bb62

Marty,

I think the difference between the "Dunn Heads" attribute and the Anniversary editions is how collectors typically view Corvettes. Most collectors generally view the cars as sports cars where the objective is power and thus speed - especially as delivered by the factory. Dunn heads provided extra horsepower (about 8-10 extra) compared with the non-Dunn heads - and since they were delivered by the factory, that makes them the most powerful C4s, and rare at about 130 built.

Anniversary edition, like paint and tape specials, are typically less valued because there is little if any performance enhancement to those specials. Consider the 78 Pace Car - a paint and tape special if ever there was one. Early on, examples were changing hands for as much as $35K (and this was back in 1978 dollars). Today, at best, the best of them still only garner about $35K (at 2011 dollars), and many much less. Why? Because they have no special performance enhancement compared with any other plane Jane Corvette of the era.

Continue with the 78 analogy. In that time period, 78 pace cars were more valuable than C3 L88s, C3 L89s, C3 L71s, C3 LS6s, and C2 L71s. Now what is the relative value equation - completely the opposite because of the performance promised. Of course you can argue that the Pace Cars are more plentiful than any of the other examples noted above. Yet that would not be so for the 4-Speed L82 versions which are fairly rare are still fairly low priced.

The best thing about the Ruby 92 ZR-1s is the fact that they are ZR-1s - and the comparatively rarer 405HP ZR-1s at that. In my mind, it remains to be seen how future collectors value the various colors, but if history is any guide, it will be the most powerful ones that will lead the way.

USAFPILOT

Show me anywhere that Dunn heads make more power than a Birmal head on a stock ZR-1. If they were that much better some cars would not have had 1 Dunn head and 1 Birmal head.

8388

I disagree here. All of the (93-95) 405 hp cars regardless of head manufacture, were hand port matched as well as having the cam's timing changed from the previous years. This is what actually made the extra power. I've seen plenty of Dunn head cars dyno much less than my Brimal head 93.

bb62

8-10 HP is not "that" much better in terms of horsepower. The difference was not so great that Chevrolet declined to issue a new part number for the Dunn heads. But it is a fact that in stock form the Dunn heads delivered more power. Gary Cline, LT5 engineering manager, confirmed this to me at last year's Michigan NCRS meet. He indicated that the Birmal head machining process (a modification of the 375HP head) did not yield ports that were as free flowing as the cast ports incorporated by Dunn.

The fact that most 95s (and some 94) have 1 Dunn head was due to availability (or lack thereof) of the Birmal heads. Plenty of engines out there have different cylinders with different gas flow characteristics. The slight difference between the 1 Birmal and 1 Dunn head engines would not negatively affect the operation of the engine.

USAFPILOT

I guess we will keep waiting for Mercury Marine to release the dyne #'s for all the engines built then. Word of mouth and the butt dyno don't cut it for me.

On another note...if there was one thing another ZR-1 had my 94 doesn't...it is the shifter found in the 95. I'd like to install one of those crash through shifter and lose the reverse ring thing I have to lift all the time.

mike100

It's more than just the shifter. One of the shift rods has the gating detents built onto it- that has to be replaced to make it truly like the later cars.

you can get a hurst shifter or remove the lockout on the stocker, but it will slide into reverse very easily and not much to stop you from selecting 'R' at 80 mph when you are looking for 6th. I had my ZF rebuilt and traded my 91 stuff to the later stuff since I was missing my lockout ring when i got the car anyhow.

USAFPILOT

if I ever need a rebuild while I own it it will be switched to 95 specs, for sure.

Aurora40

My two cents, comparing a '78, you have to compare the Pace Car to the regular '78. Not to an L88 or other big blocks. I think the question is will the 40th Anniversary bring money over another ZR-1, not over some C2's and C3's.

My guess is most people thought the '78 looked good. That's why it rings their bell, so to speak, and sells for more than other '78s do. I personally think the 40th color is hideous. I'd liken it to the '95 or '98 Pace Car models. I'm sure there are some people who really dig it, I guess the question is, how many people like that are there?

Also, 8-10 horsepower from Dunn heads? I'd have to see some proof there.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Let's see, are your manners really that bad, or do you simply suffer from an affliction that makes you think you know it all, and your opinion is so much more important or correct?
Do you tell people their baby is ugly also?
That is about the same level as calling someone's car "hideous".
What color is yours, Red? I sold my red ZR-1 to get the Ruby, guess that tells you my opinion, although it's equally as important or unimportant as yours.

