Here we go again with the no start, need help please
10-18-2018, 09:32 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Here we go again with the no start, need help please
I’m going to be perfectly honest I think I got in over my head on this job, decided to fix and change a few things on my 1990 c4 zr1, I put all red led in my instrument cluster, which look awesome, it had a after market CD player when I bought it but it is getting age so I bought a double din, new carpet, bought hurst short throw shifter( not installed it yet) well bought Corvette mods hid headlight and fog light package, wish I did my research!!!! Cheap and horrible package, plus there customer service is awful, I’ve already ordered led to replace there 1000 percent mark up on china’s Finest, anyways car had a viper alarm, I unplugged it and took wiring harness out, and put all factory wires back that I could see, pulled schematics on the viper alarm the previous owner put in, and traced colors to make sure I was not missing anything, only 3 wires that I could see were cut and rest had the clips that splice into the wire. Car has been in the garage for a couple months and I have not cranked it since I started doing all the work, just changed heater core last week and needed to check the system, so I tried to start it 2 days ago and nothing but one click by relay and starter solenoid I guess that what it was, nothing else, well i tried all day and night to figure out the problem, thought it was the vats and when I looked I saw the purple wire had already been spliced into, so I’m assuming they did the bypass on the vats, it has left me stranded is why I took viper alarm off, but no problems running or electronics acting up before I started except the heater core which leaked all on my passenger floor board, just thought I could tackle a few other things and now I’m in limbo, pretty much sick because I don’t even no where to start, alarm I disconnected? Lights? Unplugged corvette mods cheap harness and still nothing, do I need to wire another relay? And how do I do it for a aftermarket alarm? Any help would be great, thanks
10-18-2018, 10:09 PM
#2
Safety Car
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Fredonia WI
Posts: 3,567
Received 491 Likes
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2023 C4 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2018 C4 of Year Finalist
I feel your pain 
I try not to bad-mouth vendors, but I will never deal with Corvette Mods ... (but I doubt their POS is causing the no start)
The PO of my 1990 Z also butchered the wiring - installed an "alarm" system, etc. It took me a week to remove it.
At least if you hear the starter solenoid go off, it likely isn't that (I'm replacing my starter right now since the solenoid died)
Do you have the FSM in order to follow the "no start troubleshooting" procedure?
I try not to bad-mouth vendors, but I will never deal with Corvette Mods ... (but I doubt their POS is causing the no start)
The PO of my 1990 Z also butchered the wiring - installed an "alarm" system, etc. It took me a week to remove it.
At least if you hear the starter solenoid go off, it likely isn't that (I'm replacing my starter right now since the solenoid died)
Do you have the FSM in order to follow the "no start troubleshooting" procedure?
10-18-2018, 10:29 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Looks like like I’m going to have to order it. I’ve had the car for 8 years, got a good deal but right away I had to replace injectors, and fuel tank, and I had the the repair shop put a 3inch B&B on it, the owner used to race the z’s so I knew he could be trusted. I’ve always liked to mess around in the garage and work on stuff but this has got me worried, especially with how many wires I’m dealing with, but I’m going to go ahead and order it, just hope someone has delt with similar issues to steer me in the right direction, thanks for the reply
10-18-2018, 11:24 PM
#6
Safety Car
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Fredonia WI
Posts: 3,567
Received 491 Likes
on
392 Posts
2023 C4 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2018 C4 of Year Finalist
Start here
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...%20Probems.pdf
and
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Inform...art-issue.aspx
When I removed the alarm, I didn't replace/add any relays.
I assume you are sure the battery is charged up and the cables are clean and tight ...
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...%20Probems.pdf
and
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Inform...art-issue.aspx
When I removed the alarm, I didn't replace/add any relays.
I assume you are sure the battery is charged up and the cables are clean and tight ...
10-18-2018, 11:37 PM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Kept a trickle charger on it, battery was charged, I did add two extra grounds to the frame with the wiring harness for the lights, I did put a new heater core in, maybe I need to go back up in that hell hole and make sure all the connectors are plugged in and not connected to the wrong one, because there’s 3 that will plug into one another but I went off colors matching up and counting the prongs, guess this is where the FSM comes in handy, lol, it’s on order now but I’m losing hair and doing to many 12 ounce curls trying to figure it out
10-19-2018, 08:44 PM
#8
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I don't know what to do here. I know how to diagnose this....But good 'ol DDSLT5 says you gotta have an FSM. I don't have one for a ZR-1. What to do? Offer good help? Or not since I'm not flipping the pages of my FSM while puffing on my pipe?
When you get in and turn the key to "ON" or "run"....is the security light blinking? Or not? <This is step 1.
