NX for fun
07-09-2001, 06:33 PM
#21
NCM Lifetime # 982
07-09-2001, 07:24 PM
#22
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Once again, I apologize to all if it appears as if I am trashing NX. That is not my intent. I am confident in John Stewart's NX systems and his technical abilities.
Realize, I just blew a big hole in my engine. Which I can live with. When you play, you pay. I always end up paying. I am a bit disturbed, since, now I probably will end up dumping another 12k into my engine, but I find myself entirely at fault, not the manufacturers of the NX system.
In life you learn by living. Chalk-up another lesson in my life. This one is a big one, but it won't be my last or my worse. I just wish my stupidity wouldn't had wasted the valuable and precious work that went into making my car what I thought was special.
The hood is trashed, and the Paint job that JVD and Gary Svecko did for me is wasted. The Old Wette Vette looks like it will get a new paint job this winter. I just hope I can find someone to recreate the color, hue, and depth of the paint that graces my car.
The engine will return. I just hope I can return the look.
Thanks
Realize, I just blew a big hole in my engine. Which I can live with. When you play, you pay. I always end up paying. I am a bit disturbed, since, now I probably will end up dumping another 12k into my engine, but I find myself entirely at fault, not the manufacturers of the NX system.
In life you learn by living. Chalk-up another lesson in my life. This one is a big one, but it won't be my last or my worse. I just wish my stupidity wouldn't had wasted the valuable and precious work that went into making my car what I thought was special.
The hood is trashed, and the Paint job that JVD and Gary Svecko did for me is wasted. The Old Wette Vette looks like it will get a new paint job this winter. I just hope I can find someone to recreate the color, hue, and depth of the paint that graces my car.
The engine will return. I just hope I can return the look.
Thanks
07-09-2001, 07:34 PM
#23
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[This message has been edited by USAZR1 (edited 07-11-2001).]
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07-09-2001, 07:46 PM
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[This message has been edited by USAZR1 (edited 07-11-2001).]
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07-09-2001, 07:55 PM
#26
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I was doing about 170mph when it went, between coasting and shutting it off at red lights it drove 3 miles to work. It revved high, but throwing the tranny into 4th brought the rpms down and let me park it in the parking garage at work.
Am getting it picked up and delivered to my place tomorrow, will pop off the plenum and injector housings, drop oil pan, pull plugs, etc and check for damage. If Things check out ok, will find welder to repair plenum, and put it back together and see how she runs.
Am getting it picked up and delivered to my place tomorrow, will pop off the plenum and injector housings, drop oil pan, pull plugs, etc and check for damage. If Things check out ok, will find welder to repair plenum, and put it back together and see how she runs.
07-10-2001, 01:49 PM
#28
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Mike- I wouldn't just write it off as your fault, I mean the nitrous system is what caused the explosion. I guarantee you if you had a dry system, it wouldn't have happened. So to say that there's nothing wrong with the nitrous system after it did that is wrong. It happened because it was an upstream wet system on an engine that should only have dry or downstream wet. Of course the price is yours to pay, but it makes you consider the negligence of the designer.
Wet systems are easy and cheap to install, but when they lead to broken emblems and fiberglass or plenums blowing off, was it worth it? Sure, some a quite successful with it, but they're taking a chance all the time, and if they step the wrong way out of the range they're gonna wish they didn't have it.
Go dry or full fogger or both like Julio.
Chris
Wet systems are easy and cheap to install, but when they lead to broken emblems and fiberglass or plenums blowing off, was it worth it? Sure, some a quite successful with it, but they're taking a chance all the time, and if they step the wrong way out of the range they're gonna wish they didn't have it.
Go dry or full fogger or both like Julio.
Chris
07-10-2001, 03:37 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by zrchris
I see you've found out the same as others why the wet system NX sells is not good. NX's approach has hurt plenty of parts. The LT5 plenum is especially too large to sustain the velocity needed to keep fuel mixed well in the stream, and so fuel drops out. Then the mixture's not right and a reversion occurs, say goodbye to the top end. NOS says the wet approach is tolerable at high RPMs with around 100hp shot, but is a bad idea on a large plenum.
The only true professional way to do it is dry, and add the fuel at the fuel injectors. GM contracted NOS to produce this sytem originally, and it is highly reliable over the RPM span. This isn't trivial to control though, and I advise just buying the NOS kit for this. If you want to add more than 130 hp or control it with a progressive controller, put a fogger nozzle in each secondary port. This will make it a whole independent system that is downstream of the plenum and safely allows higher power levels with guaranteed distribution. Anybody's parts will do fine for this approach.
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris
(edited 07-09-2001).][/color]
The only true professional way to do it is dry, and add the fuel at the fuel injectors. GM contracted NOS to produce this sytem originally, and it is highly reliable over the RPM span. This isn't trivial to control though, and I advise just buying the NOS kit for this. If you want to add more than 130 hp or control it with a progressive controller, put a fogger nozzle in each secondary port. This will make it a whole independent system that is downstream of the plenum and safely allows higher power levels with guaranteed distribution. Anybody's parts will do fine for this approach.
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris
(edited 07-09-2001).][/color]
That is exactly what I did, althoug the mixture has to be right, and the user smart.