You know; I have taken my 11 year old son to car shows almost since he was born. Invariably, he would look at a car, and point out it's flaws, or simply state what he thought of it with the innocence of a child.
Time and again, I would counsel him that while he was indeed welcome to his opnion, if it wasn't favorable, he should just keep it to himself, and we would talk about it privately later. I helped him to understand that his opnion is just that; His opinion. He was taught to NEVER criticize anyone's car, lest he be overheard by it's rightfully proud owner, as it was simply poor manners. He has learned to share his favorable opinion with owners, and enjoys talking with them about their special car. Further, he now is able to appreciate every single year and model of a Corvette from 53-12 for what each is, and can tolerate all condition levels, colors, etc, as they are all Corvettes.
I could ask him to help you with that, as he now handles such situations in a far more grown up way than you just displayed in the above post.
Perhaps it's time for you to grow up.

Maybe I am the only person in the world who likes the 40th Anniversary cars, and the ZR-1 version in particular, so there is the first one for your count.
If there are no others, which from the reaction I have recieved over the last 15 years showing, racing and driving the car, I would certainly doubt, that would be OK with me too.
Dave Mcelellan once selected my "hideous" Ruby out of 200 or more Corvettes, some very rare and pristine cars, as Best in Show. I'd show the award to you someday, but you likely would think you know better than him as well. For the record, his opinion I value quite a bit more than yours, although you are indeed most certainly welcome to yours.
I try to encourage owners and the general public to learn and understand what make each and every Corvette, as well as most all other marques special. Whether they like it or not, is more a matter of their own personal choice.
Funny, the ONLY two people who ever displayed such a lack of manners about the Ruby were both members of the Corvrette Forum.
Odd.
I'll now go console my Ruby over it's sorrow that it lacks a Dunn head or two, and that it is not universally loved.

Marty
1FUNZR1

p.s.
My Favorite ZR-1 colors:
1- Admiral
2- Yellow
3- Ruby
4- Black
5- Red

bb62

Marty,

What you are saying here is just as offensive in my mind. With your last statement, you are equating the factual comments I made on the flow characteristics of the Dunn heads (backed up by one of the LT5 chief engineers) with an unfortunately stated expression of opinion on color.

Nothing in my comments denigrates any ZR-1. My comments are not too dissimilar to saying that the 69 435HP cars are slower than the 68 435HP cars in stock form because the 69s had more restricted exhausts (Chevrolet reduced the exhaust pipe diameter from 2 1/2" to 2"). That is a simple fact that has no bearing on the desirability of either car even though there are 69 owners who will object more for emotional reasons.

8388

My favorite ZR1 colors.

1. Fast
2. Faster
3. Fastest

mike100

I thought Aurora40's response was well thought out. The 78 pace car theme was a pretty nice combo, but lets take the 95 pace car example: Purple and white two-tone with some graphics. I personally like it, but I know that a large majority think it is borderline hideous. For a model that costs more than a regular vert, I passed on an opportunity to buy one because I personally did not feel my chances of it becoming desirable were very good.

The 93 Ruby cars are not my all time favorite combo, but it is a fact that people are paying more for those. Sort of like a 96 GS with the red interior...omg, what were they thinking?...but still, they seem to have caught on with collector values.

There's no accounting for taste...it is a crap shoot on which models will be desirable. For me it is the ultimate performance options, less so the appearance packages.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Sorry if you took offense; Neither Ruby nor I meant to offend you.
Factually, I'll stick with my particular Birmal heads.
They were done way back in early 94, at a time when DRM had worked with those same engineers, coming up with the design for the P&P done per their spec, both on the original Black Widows done in Stillwater, as well as those in his shop at that time, and other tuners of the day who adopted them.
I factually doubt the Dunns are superior to them.
I said nothing derogatory about the Dunn heads. Re-read my post. I simply marvelled at such an attribute as being perceived by some as superior to a varying extent, and adding more value or uniqueness, while other unique attributes, such as factory option Z25, were minimalized.
Would the EGR modifications done in 93 also be a value adding attribute?
Any of us can pick and choose what we deem to be important. Like you, I understand the many little changes made, but simply question why significant factory options are dismissed by some.
There is not a ZR-1 made that I would not like, regardless of color. For that matter, there is not a Corvette made, that I don't like. I had an NCRS Red 76 with the VEGA steering wheel. It had Yellow pinstripes added by the original owner that were period correct, and I just would not remove them as I felt it important to retain the only change made in the day to an otherwise completely original survivor. Kind of the same exact feeling as to why I chose not to remove certain mods from my car while pursuing Top Flight. I would not pay the premium for an L82 4 speed 25th Anniversary car that was being asked. So I went with a 79 Red L82 4 speed, also an NCRS car. At the time I did not debate the value of the 25th package with the owner. I liked it very much, but went with the Red 79 instead.
I just checked. Ruby likes his heads too!
Says his color is that of an 87 Jordan Cabernet, which he knows I also like.

