Wheelman

Just wondering what the general consensus on any of the major companies modified long tube runner and base systems are, is it worth it, or would i just be better off saving the extra $$ to go with a super ram?

Also which of the systems will flow the best?? There are several ones out there to choose from...

SLP Runners

TPIS Runners

AZ&M Runners

Accel Runners



[Modified by Wheelman, 5:25 PM 1/26/2004]

SurfnSun

You won't get much gain on a stock motor. The TPIS are made by ASM but they cost $100 more.

Accel are probably second best with the SLP bringing up the tail. The best thing about the ASM is the the runners are extruded where the Accel and SLP are rough cast.

If you wanted to buy the Accel and send them to Extrude Hone youd have some sweet runners for about 550-600. :eek:

With all that said, I wouldn't buy just a set of runners and throw them on. If you want to do a topend. Wait until you can put on an Accel base and port your plenum. Otherwise youre really going to feel like youve wasted your money. :cheers:

1MoorTym

Depends on what you want. A stock car is going to need help using those components, like a new cam and perhaps heads depending on your year.

The super ram flows the best, but some find their appearance less than appealing, me inlcuded, although I'd get the most power out of it I like the long tube look.

Out of the large tube runners, ASM or TPIS (same thing) flows the best. SLP or Accel runners are big clunky cast pieces, don't waste your time on them.

Just doing runners with nothing else is a waste of money.

Decide where your going performance wise and look at this as a complete system, one thing alone does not make it work well, but everything together does. Work out a plan of attack.

C4-Wolf

I had the SLP siamesed for a while and they were a nice little gain, but within 6 months I was replacing the whole setup with a miniram. The labor alone in removeing runners is substantial. If you think you may ultimately want more than a 10-20 hp increase you might as well hold off for a mini/super ram or other manifold replacement. My 2 cents from doing it the hard way.

USAsOnlyWay

I agree it should be a plan of attack. But I disagree that it will do nothing alone. Porting the plenum using a set of good LTRs and a new (or as has been proven LPE (I think) ported base) can actually net some gains. Not nearly what would be acheived with head and cam work. But it won't hurt. I believe you will feel an improvement especially in the higher end. But I would definitly recommend some other mods to accompany it.
Either way, have fun.
I am doing heads/as&m runners (with new base and porting) this summer myself! :thumbs:

RonRed89

If you plans don't call for heads and cam, then I wouldn't do the SuperRam. I was really disappointed with the SuperRam on a stock motor, and it really didn't wake it up until the heads and cam were done (this is pre 396 btw).

Vic'89 has shown gains with the ported base and AS&M runners. I believe that he was running a Big Mouth base, but check his sig. His times are listed after he made each mod to his car. He's also running high 12s with an almost stock L98 which is terrific.

Good luck,

Ron

65Z01

Vic'89 picked up around 15=20chp when he added the AS&M LT runners to his ACCEL base but he was had done the front Y, cat and cat-base as well as air filter area and a few other mods.

On a stock L98 I don't think a set of LT runners will show those numbers...it's the system.

If you are deciding between intake types you first need to define your goals, i.e. where do you want your engine to live.


[Modified by 65Z01, 7:21 PM 1/26/2004]

Red Tornado

when i first started out what mod(s) i was thinking of doing, most of my intial attempts ended in total breakdown and cranial failure :crazy: :lol: then i thought, what would happen if i added this ONE item or that ONE item? i thought to myself, "after all, its going to cost $400 or $500, so we don't wont to go too crazy. Keep in mind i'm making car payments, and since its just a 2 year loan (almost 1/2 way thru now), you can guess te payments aren't necessarily cheap. anyway, i found out one thing, no matter how you slice it: whatever path you're going, it has to somewhat mesh together as a system. what this translates to is this: you simply can't get away with concentrating on on part of the system without at least having plans to upgrade the rest, and then executing on that. so at the beginning i'm thinking i can get some power at $1,000 investment. that's right, but its WRONG. to get any REAL gains, which is what this game is all about, you should be prepared to shell out $2,000+ minimum in parts (intake - whatever that may be, full exhaust from head to toe, definitely a camshaft, and probably heads)....many people here, like me, aren't mechanics and rely heavily on the vette for transportation. that means you'll need a real, competent mechanic, so add another $1,500-2,000+ for labor (on all the systems) and you'll soon see that it often takes a solid average of about $4,000 to do this whole thing right.

now of course that assumes top grade parts and a top grade mechanic....so its done the right way the first time, and you'll be done with it.

if you're mechanically inclined to some degree - then go for it all, but be damned prepared for plenty of surprises, stoppages, frayed patience, probably mistakes that hopefully doesn't translate to disaster. if you're a good mechanic, then you're in good shape, there are again many here that are as well. bottom line: schucks like me have to pay to play for major mods, and i found out the budget kept creeping and that's normal. Good luck!

