150. By 3000 rpm's he's making 150 but I'm already making 181. Notice it's a smaller difference, his turbo is spooling up. By 3500 he's making what looks like 210, I'm making 220. By 4000 he's making what looks like about 275, I'm making 263. Finally he's making more power but it takes over half of the power band to do it. Ultimately he ends up peaking with more torque but hp wise he's not THAT much more than me. Yeah he'll probably win the race but it would be VERY close. Assuming I had traciton the extra torque would help accelerate me better (assuming of course that the car weight is the same)
So what does this mean? It means that for all his numbers, and yes they are impressive you can still make more power down low with a good old fashioned V8. Your friend's numbers are very impressive but I it's not that far out of reach for your car. If you can achieve the same peak HP you will probably end up doing it with a much more HP across the board. Essentially you can probably beat him in a race with less hp because you can put a lead on him from the start that will be hard to recover. Granted if he had enough time to catch up with you he would probably have a higher top speed, but most races don't last that long. :cheers:
[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 8:48 PM 1/28/2003]
As far as bolt ons go the only thing worth the money really is a set of long tube headers, should gain a lot of mid range torque and will only amplify any other mods you do. A good solid heads / cam package can make over 400 rwhp although you're gonna have to get more aggressive than the Hot Cam that I love so much. Nitrous or a supercharger will do it too but nitrous is temporary and the bottom end isn't really built for forced induction.
For reliable on demand power you really need heads / cam / headers. Forced induction can be very reliable as well if you build the bottom end right but that gets very costly very quickly. The other option is nitrous, but again that can be just as dangerous as forced induction and won't be on all the time. It is however the cheapest way out.
Ask yourself what you want to do, do you want to beat him at the track with a bottle or do you want to beat him all the time without having to fill up anything but the gas tank?
BTW, the biggest thing you have going for you is torque. I'll use my car as an example. HP follows torque and RPM, so if you have more torque for any given RPM you will make more HP at that same RPM. So a high peak HP doesn't necessarily mean squat, you've got to look at total HP, or the area under the curve. I make 365 rwhp on my latest dyno graph. He doesn't have torque on his graph, but you can figure it out mathematically if you want, but you don't really need to.
In his case at 2500 rpm's he's making less than 100 hp, I'm already making 150. By 3000 rpm's he's making 150 but I'm already making 181. Notice it's a smaller difference, his turbo is spooling up. By 3500 he's making what looks like 210, I'm making 220. By 4000 he's making what looks like about 275, I'm making 263. Finally he's making more power but it takes over half of the power band to do it. Ultimately he ends up peaking with more torque but hp wise he's not THAT much more than me. Yeah he'll probably win the race but it would be VERY close. Assuming I had traciton the extra torque would help accelerate me better (assuming of course that the car weight is the same)
So what does this mean? It means that for all his numbers, and yes they are impressive you can still make more power down low with a good old fashioned V8. Your friend's numbers are very impressive but I it's not that far out of reach for your car. If you can achieve the same peak HP you will probably end up doing it with a much more HP across the board. Essentially you can probably beat him in a race with less hp because you can put a lead on him from the start that will be hard to recover. Granted if he had enough time to catch up with you he would probably have a higher top speed, but most races don't last that long. :cheers:
[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 8:48 PM 1/28/2003]
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Re: OK guys i need some serious advice (Nathan Plemons)
good questions..... i guess i should be a little more specific.... i am not looking to BEAT him. i am looking at building a serious stroker motor in the future but dont want to start it now
i am just curious what is the best i can get NA no boost no juice. will porting and polishing the heads do me any good?
i am just curious what is the best i can get NA no boost no juice. will porting and polishing the heads do me any good?
#4
Re: OK guys i need some serious advice (1996man)
I just went back and added some more to my above post.
To answer your question porting and polishing won't hurt anything but you won't see the full benefit on the stock cam. Bang for the buck wise it won't be that much by themselves but you will ultimately need them as part of the total package.
If you're talking about building a stroker than my points above about torque become even more exagerrated. A lot of strokers dont' have huge peak HP numbers but they have so much low end torque that they are stupid fast. If I could keep my same peak 365 hp but do it with a stroker motor I'd have even more trouble with traction.
To answer your question porting and polishing won't hurt anything but you won't see the full benefit on the stock cam. Bang for the buck wise it won't be that much by themselves but you will ultimately need them as part of the total package.
If you're talking about building a stroker than my points above about torque become even more exagerrated. A lot of strokers dont' have huge peak HP numbers but they have so much low end torque that they are stupid fast. If I could keep my same peak 365 hp but do it with a stroker motor I'd have even more trouble with traction.
#5
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Re: OK guys i need some serious advice (Nathan Plemons)
His car weighs at least 200lbs more than yours. With a hotcam, headers and minor bolt ons you should be able to take him in the 1/4. If youre a good driver and he's so soo, you can make it a really close race as it is. Figure heads and cam LT4s are getting upwards of 380-400rwhp depending on cam choice among other things. 400rwhp with a set of deep gears and your car will be a screamer. :D
#6
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Re: OK guys i need some serious advice (Dr. Evil)
while this is very troo i am curious right now about what i can do without heads and cam
how much rwhp can i get with boltons?
how much rwhp can i get with boltons?