Marty
1FUNZR1

DRM500RUBYZR-1

Remember now, just as in 93 all Corvettes had the 40th emblem, and seat stitching, but only Z25 Ruby is the only " 40th Anniversary" car, the same happened in 78 with the 25th emblems. They were on all cars. It gets murky from there as you had a black and silver Anniversary Pace Car, but the "Silver Anniversary" cars were silver over silver. Two difft. shades separated by stripes.
To commerate the 40th, Chevrolet, true to tradition, looked at the 25th methodology and did similar things. I love to see ads for variuos color 93's referred to as Anniversary.
More to the point of paint.
You had LT-4s. GREAT engine, and a formidable brother of the ZR-1.
The Grand Sport option added mostly paint, but power wise an LT-4 is an LT-4. But look at the disparity in the price of each back in the day, and wow, look at it now!
When they first came out I thought those GS's with the unusual black rims
were odd. Was told the black wheels were a "California thing", boy did thta catch on! A few months later, I fell in love with the GS too, which explains why I like Admiral blue so much!
And now the Centennial.......Paint! (and some options) VERY NICE!

Marty
1FUNZR1

solid dobe

Amen, Brother

Not that it matters, but IMHO one of the draws of almost any Corvette is that if a person twists hard enough....specs can be wrung out to make each of them very individualized/special. There is so much info available that we can even narrow down how many of those '78 Corvettes were not only a pace car replica but how many of those had the ultra rare ZN1 package. One of the funnest things about Corvette people is the enthusiasm in collecting every detail & the plethora of info available to those who care.

I think it is a little silly of myself but .....I'm susceptible to it as well. I wanted a black on black 1993(I like the older seats). I passed on some fair deals, to get exactly the one I wanted & with something like 52 black ones made in '93....it was rare to me, but I did not know how rare(production #'s, etc) till after I had the car. I just knew what I wanted.....It took two years to find it. When I think of the ZR-1, a black one is what comes to MY mind, so that is what I went with. I wanted the narrow seats but the 405hp so 1993 was my best option.

It would seem that even though we all know the REAL value in a ZR-1 is in the driving of it, it could be argued that because both the 40th Anniversary & Dunn head(s) cars have a well defined/recognized difference, they can be expected (all other stuff being equal) to bring a premium over cars such as mine(less known/understood nuances in options). There will always be the odd person out{like me} to whom a ****ling oddity will matter, whether it be color or that awesome trailer hitch I mentioned on the '78 pace car.

In the end, a good salesman will hit on ANY difference. A well informed buyer will know exactly what weight to give these variations in light of their own personal desires.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

ZN1 was nice in 78, but a slouch when compared to NA6!

I like your black also!

Marty
1FUNZR1

Aurora40

I'd ask if you were joking, except you typed out a damn book about how you raised your son. I'd say I'm sorry my opinion offended you, but I'm not. If you don't want to read opinions on the desirability of the 40th Anniversary model, don't read threads where people discuss the desirability of the 40th Anniversary model.

DRM500RUBYZR-1

I am surprised you thought it a joke.
The entire point about manners obviously missed the mark.
Stick to your strength on technical matters, that is of some value.
Marty
1FUNZR1

ZR-71

He very plainly mentioned his "personal thought" about not liking the 40th anniversary color. He wasn't talking about YOUR car, just the 40th color in general. Everyone has different tastes and unless someone specifically criticizes you for something personally, you shouldn't feel offended.
BTW, I think you have a Helluva ZR-1

RubyZR1

Can you check the last 3 digits of the VIN? Mine is ..."150"