Oil cooler line leaking.... where to get a new one?
12-16-2016, 08:09 AM
#21
No, I really don't care about the NCRS, but keeping things factory is a "me" thing.
I don't race or show but I do get OCD (yes, I'm in touch with it and am ok with it.) over little factory stuff. I read the service manuals, follow the step-by-step service directions and torque to factory specs. I look for factory parts when possible or dead on replacements. I collect original manuals, window stickers, service bulletins, "pizza box", key fobs...etc.
It is just my way of enjoying the hobby.
I don't race or show but I do get OCD (yes, I'm in touch with it and am ok with it.) over little factory stuff. I read the service manuals, follow the step-by-step service directions and torque to factory specs. I look for factory parts when possible or dead on replacements. I collect original manuals, window stickers, service bulletins, "pizza box", key fobs...etc.
It is just my way of enjoying the hobby.
12-16-2016, 07:21 PM
#22
Zen Vet Master Level VII
Thread Starter
I got the factory style part this afternoon and I took off work early (I do have priorities) to get a jump on installation. I installed it in about 30 minutes and it was pretty straight forward. I did have to make a run to Auto Zone for a 1 1/4 in open end.
Yes, it was a bit of a mess but thanks to the warning from fellow ZR1-ers, I preposition-ed a bunch of rags. I have the weekend to do a "knit-pick" clean it up with a little elbow grease
I ran it for about 20 minutes as I took it on a test run getting the RPMs up to about 5k a couple of times. I did the post drive inspection at home and found it bone dry. I double check later for any seepage.
Plus my Bat-Sh*T crazy in-laws arrive in about an hour for the weekend. I see LOTS of problems that need immediate attention that are just developing.
Thanks for the advice!
Yes, it was a bit of a mess but thanks to the warning from fellow ZR1-ers, I preposition-ed a bunch of rags. I have the weekend to do a "knit-pick" clean it up with a little elbow grease
I ran it for about 20 minutes as I took it on a test run getting the RPMs up to about 5k a couple of times. I did the post drive inspection at home and found it bone dry. I double check later for any seepage.
Plus my Bat-Sh*T crazy in-laws arrive in about an hour for the weekend. I see LOTS of problems that need immediate attention that are just developing.
Thanks for the advice!
12-17-2016, 07:45 AM
#23
Pro
I'm with you Bill. I am not a mechanic at all, but I just love seeing my car the way it was. Just my preference. Just a tick below that, it's cool seeing guys modding. Btw, Steve, you still owe me a one on one with your tuning project. It was too cold to care in Buffalo for me. LOL
Last edited by jss06c6; 12-17-2016 at 07:45 AM.
12-18-2016, 05:16 PM
#24
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
So...let me tell you about oil lines.
Unless you are going NCRS, the best choice is to replace the crimped rubber hoses with braided stainless steel covered hose in AN-12.
The original LT5 oil hose design (PN 14104996) was part of Lotus' work on the engine and the hose size was specific to the application. GM found out fairly early in the ZR-1's six-years of production that these lines were prone to leakage, usually where the fittings are crimped to the hose--a common problem with such low-cost construction.
In fact, GM's warranty cost for this durability problem was high enough that GM Service Parts Operations, released a revised LT5 oil hose assembly (PN 12472184) in '93 or so for the early engines with the brass cooler. Typical for SPO, they did this as cheap as possible using an off-shelf hose type, which was smaller in diameter but less prone to leakage. A replacement hose set for the 94 and 95 engines (PN 10219644) with the aluminum cooler was also released.
Back in the late-'90s, during the early stages of the "Purple Project" series of articles I wrote for Vette Magazine on LT5 modifications, I found the oil hoses on my ZR-1 were leaking. I ordered replacement GM hoses. When I compared the diameter of the new hoses to my originals, I laughed out loud and said, "To hell with these POSes."
The diameter reduction with the replacement hose set was so significant that, the oil lines might became a restriction in the oiling system. That's not a big problem with the engine is running at low loads, the oil temperature is low and the oil thermostat is not passing much oil to the cooler but, run the engine hard such that the oil temp gets up towards 230-250 degrees and the thermostat is wide-open, then you've got restriction.
There were no more OE hose sets, only those shitty replacement sets The solution? Junk those GM oil hoses and replace them with Aeroquip. Back then, Eaton's Aeroquip division was one of the few major suppliers of braided stainless steel covered hoses and AN fittings which designed, developed and tested all its products in it's own, ISO 9001- and QS 9000-certified certified, U.S. plants.
