Da Mail Man

Greetings,

With Info Provided Me In The C-4 Discussion Area Of The Forum, I Was Able To Rebuild The Damaged Diaphragm For The Drivers Seat Air Pump.

When I Started, I Noticed That The Vacuum Line Connectors Were All Damaged So, I "spliced Them Out" Using Some Extra Vacuum Line. The Pump Is Working Fine And Is Pumping Air Out From The Lines.

I Have Looked In My Helms Manual And Have Not Found Any Listing Or Diagrams For The Vacuum Lines For The Lumbar Section Of These Seats. I Know Where And To What Section Of The Seats The Lines Go To But, Since There Are 3 Lines To The Lumbar Section(s), Is There Any Order As To Where On The Vacuum "connectors" These Lines Go. Anyone Have A Diagram?

I Can Hear The Pump Activate But, Do Not Feel The Lumbar Bladder Inflate. Since The Hole(s) For The Air Lines Are Small To The Bladder, How Long Does It Take For The Bladders To Pump Up?
I Have Also Noticed That The Lumbar Switch Has Two Positions, Both Of Which Activate The Lumbar Pump. Which Position Does What?

Lastly, Should I Find That The Lumbar Bladders Are Leaking, Is There A Repair Procedure For That?......thanks!

65Z01

The three lines to the bladders go to the three bleed buttons; top to top, etc., bottom to bottom.

It's likely that the bladders are leaking due to deterioration with age. You can get new bladders from Contemporary Corvette (link on my site). To replace them requires cutting the hog rings up either side of the of the seat back to separate the back leather from the sides and cutting the hog rings from the lower rear. Then the hog rings holding the bladder in position can be cut and the bladder replaced.

This job ain't pretty but it just takes some time, hog ring plyers, dykes to cut the hog rings and several dozen new hog rings to do a seat.

The bladder should pump up fully in maybe 5-10sec or so; you can hear the air going in and see the seat back swell up, or feel it if sitting on the seat.

Da Mail Man

THANKS FOR REPLY!...I HAVE (OR HAD) TWO LOOSE "CABLES" OF VACUUM LINES CONSISTING OF 3 LINES THAT WERE INTO A CONNECTOR. THEY APPARENTLY PLUGGED INTO ONE ANOTHER BEFORE THEY DETERIORATED. THERE IS NO WAY OR DESIGNATION AS TO WHAT ORDER THEY ARE IN AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THEY WERE DETACHED.

THE SET I AM INQUIRING ABOUT IS THE SET THAT RUNS FROM THE PUMP TO THE BLEEDER CONTROLS AS THE ONES FROM THE BLEEDER CONTROLS TO THE LUMBAR BLADDER ARE "COLOR CODED" AND NOT REALLY AN ISSUE.

HOWEVER, SINCE EACH CONNECTOR HAS 3 LINES (PUMP TO BLEEDER CONTROLS), WHICH ORDER DO THEY GO INTO THEIR MATES OR DOESN'T IT MATTER? THE SWITCH THAT ACTIVATES THE LUMBAR HAS TWO POSITIONS (UP AND DOWN) WHICH BOTH ACTIVATE THE PUMP FOR THE LUMBAR BLADDER. WHICH POSITION DOES WHAT?

LASTLY, IS THERE A TECH TIP ON THIS SUBJECT AND WHERE?.....THANKS!

65Z01

For test purposes it doesn't matter in which order the three lines are connected as a swapped line will only deflate the wrong bladder segment. Maybe you can get the color code and correct hookup from the other seat. I've heard that aquarium tubing can be used here and that it can be gotten in colors too.

The inflate button inflates all three bladder segments at once when you rock it. Once all are inflated you can use any of the three buttons to deflate the desired segment(s) to suit you fit.

If you have the tubing connected and know the pump is pumping air, I suspect the tubing at the bladder and/or the bladder has deteriorated so that it leaks.

Da Mail Man

THANKS FOR REPLY,

YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD ME. I DON'T NEED ANY COLOR CODING AT ALL. THE LINES THAT RUN FROM THE BLADDER BLEEDERS TO THE BLADDER ARE CODED SO, AS I SAID EARLIER, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE.

I ALSO SAID THE THE LINES FROM THE PUMP TO THE BLADDER BLEEDER CONTROLS ARE NOT COLOR CODED AND I AM UNSURE OF THE ORDER IF THAT IS CRITICAL. HOWEVER, BASED IN PART ON YOUR RESPONSE, IT APPEARS NOT CRITICAL.

I DON'T NEED ANY VACUUM LINES AS I SAID BEFORE, I HAD ALREADY REPAIRED THAT SECTION OF IT BY MY OWN MEANS SO, THAT TOO IS NOT AN ISSUE, ONLY THE PLACEMENT ORDER OF THE LINES FROM THE PUMP TO IT'S MATE AT THE BLADDER BLEEDER CONTROL WAS THE UNCERTAINTY.

AS FOR THE ROCKER SWITCH ON THE SEAT, AGAIN, THIS SWITCH ACTIVATES THE PUMP FOR THE BLADDER IN BOTH THE UP AND THE DOWN POSITIONS. MY QUESTION WAS SPECIFICALLY, WHAT HAPPENS OR WHAT GETS ACTIVATED WITH THE SWITCH IN THE UP POSITION?...THE DOWN POSITION?.....

