C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news
10-12-2011, 01:37 AM
#21
Safety Car
I was at a local dealership looking over a 2010 Z06 that was on the used lot. For sh.ts and grins I asked what a 91 ZR1 with 19k was worth. I was surprised with the answer, it went something like this:
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
"The old C4 ZR-1's are yesterdays news, antique technology compared to the new Z06's and ZR1's. Even a standard vette would eat them for lunch. He went on to say about how impossible it is to get parts for those relics. He also quipped "if you had a C4 Gransport with LT4 I might be interested" and mentioned how rare they are. Then the killing blow, "the bottom is falling out of the C4 ZR1's on ebay and everywhere else, no one wants them."
Well, as a proud current C4 ZR1 owner and lover I was a bit insulted. Granted, what would I expect, I am dealing with a used car salesmen. Not that I would trade the ZR1 for the Z06 but was just considering adding the Z06 to the stable. Needless to say I left and was a little unsettled.
To a degree he was correct about the dropping C4 ZR1 values. It is a shame the original king of the hill is getting much less respect now with the newer Z06's ZR1 and the new Camaro's megahorse power.
It is what it is... as bb62 said, tomorrow's technology that never was. But it's still the most exotic engine ever installed in a Corvette from the factory. And it's a high water mark for Corvette, both technologically and from a public relations standpoint.
The ZR-1 was the first modern day American supercar. Suddenly the Europeans were not laughing. I remember seeing a story on the local news about a guy who paid handsomely over sticker to be the first in town to own one. I was in college in 1990 and I remember a Polo green/saddle 1990 that GM had on tour, displayed on the University of New Mexico campus. And I remember how in awe I was of that car, and how I thought I'd never be able to own one (I now have a red/saddle '90).
The C4 ZR-1 is etched into the American consciousness as very few modern cars are. Recently a construction guy came to my house to give me a quote on some work. I had the garage door open and he noticed the emblem on the rear of the Corvette. He asked, "Is that really a ZR-1?" He couldn't have been more than about 25 years old, but he knew what the car was.
Oh, and as for "the bottom falling out" on C4 ZR-1's, I would have smiled sweetly and asked him what he thought that Z06 would be worth in about five years, compared to the asking price today.
10-12-2011, 02:50 AM
#22
Race Director
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I'm kinda looking for a C4 ZR1 for its historic value, but I don't think it will be much of a match for my 2011 Grand Sport. If you think different, bring your STOCK ZR1, and your five grand, and be prepared to get your *** handed to you.
10-12-2011, 07:49 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
I dont have any numbers to post but im confident a C5 ZO6 with 405hp will outrun a 405hp ZR1 from 93 to 95 from 0 to 60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, full mile and even from a roll from 50 to 150. The ZR1 will beat it on top end by a few mph, but that is only because of the gearing of the cars.
We're not talking about modded cars here. I can spend cubic money and beat anything you want to put up against me. That's not the point.
I'm kinda looking for a C4 ZR1 for its historic value, but I don't think it will be much of a match for my 2011 Grand Sport. If you think different, bring your STOCK ZR1, and your five grand, and be prepared to get your *** handed to you.
I'm kinda looking for a C4 ZR1 for its historic value, but I don't think it will be much of a match for my 2011 Grand Sport. If you think different, bring your STOCK ZR1, and your five grand, and be prepared to get your *** handed to you.
I guess stock for stock, an LT5 would spin big time on its 20 year old tires, but the C5Z wouldn't move at all due to a column lock issue. I think some reasonable/common modifications can still be relevant to compare.
And dollar for dollar, the LT5 is beginning to really shine. You could pick up a $13k ZR-1, and have 5 grand to spend on mods to even it up with a C5Z. For what your Grand Sport cost, you could spend about $30k on changes, though it would probably only take about $2k to run your GS down. The C4 is never going to ride as nice as a C5, have as many features, etc. But it doesn't cost anywhere as much. And by the time it does, the C5/6 will be "yesterdays news" as well.
Last edited by Aurora40; 10-12-2011 at 07:52 AM.
10-12-2011, 07:54 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
To the OP, I thought this thread title was going to be a clever pun, and feature some article from a day-old newspaper. Oh well. It's funny that dealer would go ape-**** for a Grand Sport after knocking the ZR-1. But I suppose hash-mark technology has stayed pretty much the same?
10-12-2011, 07:57 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
I'm local... what dealer was this? (I'll be sure to stay away!)
It is what it is... as bb62 said, tomorrow's technology that never was. But it's still the most exotic engine ever installed in a Corvette from the factory. And it's a high water mark for Corvette, both technologically and from a public relations standpoint.
