ScottC95ZR1

Yes I do!

ScottC95ZR1

Yes I do!

xlr8nflorida

Many people run Kumhos at the track because they're cheap affordable tires with good performance for their price point.

Kumho has good dry traction but has **** poor wet traction. Tread wear is not really good....and as the Kuhmo tires wear down, they became more and more noisy and many people get **** tire life out of them.

Furthermore, once they get some decent mileage on them, many people really start to dislike them. There are a good number of people who have run Kumhos once, and won't go back to them again. I am one of them.

That being said, all my other tires have embarrassed the Kumho's in overall handling and grip. They probably should have in Kumho's defense as they were double the cost.

Kumho's are a good value tire for the money, they are far from a top performer.

It appears the XS are one of their better tires and a better performer but I won't go the Kumho route again.

xlr8nflorida

You do realize that you always come across as Smug?

Yeah, I thought Kumho was a specific tire

Aurora40

If this is the part where we share feelings, you always come across as pompous and opinionated.

So you were actually saying that the GS-D3 is better in any and every respect than any Kumho tire ever made? I'm sure you'd know, though, you had a pair of Kumhos once...

digg101

thanks for the discussion gentlemen didn't mean to start any name throwing. I have 10 inch and 12inch fikse fm/5's. i hope the car never encounters rain and hope to drive it 3 or 4 thousand miles a summer.One concern is the limited milage and while stored in a controlled environment how does any tire stand up to hardening because of age?

xlr8nflorida

Aurora40 If this is the part where we share feelings, you always come across as pompous and opinionated.



That's nice - plenty have met me on this forum and I am far from it.

Yes, I do have an opinion and its based off of my personal experience as opposed to your one liners and rolling eye faces.

I'll post it again for you since I made several valid points:

Many people run Kumhos at the track because they're cheap affordable tires (VALUE) with good performance for their price point. Kumho typically has good dry traction but has **** poor wet traction. Tread wear is not really good....and as the Kuhmo tires wear down, they became more and more noisy and many people get **** poor tire life out of them.
Furthermore, once they get some decent mileage on them, many people really start to dislike them. There are a good number of people who have run Kumhos once, and won't go back to them again. I am one of them. That being said, all my other tires have embarrassed the Kumho's in overall handling and grip. They probably should have in Kumho's defense as they were double the cost. Kumho's are a good value tire for the money, they are far from a top performer.

It appears the XS are one of their better tires and a better performer but I won't go the Kumho route again.

Furthermore to add to that post:

The wet grip is limited on the XS and Tread wear will also set in faster than what you’re use to on an UHP tire. But that’s the trade-off. If you live in a dry, warm climate and R-compound grip with reasonable pricing then I could see why some people might check them out.

Based off of my experience, I will not. I'd rather pay the additional money and have a top performing tire.

If tires were free, and driver's wanted the most performance, would they pick Kumho?

And for the record, I didn't have a set of Kumho's on my car ONCE as you smugly point out.

I stated that I currently have a set of Kumho's on one of my Corvettes now.

Aurora40

You are a crack-up man. Sure, let's have a reasonable discussion now, since you are all about being factual and open-minded to other opinions.

You have one set of Kumho tires, and you are comparing them as if they represent all Kumho tires. Are the tires on your car Kumho XS's? If not, who gives a **** what you think of some random other Kumhos. How is that relevant to anything? Saying your point is valid doesn't make it so.

You say many people run them on the track because they are cheap. Really? Can you name any of those people? I'm not so arrogant as to state that I know why racers use what they use. However, I am able to think for myself, and I find it unlikely (though I'm open-minded to real opinions from real racers) that people in real competition would buy what you describe as a mediocre tire just to save a few bucks. I suspect when you reach a certain level and have enough tied up in a race in terms of car, fees, transport, etc, you are going to pay what it costs for competitive tires.

Then you talk about wet weather handling... I don't think anyone has suggested they are good in rain. Nor did the OP suggest rain handling was relevant or important. And to top it off, you suggested drag radials as an alternative. Is it because in your vast experience you have found drag radials to be excellent rain tires?