AND "YES" I AM POSITIVE THE PUMP IS PUMPING AIR. I WAS WONDERING, OTHER THEN THE BLADDER MAYBE BEING BAD, IF THE CONNECTION OF TUBING TO THE BLADDER COULD HAVE BECOME DETACHED OR DETERIORATED AS IN THE ONES LOCATED AT THE PUMP...........THANKS FOR REPLY!

65Z01

The rocker in either the up or down position is the same function, to fill the three bladder sections.

It is quite possible that either the bladder could be leaking or that the tubes could be split where they connect to the bladder. On my '88 both conditions were true.

If you use a small mirror with the seat moved full forward and the seat back forward, you may be able to see some of the tube connections to the bladder to inspect them. Maybe the bottom one or two can be seen with a little effort but don't think the top one without cutting some hog rings.

Good luck.

Da Mail Man

THANKS AGAIN FOR REPLY. I HAVE SEEN PICTURES ON WEBSITES OF THE BLADDER AND I WAS WONDERING IF THE VACUUM LINE(S) CONNECTION TO THE BLADDER LINES IN THE SEAT BACK WAS ACCESSIBLE AS I WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE THAT BEFORE I DECIDE TO GO FARTHER.

ISN'T THERE A "LATCH" OR SOMETHING TO REMOVE THE SEAT BACK. ON MY 81, I HAD TO FORCE THE SEAT BACK CUSHION DOWN TO RELEASE IT FROM A "IMMOVABLE" LATCH. ANY IDEAS?

AGENT 86

My manual has pics of air lines to bladder. Let me know if still want them.

Da Mail Man

SURE DO!........IS IT A HELMS MANUAL?....FOR AN 88?.........I COULD NOT FINE IT IN MINE!

AGENT 86

http://members.shaw.ca/dankai/Lumbar%20Support.pdf
Just finished uploading for you
It's from 86 manual. Should be similar

65Z01

Sorry but there is no easy way to access our seat backs. You may note that with the sport seat the side bolsters wrap around and are stapled "from the inside"; I can hardly wait to install new seat covers.

I had my seats out to get to the air lines into the bladder but thought the mirror trick "might" work with the seat still in the car. If not you will have to pull the seat (not a hard job) and take it to the bench.

Da Mail Man

Greetings All And Thanks For All Your Input!!

I Tugged On The Lines That Disappear Into The Lumbar Section Of The Back Seat Cushion To The Lumbar Bladders. Just As I Suspected, The "connector" That Connects The Air Lines To The Bladder Was Disintegrated Just Like The Others!...now Comes The Problem;

How The #@$#@@ Do I Remove The Back Cushion Of The Sport Seat? In The 81 Vette It Was Simply By Pushing Down On The Top Of The Cushion Which "undid" A "wire Rail" From A Retainer.

For The Gentleman Who Sent Me The Pdf File Diagram On The Seat Air Line Assembly, Thanks!...where Did You Get That In Pdf Form As Opposed To Out Of The Manual?

Gentelman, I Am Almost There! Give Me Some Good News About Removing ( Or At Least Leaning) The Seat Back Cushion Or A Section Nearest The Center Console So That I Can Repair The Broken Connection!

dwestsr

I just finished a complete rebuild of my driver's side seat: new motor , lumbar,switches, plumbing etc. Sounds like your lumbar bladder is kaput. Mine was in a thousand pieces. The only way to access it is to cut the hog rings at the bottom of the seat back( these rings also anchor the bottom of the bladder). you will also need to cut the rings holding the side bolsters to the seat back center section , at least up to the first indentation. That is where the top of the bladder is attached along with the seat cover. I would try to replace the baldder without removing the seat back if possible because to remove it you will need to cut all the hog rings up both sides of the seat back inorder to release the bolsters which are stapled to the seat pan. If you need to remove the seat back, there are two clips at the top (each side under the head rest) and two at the middle of the seat back near where the bolster activation cable is attached. In order to release them I used a miniature crow bar to slip in behind the seat back and push the wire off the clip . Once one side is loose, the other will release by pulling the seat back the opposite way. I would start with the top as it is much easier and when released, it will help reveal the middle set. I know it is difficult to visualize from this description , but you almost have to have done it to understand. If I can help you further please email me and I will give it my best shot. dwestsr@carolina.rr.com . Good Luck

Da Mail Man

THANKS FOR THE REPLY!!,

I WILL GIVE THIS A SHOT LATER IN THE WEEK. DO YA THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE LOOSE THE SIDE/SECTION NEAREST THE CENTER CONSOLE? IF I CAN GRAB/REACH THE CONNECTOR WHERE THE VACUUM LINES CONNECT TOGETHER BEHIND THE SEAT BACK CUSHION, I HAVE A GOOD CHANCE OF THIS NOT TURNING INTO A MAJOR PROJECT!.....HEY, THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP/ADVICE!

AGENT 86

I put my whole manual into pdf
I'm surprized your manual doesn't show this. I took it out of 8A electrical diagnostics, power seats.

Da Mail Man

YA MEAN YOU SCANNED THE ENTIRE MANUAL INTO YOUR COMPUTER THEN, CONVERTED IT TO PDF?

rick lambert

Have you checked-I think someone posted about this in the tech tips.

Da Mail Man

I NEVER FIGURED OUT HOW TO GET THERE!

Da Mail Man

DARN IT!......I JUST FOUND IT!

AGENT 86