1990CORVETTE

:iagree: :iagree:

Man, I couldnt have said it any better than that........ I am in that phase right now,,, what mods to do what should I buy,,, I go back and forth back and forth..... I think I am just going to say the hell with it all and buy something for the vette that I can enjoy..... After all,,, mine is not a race car , nor will it ever be.... So what I am going to do is,,,,, for me,,, I will buy the vortex ram air system,,, it is so cool looking,,, get some outside window seals,,,, and mabey a Lingenfelter TB plate,,,, those are very :cool: .
So thats it.... I am going to stop trying to be the fastest vette in the world,,,,, now just mabey I can have the best looking vette in the world :lol: :lol: :thumbs:

bogus

<sniff> I am so proud...

shotchkiss

I don't know if they'd make much difference on a stock engine, but they wouldn't hurt it. If you're patient and wait, you can find good deals on some used parts on this site and others, intake parts don't really wear out, they're only moving air, then just wait until you have everything you need and do it all at once.

RonRed89

Common... You're not a shmuck....

Well, at least you're not the only shmuck. I'm no mechanic either.

Your post is dead on target.

Ron

TA

I don't have specific gains on each mod, but on my car I gained 38rwhp/68rwtq when I added AS&M runners, an Accel intake, FMS 24# injectors and 1.6 RRs.

Wheelman

:eek: Those are some nice gains!! My car is going in the shop for a shift kit/trans rebuild/2600 stall converter soon....i wonder if i could gain the same? What other mods do you have? and also would you happen to have a copy of that dyno sheet?

HeeHaw89

At least do a base, runners and some plenum porting. With a full exhaust set up you will feel a difference. Do it all at once to avoid unnecessary labor whether it be you or a mechanic.

TA

Here's a link that contains a scan of the dyno sheet. In this scan you'll see that the car is running a bit rich (I think due to the 24#injectors), but I've since I had a chip burned that took care of that problem. All my mods are listed in the sig, except for the minor stuff.......TB bypass, IAT relocation, low temp fan sensor, etc.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=608453

lead_foot

Wheelman, Don't mean to jump into your thread. But wanted to let you know that I have a list of parts I'm going to be selling. Just haven't posted yet. Had them on my 350 Firebird. Had it to the strip two or three times just for kicks. Best effort was 13.35 @104mph on street tires. The car ran great and passed emissions with flying colors. I'm building a 383 so using all new parts. Here's the list of what was on it.
Heads – Lingenfelter # CNC ported L98 Aluminum
Cam – Lingenfelter #74219 Hydraulic roller (219deg duration, .560 lift w/ 1.6rr)
Rocker Arms – Comp Cams Hi-Tech stainless roller rocker, 1.6 ratio
Intake Manifold – Accel SuperRam Base
Runners – Accel High Flow TPI Runners
Note: Manifold is port matched to heads and runners
Plenum – Stock, ported
Throttle Body – Stock, modified to 52mm by AZ Speed & Marine
Push Rods – Hardened for use with guide plates

If you're interested send me an email. :)

shotchkiss

See how easy it is to find parts. :)

CentralCoaster

If you guys want to have all the fun and none of the work, you gotta pay :smash: Personally, I find great enjoyment in the "labor" part of it.

alfonso gomez

Now that we are talking increasing HP without opening the engine: What do you think about this combo in a basically stock L98?:
TPIS Large Tube Runners
Our large tube aluminum runners are beautifully fabricated from aluminum tubing. They will give you a solid 10 HP gain. The average enthusiast will have a difficult time detecting these on your car. Runner gaskets included. Solid gains from 1600 to 5200 RPM. Guaranteed to out-perform any cast runners
Part # 3901
Price...$475.00

TPIS Big Mouth Manifold (base)
This design alows a replacement manifold that all the factory hardware will bolt onto - fuel log, injectors, thermostat housing, runners, EGR - and yet provide a dramatic improvement in air flow. It will give you a 22 HP increase on a stock 350 CID TPI motor; and there is room for major porting for the larger combinations.
Item # 3902
Price...$425.00

TPIS Ported Plenums
The shape of the entry is changed for maximum air flow. Core is required
Item # 3905
Price...$85.00

My car has a basically stock engine with the usual freebies and bolt-ons: TB air foil (I know, I know), bypassed TB coolant, no pre cats, 160 thermostat. Hypertech Thermomaster Chip (don't say it, it works for me), cut lid and K&N filter, cut back spark plug electrodes. If viable, with the parts listed above I plan on installing 1.6 Roller Rockers.

Headers later, but what can I expect from this setup? The car is my daily driver. It has the stock 700R4 tranny and 3.07 gears.
I dont trust too much seller's HP gains. Any ideas?

PS: I got my butt kicked by an aging fellow driving a Firebird Trans-Am with a 6-speed tranny just last week.



[Modified by alfonso gomez, 11:22 AM 1/29/2004]