As it turns out, putting Aeroquip oil hoses on an LT5 is, on one hand, relatively easy because the oil fittings on the engine are the same SAE 37° compression type used by Aeroquip hoses but is also a bit difficult because, on the cooler end, I needed to modify the connection by heliarc welding male AN fittings to the existing hard oil lines.
I selected AN-12 as the hose size I wanted because it has just a bit larger I.D. than the original, Lotus-designed hoses. I cut the rubber hoses off my leaking hose assembly. Then, I cut the pipe ends off two Aeroquip AN-12-to-pipe thread adapters.
Back then, I had modified fittings be heliarc welded to the aluminum oil pipes. Today, you just buy a bolt-on braided hose conversion from Jerry's Gaskets and, you can get that in two colors, silver or black.
Braided hoses and AN fittings have outstanding durability. I made my set of hoses in 1998. When I sold my car in April of 2016, the same set of hoses was still on the car. They hadn't leaked a drop in 18 years and 90,000 miles.
Bottom line: because of the diameter reduction I wouldn't consider OE replacement hoses unless the car is an NCRS restoration that never gets driven hard in warm weather. The best choice are the hose sets Jerry Downey makes.
Unless you are going NCRS, the best choice is to replace the crimped rubber hoses with braided stainless steel covered hose in AN-12.
The original LT5 oil hose design (PN 14104996) was part of Lotus' work on the engine and the hose size was specific to the application. GM found out fairly early in the ZR-1's six-years of production that these lines were prone to leakage, usually where the fittings are crimped to the hose--a common problem with such low-cost construction.
In fact, GM's warranty cost for this durability problem was high enough that GM Service Parts Operations, released a revised LT5 oil hose assembly (PN 12472184) in '93 or so for the early engines with the brass cooler. Typical for SPO, they did this as cheap as possible using an off-shelf hose type, which was smaller in diameter but less prone to leakage. A replacement hose set for the 94 and 95 engines (PN 10219644) with the aluminum cooler was also released.
Back in the late-'90s, during the early stages of the "Purple Project" series of articles I wrote for Vette Magazine on LT5 modifications, I found the oil hoses on my ZR-1 were leaking. I ordered replacement GM hoses. When I compared the diameter of the new hoses to my originals, I laughed out loud and said, "To hell with these POSes."
The diameter reduction with the replacement hose set was so significant that, the oil lines might became a restriction in the oiling system. That's not a big problem with the engine is running at low loads, the oil temperature is low and the oil thermostat is not passing much oil to the cooler but, run the engine hard such that the oil temp gets up towards 230-250 degrees and the thermostat is wide-open, then you've got restriction.
There were no more OE hose sets, only those shitty replacement sets The solution? Junk those GM oil hoses and replace them with Aeroquip. Back then, Eaton's Aeroquip division was one of the few major suppliers of braided stainless steel covered hoses and AN fittings which designed, developed and tested all its products in it's own, ISO 9001- and QS 9000-certified certified, U.S. plants.
As it turns out, putting Aeroquip oil hoses on an LT5 is, on one hand, relatively easy because the oil fittings on the engine are the same SAE 37° compression type used by Aeroquip hoses but is also a bit difficult because, on the cooler end, I needed to modify the connection by heliarc welding male AN fittings to the existing hard oil lines.
I selected AN-12 as the hose size I wanted because it has just a bit larger I.D. than the original, Lotus-designed hoses. I cut the rubber hoses off my leaking hose assembly. Then, I cut the pipe ends off two Aeroquip AN-12-to-pipe thread adapters.
Back then, I had modified fittings be heliarc welded to the aluminum oil pipes. Today, you just buy a bolt-on braided hose conversion from Jerry's Gaskets and, you can get that in two colors, silver or black.
Braided hoses and AN fittings have outstanding durability. I made my set of hoses in 1998. When I sold my car in April of 2016, the same set of hoses was still on the car. They hadn't leaked a drop in 18 years and 90,000 miles.
Bottom line: because of the diameter reduction I wouldn't consider OE replacement hoses unless the car is an NCRS restoration that never gets driven hard in warm weather. The best choice are the hose sets Jerry Downey makes.
Last edited by Hib Halverson; 12-18-2016 at 05:18 PM.
The following users liked this post:
A26B (12-21-2016)
12-18-2016, 08:31 PM
#25
Tech Contributor
There were no more OE hose sets, only those shitty replacement sets The solution? Junk those GM oil hoses and replace them with Aeroquip. Back then, Eaton's Aeroquip division was one of the few major suppliers of braided stainless steel covered hoses and AN fittings which designed, developed and tested all its products in it's own, ISO 9001- and QS 9000-certified certified, U.S. plants.
