BIG JIM 54

COMVET...

What's a Deteoit?

This AirResearch .95 Turbocharger is off a Detriot Diesel, period. That is a fact. If you've read my entire post, you'd realize my device would only work at wide-open throttle. It work not work at idle by my design.

Your post is entirely non sequitur but thanks for taking the time to post.

I've posted this on the Forced-Induction/Nitrous Topic as well. Just to let you all know there's just the same amount intelligent remarks there.

I thank everyone for there time and feedback.

mistaben

Im to lazy to grab my physics book and look up all the exact technical information, but from the SOUNDS of it someone WILL be driving a selectively controlled electrically driven postive boost L98 soon!!
:party:
now, i do THINK just from listening you may short the motor from over heating/loading it. that is a lot of juice. but aside from that and probably going to need more juice in general, it sounds like a damn sound plan man. I give you credit on the idea, you are definately no "slow" man.

the part i like is the "selective" option.... :hurray: good luck, it sounds doable to me. and about the injectors, 24lb?

*uh oh, what am i saying, i was flipping out the other night when i started to pull my motor. :skep: :leaving:

Bruthish

[QUOTE

I may be in for a rude awakening and I'm not saying that's not a possibility. But to add more background info about myself, my full name is BIG JIM Greenemeyer. If any of you out there are into racing high-end radio-controlled electric cars, you probably have heard the name. I hope this doesn't sound pretentious but I am considered by many as the #1 authority in world on the electric motors that power these cars. I make my living now as a motor consultant to the big companies like Associated Electrics, Team Orion and Trinity Products. I've been building and designing toy car motors for 39 years and have a published book on the subject, BIG JIM'S R/C Motor Black Book" sold by Trafford Publishing. Just type "BIG JIM" in any search browser and my website will come up.
[/QUOTE]

Hey Jim......I have faith in you. Not to hi-jack your thread but I used to race R/C years ago. I raced for Team Cobra...don't even know if they still exist??? I raced along side of Woods racing up in Michigan right as they were getting started on their chassis designs. Anyways...it really does appear that you have all your ducks in a row on this and I can bet you will get it done! I will follow this one also!!!!
Chris

xs650

"I may be in for a rude awakening and I'm not saying that's not a possibility. But to add more background info about myself, my full name is BIG JIM Greenemeyer."

You might contact Garrett/AirResearch and ask them how much power it will take to pump the air you want to pump at the pressure you want to pump it using the compressor section you have. They can also tell you how fast you will have to spin the compressor to get what you want. If they respond they will also tell you that your compressor diameter is hopelessly mismatched to your engine. But what do they know, they are just a bunch of pointy headed engineers. :eek:

Assuming you don't blow them off as just more naysayers, that will give you your rude awakening now instead of later :jester

What you are proposing requires getting more work out of the compressor section that you are putting into it. Mother nature says :nono: :nono: :nono:

Dick

grandsportfan

be interesting to see. in theory it would work. my question is how are you going to get air when the "turbo" is not being spun by the electric motor. That thing has to be plummed into the throttle body. when it is shut off there is going to be no air going through to the throttle body. Have you figured out away to get air into the engine with the "turbo" off.

Best of luck, maybe you can make it work.


[Modified by grandsportfan, 8:12 PM 11/17/2003]

silver84

What is the 'power-gain-ratio' of a roots-type 'compressor?
with intercooling...
By that I mean, with, say, ten HP from an electrical source, to drive
a compressor, how
much additional power appears at the wheels?

gramercyjam

I'm not sure why you would want to tray and build a compressor from an electric motor. Easier to install? Cheaper? You imply instant boost is the driver, but would it really be worth it? It may make some HP, but it won't help efficiency, and that is what is so cool about exhaust driven turbos. They remove waste heat from the exhaust and convert that into usable output.

Also, your electrically driven compressor would compete directly with my soon-to-be-marketed-to-the-world low-budget nitro-powered 2-cycle turbo-charged leaf-blower-derived compressor-booster. Not good for my sales. :cry

Kidding aside, I think the direction for turbos is making them better and smarter. Working on ways to increase reliability, efficiency, reduce lag. I read about some technologies being instroduced that cut lag way down, if not eliminate it altogether.


[Modified by gramercyjam, 8:30 PM 11/20/2003]


[Modified by gramercyjam, 8:36 PM 11/20/2003]

George West

An electric charger is very appealing. It does not need to be driven off a belt or exhaust, so it can be mounted with great flexibility. I went through some quick numbers for available compressors, and 3 side by side large 12v leaf blowers can supply 1000 CFM at 1-2 PSI. At 6000 RPM a 350 will demand about 600 CFM, which 3 blowers could furnish at perhaps 3 PSIG. Lag will always be a problem, unless you spool up before the run. Power required is about 80 amps - a heavy duty alternator would be required.