The ZR-1 was the first modern day American supercar. Suddenly the Europeans were not laughing. I remember seeing a story on the local news about a guy who paid handsomely over sticker to be the first in town to own one. I was in college in 1990 and I remember a Polo green/saddle 1990 that GM had on tour, displayed on the University of New Mexico campus. And I remember how in awe I was of that car, and how I thought I'd never be able to own one (I now have a red/saddle '90).
The C4 ZR-1 is etched into the American consciousness as very few modern cars are. Recently a construction guy came to my house to give me a quote on some work. I had the garage door open and he noticed the emblem on the rear of the Corvette. He asked, "Is that really a ZR-1?" He couldn't have been more than about 25 years old, but he knew what the car was.
Oh, and as for "the bottom falling out" on C4 ZR-1's, I would have smiled sweetly and asked him what he thought that Z06 would be worth in about five years, compared to the asking price today.
It is what it is... as bb62 said, tomorrow's technology that never was. But it's still the most exotic engine ever installed in a Corvette from the factory. And it's a high water mark for Corvette, both technologically and from a public relations standpoint.
The ZR-1 was the first modern day American supercar. Suddenly the Europeans were not laughing. I remember seeing a story on the local news about a guy who paid handsomely over sticker to be the first in town to own one. I was in college in 1990 and I remember a Polo green/saddle 1990 that GM had on tour, displayed on the University of New Mexico campus. And I remember how in awe I was of that car, and how I thought I'd never be able to own one (I now have a red/saddle '90).
The C4 ZR-1 is etched into the American consciousness as very few modern cars are. Recently a construction guy came to my house to give me a quote on some work. I had the garage door open and he noticed the emblem on the rear of the Corvette. He asked, "Is that really a ZR-1?" He couldn't have been more than about 25 years old, but he knew what the car was.
Oh, and as for "the bottom falling out" on C4 ZR-1's, I would have smiled sweetly and asked him what he thought that Z06 would be worth in about five years, compared to the asking price today.
Very good!
All new cars depreciate.
No exceptions.
Once you could pick up a tri power mid year for a song when compared to today.
All cars hit a bottom then begin their climb back up.
While my ZR-1 is the best Corvette that I have ever owned, I would never be foolish enough to say it is the best Corvette ever.
When someone brags about their Grand Sport or ZO6 being faster or newer tech or something else, and make that sound as if theirs is "better", one must laugh at their foolishness.
I never recall walking up to a big block mid year or a 57 fuelie and saying something like " wow, my technology or speed is light years ahead of yours, and that makes me better". The thought simply would not have entered my mind.
Foolishness.
Spoken by fools.
Those words usually can be heard in a playground, but grown ups should be a bit more on the ball.
I am glad that you love whatever Corvette you own, as you certainly should.
I love them all.
New, old, ALL!
Save the BS talk for when you meet a salesman as poor as the one the OP spoke of. I would not let him sell a bicycle let alone a Corvette. The two of you can then tell each other how great your car is and how sh*tty everyone else's is.
I know some intelligent and great salespeople. That was certainly not one of them.
Enjoy them all; That is what it is all about.
Marty
1FUNZR1
10-12-2011, 08:03 AM
#27
Le Mans Master
Echoing what Marty just said, maybe you can explain what the point is? It sounds like your point, and pink box's point, is that only the newest generation Corvette is worth owning/money/etc. Obviously they only improve. The newer Corvettes will almost always be better than the ones they replace, otherwise why bother?
But I think you will be in the minority if you think that means that older Corvettes have no value, performance, or impressive features.
But I think you will be in the minority if you think that means that older Corvettes have no value, performance, or impressive features.
10-12-2011, 08:50 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
I have hundreds of races under my belt at the track and on the street and I can say I have NEVER seen a stock C4 ZR1 outrun a stock C5Z06 with the 405hp package.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-12-2011, 09:31 AM
#29
Team Owner
I have hundreds of races under my belt at the track and on the street and I can say I have NEVER seen a stock C4 ZR1 outrun a stock C5Z06 with the 405hp package.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-12-2011, 09:34 AM
#30
Team Owner
P.S you should have been around a few years ago. These races took place every weekend. Back when the forum had a race section, those vids were what dominated that section.
10-12-2011, 10:39 AM
#31
Safety Car
I have hundreds of races under my belt at the track and on the street and I can say I have NEVER seen a stock C4 ZR1 outrun a stock C5Z06 with the 405hp package.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
I played with a 2003 Z and he jumped a car on me. wasn't pulling away, but physics is physics and the engine displacement is the same- at sea level the C5-Z is a faster car up to 100 mph. Until I see otherwise, my experience matches yours.
10-12-2011, 11:08 AM
#33
Tech Contributor
I dunno, Ive seen a few C5 Z06s azzes kicked now by ZR-1s. But Im sure they are far from stock but so are 90% of most C5 Z06s on the road by now. Gee I wonder why they are being modded now too?