I selected AN-12 as the hose size I wanted because it has just a bit larger I.D. than the original, Lotus-designed hoses. I cut the rubber hoses off my leaking hose assembly. Then, I cut the pipe ends off two Aeroquip AN-12-to-pipe thread adapters.
Braided hoses and AN fittings have outstanding durability. I made my set of hoses in 1998. When I sold my car in April of 2016, the same set of hoses was still on the car. They hadn't leaked a drop in 18 years and 90,000 miles.
Bottom line: because of the diameter reduction I wouldn't consider OE replacement hoses unless the car is an NCRS restoration that never gets driven hard in warm weather. The best choice are the hose sets Jerry Downey makes.
I selected AN-12 as the hose size I wanted because it has just a bit larger I.D. than the original, Lotus-designed hoses. I cut the rubber hoses off my leaking hose assembly. Then, I cut the pipe ends off two Aeroquip AN-12-to-pipe thread adapters.
Braided hoses and AN fittings have outstanding durability. I made my set of hoses in 1998. When I sold my car in April of 2016, the same set of hoses was still on the car. They hadn't leaked a drop in 18 years and 90,000 miles.
Bottom line: because of the diameter reduction I wouldn't consider OE replacement hoses unless the car is an NCRS restoration that never gets driven hard in warm weather. The best choice are the hose sets Jerry Downey makes.
I completely concur with you except I use all 10AN Aeroquip Reusable Fittings and 10AN Hose....The 10AN SS Braided hose I use has ID of 9/16 inch and the 12 AN SS Braided Hose has ID 5/8 inch. As it turns out.....the 12AN hose with 5/8 inch ID is identical to stock Oil Cooler Hose having ID of 5/8 inch. Also I noted the ID Fittings on the stock Oil Cooler Hoses on the Oil Cooler end where the tubing is located is less ID than the SS Braided 10AN Oil Lines.
The Stock Oil Cooler hoses have 6 inches of steel tubing on Oil Cooler end that are identical in ID (9/16 inch) to SS Braided 10AN. Further, the Stock Oil Cooler hoses are 17 inches long as compared to 13 inches long for SS Braided Oil Cooler Hoses. The Oil Filter Adapter end of the Stock Oil Cooler hoses is only about 1/2 inch ID at the fittings. Which if you add all that up I would say the total head loss in the stock Oil Cooler hoses is about identical to the SS Braided 10AN with Aeroquip 10AN Fittings.
SS Braided Oil Cooler Hoses and Fittings
Doing some calculations and knowing the resistance to Oil Flow through the Oil Filter, Oil Cooler, and Engine, I am thinking there is no advantage on the SS Braided Oil Cooler hoses being just a bit less restrictive than stock Oil Cooler hoses. It all depends on the function of the Oil Cooler Bypass Valve
I have made up 5 sets of SS Braided 10AN Oil Cooler Hoses as shown and the Oil Pressure as well as Oil Temperature seems identical to what it was with Stock Oil Cooler Hoses on all 5 LT5 engines.
See Item 3B Engine Lubrication System Functional Discussion
Last edited by Dynomite; 12-22-2016 at 09:50 PM.
12-19-2016, 05:32 PM
#26
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
-10 or -12...whatever.
All I know is the set of hoses I built myself, long before making AN hose sets for LT5s was common, worked great for the 18 years I had them on my car. Presumably, they are working great for Barney's new owner, too.
Back in the early days of the 2G ZR-1 hobby, it would have been great to have something like what Jerry sells or what you used on your car.
Sometimes it was sort of the Wild West back then with some of the stuff that Van Dorn and I did in modifying ZR-1s and LT5s.
The work we did for Fluidyne in the 97-99 period comes to mind as a bit on the Wild West side as far as how we developed and tested their C4 radiator. Too bad that product was not marketed very well (sigh).
But, I digress....
All I know is the set of hoses I built myself, long before making AN hose sets for LT5s was common, worked great for the 18 years I had them on my car. Presumably, they are working great for Barney's new owner, too.
Back in the early days of the 2G ZR-1 hobby, it would have been great to have something like what Jerry sells or what you used on your car.
Sometimes it was sort of the Wild West back then with some of the stuff that Van Dorn and I did in modifying ZR-1s and LT5s.
The work we did for Fluidyne in the 97-99 period comes to mind as a bit on the Wild West side as far as how we developed and tested their C4 radiator. Too bad that product was not marketed very well (sigh).
But, I digress....
Last edited by Hib Halverson; 12-19-2016 at 05:34 PM.
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A26B (12-21-2016)