There is a 100 amp 12 Volt 11" $500 blower used to evacuate smoke from burning buildings. It would work nicely at a pound or two, but 11"? Pretty tight squeeze!

George

TreyZ28

This might just be the worst idea i've ever heard.

Why?

1. if you want 5 or 6 lbs of boost in a chevy 350 witha turbo, you will have ZERO lag. Lag is only found when the engine size is relatively small compared to the turbo size.

5 or 6 lbs?

thats not even 0.4 barr. You can make 1 barr, no problem with zero lag in a V8 as large as a 350 (302s and 4.6's might have a TOUCH of difficulty).


As far as your single turbo thing-
why would it take longer to spool a single than a twin all things being equal?
half the engine spooling a smaller turbo or the whole engine spooling a bigger trubo. ::shrug::

single turbos are much better when possible. Ever wonder why RX7s and Supras are so quick to ditch twins for single?

8 exhaust pulses propperly timed are closer to a constant flow (which is what turbos like) than 4 puses in the same amount of time/rpm.

This is going to be the biggest distaster ever. :lurk:

(ps, A for effort. great idea and mentallity though, thumbs up for that) :cheers:

TreyZ28

ding- beat me to it.

you can overdrive the **** out of it, but the taller the gears, the more power you need :) Not to mention the increases strain on it because its fighting a 10:1 ratio. this is a problem a LOT of truck guys have with bigger tires. they need to go upto 4.56 gears just to be driveable.

TreyZ28

variable pitch fins :hurray:

JoBy

I did some calculations in Excel and if my calculations are right then the power required is less than I expexted.



This is the Excel file if anyone want's to verify the calculations or play with the numbers.
http://w1.605.telia.com/~u60513000/t...calc/boost.xls

eschoendorff

Go for it!!! I've wondered if this would be possible... Hope it works!

Darcane

I think it's awesome that someone is doing this on their own, but I have a feeling you may be a little disappointed once you get it all built. I think you may have to do a little redesigning before you get everything all ironed out.

You certainly aren't the first to try this though. Take a look at this article from last year: http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_visteon_eyes_electric/

Note that they have working systems that take 2kW to make 5.1-5.8 psi on a small displacement engine (I think they are referring to the 1.2L). To make the same pressure on your 5.7L engine, I'd guess you will need about 6-8kW and this kind of draw is probably going to quickly destroy those motorcycle batteries. Maybe look into a pair of deep cycle car batteries (like Optima yellow tops) and a larger/faster motor.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Darcane

Inertia. The rate at which you can radially accelerate something depends on the moment of inertia. The moment of inertia is based on the radius squared. So, if you were to double the size of the turbine and compressor wheels, the amount of energy required to spin them up would be four times as much. Two smaller turbos will be more efficient and have less lag because of this.

Single turbos are used because most of these guys are dyno queens that don't care about driveablity or actual acceleration, just peak horsepower. A single turbo is easier to install on an inline engine like the Supra. A pair of smaller turbos would be a better system (quicker spool up time), but it's more difficult to design and won't produce higher numbers on the dyno so nobody really cares.

What's that old joke... What does a 400hp Supra have in common with a 600hp Supra and an 800hp Supra? Answer: 13 second 1/4 mile time slips.

El Guapo

Maybe you should take a look at this thread: Electric Supercharger

TreyZ28

just get a real turbo. you wont have lag with any small boost levels.

dont like lag? spray out of the hole. end of story.

xs650

Does it bother anyone else that the powr and torque curves cross three times on the VW forum curves? The only way that could happen is an error in the dyno software or someone just faked the curves without understanding the relationship between torque and horsepower.

The torque is measured and the horsepower is calculated from the torque and rpm. HP = torque x rpm/5252. They are equal at 5252 rpm and 5252 rpm only.

Dick

TreyZ28

good catch. there and Zero are the ONLY times a tq curve and HP curve can EVER EVER EVER cross-
that does look a but MS paintish to me :lol:


[Modified by TreyZ28, 12:25 AM 11/25/2003]

George West

This Knight blower is interesting. It can supply almost 1/2 atmosphere boost at low airflows (2,500 RPM max), and could be expected to level off at 3-4 psig at max revs. They say that an alternator upgrade is needed, but that is not completely true. However the electric system does need to be able to support very high currents for 30 second periods.

It look likes it could fit, but when you add up the $$, it costs about as much as under-hood blower - and it cannot be run continuously.

Maybe the price will come down....

George