Stock to stock the weight on the C5 Z06 is the main factor the rest is left seat failure of the operators.
Stock to stock the weight on the C5 Z06 is the main factor the rest is left seat failure of the operators.
Last edited by Goldcylon; 10-12-2011 at 11:23 AM.
10-12-2011, 11:15 AM
#34
Tech Contributor
. Now go away and play with your pushrod in your little pink box. 
10-12-2011, 11:45 AM
#36
I have hundreds of races under my belt at the track and on the street and I can say I have NEVER seen a stock C4 ZR1 outrun a stock C5Z06 with the 405hp package.
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And until I see it, it wont happen.
I have better things to do than debate this.
8388 since you have hundreds of races under your belt post a video of your stock C4 ZR1 our running a stock 405hp C5ZO6 and i'll be a believer.
Until then, its all hot air under the crammed C4 hood!
Im waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TRUTH BOMB BITCH!
take your crying *** bench racing somewhere else.
385 vs 385 cars and I won, suck on that little boy
10-12-2011, 12:23 PM
#37
Corvette Fever did this exact race back when the C5 Z06 came out and they said it came down to the drivers.
The C5 Z06 has edge and is a better car as a result of being lighter, better frame and advances in technology.
Regardless, the ZR-1 holds its own, set world records and is still very respectable today. A few mods get you in the 450 hp range and not many cars run around with 450 plus or at least I don't seem them - maybe I live with the old folks
I've had my ZR-1 12 years, its still worth what I paid for it and I wouldn't change it for the world.
The ones where the bottom fell out is where they are driven up and used with a lot of mileage or in sad shape or had multiple owners.
Cars that were purchased and in pristine shape about 10 years ago were in the 30-40K range and they still bring 20-30k if lower mileage and perfect shape. Where else can you drive a car for 10+ years and lost $1,000 a month. In my case, I will have lost nothing or perhaps a few grand for enjoyment of a Corvette for 10+ years.
You can't let a handful of auctions or ebay rough cars tick you off. The deals are not always a deal. I have 3 Corvettes always looking to buy another ZR-1 that is a steal. The ones that are in the teens are not up to par for me but maybe I'm picky.
I have a C5, it means nothing to me. The ZR-1 is the only Corvette I'll keep. Enuff said
The C5 Z06 has edge and is a better car as a result of being lighter, better frame and advances in technology.
Regardless, the ZR-1 holds its own, set world records and is still very respectable today. A few mods get you in the 450 hp range and not many cars run around with 450 plus or at least I don't seem them - maybe I live with the old folks
I've had my ZR-1 12 years, its still worth what I paid for it and I wouldn't change it for the world.
The ones where the bottom fell out is where they are driven up and used with a lot of mileage or in sad shape or had multiple owners.
Cars that were purchased and in pristine shape about 10 years ago were in the 30-40K range and they still bring 20-30k if lower mileage and perfect shape. Where else can you drive a car for 10+ years and lost $1,000 a month. In my case, I will have lost nothing or perhaps a few grand for enjoyment of a Corvette for 10+ years.
You can't let a handful of auctions or ebay rough cars tick you off. The deals are not always a deal. I have 3 Corvettes always looking to buy another ZR-1 that is a steal. The ones that are in the teens are not up to par for me but maybe I'm picky.
I have a C5, it means nothing to me. The ZR-1 is the only Corvette I'll keep. Enuff said
10-12-2011, 01:41 PM
#38
You post this stupid crap all the time...I so wish you could meet me on the autocross course so I, along with the other bone stock C4s, could "stomp" your little base C6. I routinely set overall FTD and beat C6Z06s, I don't even bother looking at the times for base C6s as they're not even in the same league with the group of C4s that show up. Seriously, try not to be so elitist and show some respect...
10-12-2011, 02:23 PM
#40
Safety Car
You post this stupid crap all the time...I so wish you could meet me on the autocross course so I, along with the other bone stock C4s, could "stomp" your little base C6. I routinely set overall FTD and beat C6Z06s, I don't even bother looking at the times for base C6s as they're not even in the same league with the group of C4s that show up. Seriously, try not to be so elitist and show some respect...
The smaller cars are much better for that. Yes, the autocross builds technique, is a valid form of motorsport, and costs less, but I never cared for cone chasing in the hot sun. I've never seen a C6 post a very good time at an autocross- I will agree with that fact, but most public streets are wider than the typical autocross course.
I'd love for you to tell me that a c4 is better than a c6 on a 2 or 3 mile road course. The C4 is not a better chassis design- why would I be a troll for saying that?
Last edited by mike100; 10-12-2011 at 02:25 PM.