The "clicking" noise indicates to me that the car tried to start (start motor tried to run), which if that is the case, it's not VATS causing the issue, and instead would be a lack of power to the starter or a bad starter. But step 1 first: key on....Security light blinking or not?
The "clicking" noise indicates to me that the car tried to start (start motor tried to run), which if that is the case, it's not VATS causing the issue, and instead would be a lack of power to the starter or a bad starter. But step 1 first: key on....Security light blinking or not?
10-19-2018, 10:52 PM
#9
To do anything to these cars as far as repair goes you MUST have the correct FSM with supplements. If not, you are just shooting blanks at a target with no bullseye!
The FSM & supplements may not always get you to a solution immediately, but you will eliminate systems that will lead you to the correct solution.
The ZR-1/LT5 are covered in the FSM/Supplements and the specific differences are noted.
As far as aftermarket modifications go, you need to completely back them out and get it back to the correct configuration to determine a starting point for troubleshooting.
It all boils down to follow the dots. Step #1. Step #2. and on and on!
The FSM & supplements may not always get you to a solution immediately, but you will eliminate systems that will lead you to the correct solution.
The ZR-1/LT5 are covered in the FSM/Supplements and the specific differences are noted.
As far as aftermarket modifications go, you need to completely back them out and get it back to the correct configuration to determine a starting point for troubleshooting.
It all boils down to follow the dots. Step #1. Step #2. and on and on!
Last edited by fxkenny; 10-19-2018 at 10:53 PM. Reason: spelling
10-19-2018, 11:25 PM
#10
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
10-20-2018, 12:56 AM
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I don't know what to do here. I know how to diagnose this....But good 'ol DDSLT5 says you gotta have an FSM. I don't have one for a ZR-1. What to do? Offer good help? Or not since I'm not flipping the pages of my FSM while puffing on my pipe?
When you get in and turn the key to "ON" or "run"....is the security light blinking? Or not? <This is step 1.
The "clicking" noise indicates to me that the car tried to start (start motor tried to run), which if that is the case, it's not VATS causing the issue, and instead would be a lack of power to the starter or a bad starter. But step 1 first: key on....Security light blinking or not?
When you get in and turn the key to "ON" or "run"....is the security light blinking? Or not? <This is step 1.
The "clicking" noise indicates to me that the car tried to start (start motor tried to run), which if that is the case, it's not VATS causing the issue, and instead would be a lack of power to the starter or a bad starter. But step 1 first: key on....Security light blinking or not?
10-20-2018, 01:24 AM
#12
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I have MItchell also....but, if you know how cars work (and some of us do) then you don't need it in order to proceed to step 2.
If it were my car, I'd be checking voltage at the starter during attempted cranking, next.
Since you have a Mitchell subscription, look up the starting circuit and you should be able to diagnose it yourself; BCM/CCM grounds the Start enable relay when VATS is satisfied. You have no blinking security light, so it's not a VATS issue and the start enable relay should be grounded. You can test that.
Then you can test for power through the starting circuit, to the starter. And so on. Should be pretty quick and easy to determine if it's a wiring issue, battery voltage issue or a starter issue.
.
If it were my car, I'd be checking voltage at the starter during attempted cranking, next.
Since you have a Mitchell subscription, look up the starting circuit and you should be able to diagnose it yourself; BCM/CCM grounds the Start enable relay when VATS is satisfied. You have no blinking security light, so it's not a VATS issue and the start enable relay should be grounded. You can test that.
Then you can test for power through the starting circuit, to the starter. And so on. Should be pretty quick and easy to determine if it's a wiring issue, battery voltage issue or a starter issue.
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 10-20-2018 at 01:25 AM.
10-20-2018, 08:27 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Tom's advice is sound.
I would step back and perform what should be the first step.
While I understand that you have had the battery on the tender, it would not hurt to remove it and take it for a true load test at a local parts store.
Once done, a careful cleaning and inspection of the cable connections and their tightness.
I would then, as you turn the key from on to start, observe the voltmeter.
If the starter circuit is energizing you should see a blip of the needle.
If you see it, move to starter diagnosis.
If you do not see it, focus on the clutch switch and circuit.
Did you mention that it was jumpered?
If so, check the connections.
Good luck!
Keep us posted.
You will get it!
Marty
I would step back and perform what should be the first step.
While I understand that you have had the battery on the tender, it would not hurt to remove it and take it for a true load test at a local parts store.
Once done, a careful cleaning and inspection of the cable connections and their tightness.
I would then, as you turn the key from on to start, observe the voltmeter.
If the starter circuit is energizing you should see a blip of the needle.
If you see it, move to starter diagnosis.
If you do not see it, focus on the clutch switch and circuit.
Did you mention that it was jumpered?
If so, check the connections.
Good luck!
Keep us posted.