You state many of your opinions as if they were facts:

- Kumhos won't hook up good
- Racers only buy Kumhos because they are cheap
- Kumhos are far from a top performer (apparently you did more thorough testing that Car and Driver, because they were pretty close to a top performer for them)
- all Kumhos are worse than GS-D3's

Care to substantiate any of these? You stated them so unequivocally, it should be no problem for you to back them up with facts.

I don't particularly care what tires the guy ends up buying. He doesn't have to buy what I would buy for me to feel validated. I don't own Kumhos or have any love for them. But you want to make this personal...

Aurora40

To keep this on-track, or at least helpful to you, it sounds like you'd be a prime candidate for a grippy, dry-only tire with a fast wear rate/short life. If you want 285/335's, and the pirelli's are too pricey, you've only got the XS's remaining.

If you aren't sold on that size, there are a few more alternatives that come into play, the Nittos, and some cheaper tires like the Sumi's and Vredsteins.

xlr8nflorida

Yeah, I know a ton of people who run the Kumho's at SCCA events and my neighbor runs them on his Cobra because he eats up tires left and right and they are an affordable tire.

Or just look in this thread:

The newest Kuhmo XS street tire is a tremendous value & a huge leap in performance over MX series.
--but they do suck in the wet.

Proof that the MX were not very good and proof that the XS is not good in the rain.

You are not living in the real world. People buy inexpensive tires for the track and drag racing all the time because $ doesn't grow on trees. Guys who are not "big time" racers yet also get sponsored by kumho so they run them.

- Kumhos won't hook up good

Kumho's don't hook up that good compared to other tires I have owned.

- Racers only buy Kumhos because they are cheap

Price is a big draw for alot of them, bang for the buck is what I hear often.

- Kumhos are far from a top performer (apparently you did more thorough testing that Car and Driver, because they were pretty close to a top performer for them)

I don't see them in the top slots, however i see Michelin and others in those slots all day long. Does the current ZR-1 come on Kumho's? No

- all Kumhos are worse than GS-D3's

The GSD-3 has the best all around performance both dry and wet.

Aurora40

You seem to be unable to distinguish the difference in a fact and an opinion. The only fact you posted was the new ZR1 does not come on Kumhos. Interestingly it also doesn't come on GS-D3's, nor Nitto drag radials. Nor in fact does it come on a tire offered in the 285/335 size the OP inquired about. So the only actual fact you just provided is one that is irrelevant to the discussion.

Every time I take you off my ignore list, you remind me again why I added you there in the first place.

xlr8nflorida

[QUOTE=Aurora40;1573337131]You seem to be unable to distinguish the difference in a fact and an opinion. The only fact you posted was the new ZR1 does not come on Kumhos. Interestingly it also doesn't come on GS-D3's, nor Nitto drag radials. Nor in fact does it come on a tire offered in the 285/335 size the OP inquired about. So the only actual fact you just provided is one that is irrelevant to the discussion.


Actual I added lots of facts and information that you conveniently ignored.

Show me several tests where their individual tires are # 1 perhaps even # 2 with other major tire players.

Furthermore, do you have all the tires mentioned and do you drive them on a weekly basis like I do?

Yeah, and you have no common sense.

Corvettes, BWM, Audi, Ferrari etc.

Do they come on Kumho's?

Why not? It's such a top performing tire and cheap.

Kumho is ranked the 9th in the world tire industry.

They are still proving their brand in the world market. To their credit, MB just picked up their tires as OEM in Europe.

Aurora40

Why would I need to provide you with several tests, or expound upon my tire ownership history? I never made any absolute claims about how tires compare.

I pointed out most of your "facts" are just arrogant opinions. And that your actual facts, like which tires are used by major manufacturers, are irrelevant.

You make numerous flawed conclusions like that if the XS tire is an improvement over the MX, then the MX must be crap. Apparently only crap can be improved upon? Or that if Kumhos are affordable for racing, that must be the only positive thing about them. Apparently a tire can't be both great performing and affordable? Whether or not the MX is crap or Kumho tires' only positive is cost, your arguments are all logical fallacies.

You seem to assume from all this that I have a similarly arrogant opposite assertion. But I don't. I never tried to state absolutely that one brand of tire was absolutely, and by any metric, better than another. Nor that I was an expert on all things tires. So I don't need to provide any evidence to support those assertions.