You will get it!
Marty
10-20-2018, 08:40 AM
#15
have you tried checking if the starter is any good?,,
try putting the car in gear and rocking it back and forth to make sure the starter isn't engaged ,with the flywheel,,low voltage will do that
also is your battery any good?,,
i don't care if its on a trickle charger,take it off for a day,then ck the volts
when you turn the key to start is there voltage to the small started wire,,not just to the large batt cable
try putting the car in gear and rocking it back and forth to make sure the starter isn't engaged ,with the flywheel,,low voltage will do that
also is your battery any good?,,
i don't care if its on a trickle charger,take it off for a day,then ck the volts
when you turn the key to start is there voltage to the small started wire,,not just to the large batt cable
10-20-2018, 11:56 AM
#16
Instructor
First thing to do is to determine if your problem is in the battery/starter circuit or in the key switch circuit.
First step for me would be to turn the lights on and try the starter. If the lights dim, the battery and terminals need to be checked.
If the battery is good, the next thing is to check the starter and solenoid. Easiest way to do this is to run a 12V+ jumper from the starter solenoid start terminal to the battery + post. Unfortunately on the LT5 the solenoid is under the plenum so it is not easy to get to like on an engine with a side mounted starter.
If you have not already installed a starter bypass relay as described in some of the above referenced posts, you should consider doing so. When you cut the wire from the clutch to the solenoid, run a temporary jumper from the solenoid wire and touch the 12V + terminal on the battery. If the battery, solenoid, starter and associated connections are good, the starter will engage and spin the engine. If it does not, check the solenoid and starter.
If those tests pass, your problem is in the key switch circuit.
First step for me would be to turn the lights on and try the starter. If the lights dim, the battery and terminals need to be checked.
If the battery is good, the next thing is to check the starter and solenoid. Easiest way to do this is to run a 12V+ jumper from the starter solenoid start terminal to the battery + post. Unfortunately on the LT5 the solenoid is under the plenum so it is not easy to get to like on an engine with a side mounted starter.
If you have not already installed a starter bypass relay as described in some of the above referenced posts, you should consider doing so. When you cut the wire from the clutch to the solenoid, run a temporary jumper from the solenoid wire and touch the 12V + terminal on the battery. If the battery, solenoid, starter and associated connections are good, the starter will engage and spin the engine. If it does not, check the solenoid and starter.
If those tests pass, your problem is in the key switch circuit.
10-21-2018, 01:14 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Just a note of caution.
If you have, or are planning to bypass the clutch switch, always remember to be in neutral when you start while ALWAYS depressing the clutch.
Easy to forget when trouble-shooting.
Make certain that everyone else who may start your car knows this as well.
I am not fond of this modification due to it's hazardous potential.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Marty
If you have, or are planning to bypass the clutch switch, always remember to be in neutral when you start while ALWAYS depressing the clutch.
Easy to forget when trouble-shooting.
Make certain that everyone else who may start your car knows this as well.
I am not fond of this modification due to it's hazardous potential.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Marty
10-26-2018, 02:12 PM
#18
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I have MItchell also....but, if you know how cars work (and some of us do) then you don't need it in order to proceed to step 2.
If it were my car, I'd be checking voltage at the starter during attempted cranking, next.
Since you have a Mitchell subscription, look up the starting circuit and you should be able to diagnose it yourself; BCM/CCM grounds the Start enable relay when VATS is satisfied. You have no blinking security light, so it's not a VATS issue and the start enable relay should be grounded. You can test that.
Then you can test for power through the starting circuit, to the starter. And so on. Should be pretty quick and easy to determine if it's a wiring issue, battery voltage issue or a starter issue.
.
If it were my car, I'd be checking voltage at the starter during attempted cranking, next.
Since you have a Mitchell subscription, look up the starting circuit and you should be able to diagnose it yourself; BCM/CCM grounds the Start enable relay when VATS is satisfied. You have no blinking security light, so it's not a VATS issue and the start enable relay should be grounded. You can test that.
Then you can test for power through the starting circuit, to the starter. And so on. Should be pretty quick and easy to determine if it's a wiring issue, battery voltage issue or a starter issue.
.
Just got back on the car today, FSM just got delivered, first and for most I want to thanks each and everyone of you for your advice and input, thought there was no way it was starter because I had it replaced 2 years ago, AC Delco, but sure enough pretty sure it is, listen to these guys if your knew to the forum or a new z owner, they know there s&@$!!!! Anyways I will keep everybody posted over the weekend, if I could just here it turn over would be wonderful music to my ears, thanks again, SB
Inside Plenum
10-26-2018, 02:15 PM
#19
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Water inside the plenum where I washed the motor a while back, all power was cut and never thought about it till I read a marc haibeck article