If you consider the irrational way you argue to be evidence of common sense, then I will take it as a compliment that you think I have none. I suppose your sense is "common", in as much as it seems to be pretty common to lack logical reasoning skills.

xlr8nflorida

You make numerous flawed conclusions like that if the XS tire is an improvement over the MX, then the MX must be crap.

Interesting..... Flawed Conclusions? Oh Really?

I guess You don't believe me or the comments George made in this thread about the XS being much improved over the MX. Just Opinion, Flawed Conclusions right?

Here digest this:

Source: Car & Driver Review

1st Place - GSD-3

11th Place - Kumho Ecsta MX (LAST PLACE)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...csta_mx_page_2

Why don't you tell me the MX is a good tire now Smug one?

11th place out of 11

Yeah, its quality alright and only the 3rd cheapest tire of the bunch.

GSD-3 1st Place

I'm done arguing with you. I've stated my personal experiences in this thread already about both MX & XS.

Let the OP buy whatever tires he so chooses.

Aurora40

At this point, I can only suggest you contact your local Community College and see if they offer a course on logic or discrete math. I really don't know what else to say, it's as if you were trying to suggest 1+1=3. If you think that, no amount of reasoning with you will be productive.

Your conclusion is flawed based on the reasoning you presented. Now you go and dig up a Car and Driver comparison test as if that was your logic all along, but it wasn't. I never suggested the Ecsta MX was a good tire. Again, you assume if people disagree with your logic, they must agree with the opposite of your conclusion. I don't have to have any opinion on the MX to have an opinion on the way you've made your argument. This also only addresses one example of many.

And I certainly don't disbelieve George. His opinion was quite well presented, and I suspect quite useful to the OP who is contemplating the very tires George has used.

I'm glad to hear you are done arguing with me. It gets tedious to reply to you, because you just change your argument as you go. It is very clear that you are no longer supporting your contention that all Kumhos are poor tires. Instead you are pointing out how the MX did worse in a comparison than the GS-D3. Unfortunately, no one ever suggested the MX was a good tire or that the OP should buy them. They don't even come in sizes the OP asked about. You just pretend like this was your argument all along. You haven't admitted you were wrong for your stupid blanket comparison about all Kumho's, and you haven't apologized to the two people who have real experience (unlike yours) with the tire in question, the Ecsta XS. You just move on and pretend whatever the last thing you said was your real argument.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Well, that may be true, but XLR8 stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, and we all know that trumps everything and gives him qualifications almost as luminous as mine!

Many years of experience have demonstrated that the best tires are round, black, and fully inflated!
Beyond that I can make a poor tire look good, and a great tire look poor.
Now let's stop clouding perfectly good opinions with silly facts.
Maybe XLR8's assometer was all the qualification or criteria required.
Buy what you like and enjoy it!
You will never change anyone's religion, political choice, or their car and component choice. It just does not happen!

Marty
1FUNZR1

xlr8nflorida

Maybe XLR8's assometer was all the qualification or criteria required.
Buy what you like and enjoy it!
You will never change anyone's religion, political choice, or their car and component choice. It just does not happen!

Marty
1FUNZR1
[/QUOTE]



Exactly, but apparently I'm not qualified to rate the tires on my cars.

USAFPILOT

Take a look at the NEW Nitto NT-05. It is available at discount tire...you wont see it on Tire Rack.

I just put them on my A Molds and they feel great to me. They are a softer compound than the D3 and come with 3mm less tread depth. The width is just as wide as the D3. They have a mean look to them.

Ignore this argument going on about the Khumo vs D3...blah blah blah.

I put D3's on my previous car and they were great tires also, but if you don't need the wet grip you don't need the D3...save yourself 500 bucks and get the NT-05.

I'll try to get a pic of the NT-05 for you if you want.

TA

Here's a pic, although they don't come in either of the sizes the OP said he was looking for

solid dobe

I will be watching/listening for your long-term happiness with the NT-05's. As a huge GS D3 fan, (I do drive in the rain) I am the first to admit I don't love the pricing nor the fact that they can be hard to get occasionally. $500 would go a long ways toward other mods.
A pic (if it is easy) would be great...I still refer people to the comparison picture of the Summito's next to the GS D3's.

edit: Thanks TA