90% of Nitrous problems are insufficient fuel, and 10% user error!!
07-10-2001, 09:05 PM
#30
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Anyone have a spare plenum in the Detroit metro area, or real close? I want to check to see if the car will run with a stock plenum. The welder looked at the plenum today and said the earliest he can get at it is September.
Or does someone out there in Vetteland want to take a shot of repairing this plenum? Might as well do any performance mods to it as well since its already open to the world.
There is a small chumk of the plenum missing, about a 1 inch square portion. Also will be looking for a source to make it krinkle coated as well.
I am looking to purchase a "spare" plenum is possible.
Or does someone out there in Vetteland want to take a shot of repairing this plenum? Might as well do any performance mods to it as well since its already open to the world.
There is a small chumk of the plenum missing, about a 1 inch square portion. Also will be looking for a source to make it krinkle coated as well.
I am looking to purchase a "spare" plenum is possible.
07-11-2001, 11:50 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
Damn,
You done almost as much damage to your car as I did mine:-) & yes, if your motor is damaged, you will be coughing up some serious dough.
This is from experience, my motor blew last year I put holes in two pistons & damaged the remaining 6 with the broken pieces of metal that were floating around.
I don't know what the cause was, or why, it went bad & that's that.
I too am unsure about the reliability of the wet systems, when they work, it's a lot of fun, but if you get any back fire, your in trouble.
I replaced my ZR-1's hood last year because of three backfires, the air filter housing blew completely apart, the 3 bolts holding it down went through the hood, that happened 3 times over last summer, before the engine blew!
The best running cars on Nitrous I have ever seen are the two lads from down South, I thing one of them was from Georgia & The other guy from SC, One of the guys was called Brian. Anybody know him?, they had the white 94 ZR-1's @ BG in May, One of those cars has run a 10.4 on nitrous, they both use dry systems.
It seems that there cars are making a lot more reliable horsepower than the wet system, they use the fuel injectors to pump the extra fuel into the engine, I was unsure at first, till I see the cars race that was.
I am seriously looking into replacing my wet system with the dry system, especially after seeing that plenum.
If you was running over 4000 RPM in the middle of the day & your motor backfired, I would be most interested to know what caused that & if it can happen to any one of us.
If the guys From BG are on this Forum, e-mail me, I need to have a chat :-)
Kurt.
90 ZR-1 368 CU"
150 HP N20
4:56 gears
Blueprinted ZF
http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/home
You done almost as much damage to your car as I did mine:-) & yes, if your motor is damaged, you will be coughing up some serious dough.
This is from experience, my motor blew last year I put holes in two pistons & damaged the remaining 6 with the broken pieces of metal that were floating around.
I don't know what the cause was, or why, it went bad & that's that.
I too am unsure about the reliability of the wet systems, when they work, it's a lot of fun, but if you get any back fire, your in trouble.
I replaced my ZR-1's hood last year because of three backfires, the air filter housing blew completely apart, the 3 bolts holding it down went through the hood, that happened 3 times over last summer, before the engine blew!
The best running cars on Nitrous I have ever seen are the two lads from down South, I thing one of them was from Georgia & The other guy from SC, One of the guys was called Brian. Anybody know him?, they had the white 94 ZR-1's @ BG in May, One of those cars has run a 10.4 on nitrous, they both use dry systems.
It seems that there cars are making a lot more reliable horsepower than the wet system, they use the fuel injectors to pump the extra fuel into the engine, I was unsure at first, till I see the cars race that was.
I am seriously looking into replacing my wet system with the dry system, especially after seeing that plenum.
If you was running over 4000 RPM in the middle of the day & your motor backfired, I would be most interested to know what caused that & if it can happen to any one of us.
If the guys From BG are on this Forum, e-mail me, I need to have a chat :-)
Kurt.
90 ZR-1 368 CU"
150 HP N20
4:56 gears
Blueprinted ZF
http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/home
07-11-2001, 12:35 PM
#32
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I have closely studied Brian Free and Greg Noles's cars. DO NOT install a setup like theirs. It's another case of, "Hey if it works for them why wouldn't it work for me?". They're actually melted motors waiting to happen.
Wet systems are a bad idea for overall reliability, as we have seen. I haven't yet heard a problem with the integrated NOS dry system, other than fuel pump failures from being on too long when nitrous wasn't being used.
Brian and Greg have dry systems, but without fuel. How scary is that?
It's Compucar's "Bottle in a bag". They don't get any cheaper than this- a bottle, a solenoid, and a nylon tube to the airbox. This setup is great on an LS1 and other newer MAF engine control configs. But on our outdated engine controls w/ a MAP sensor, the motor won't respond to the nitrous injection because it can't see it like an MAF can. And the O2 sensors are in open loop, so they won't help.
Brian and Greg's cars are fast because they're lean as he11. They have adjustable regulators and a rich chip, which make the car too rich without nitrous, but lean with nitrous. Very bad idea, especially without a wide band O2 to look at it.
The only systems you can trust are NOS's dry system w/ a higher pressure fuel pump and control regulator, or an independent downstream wet fogger system. The NOS dry system allows the car to run 100% without nitrous, and then raises the fuel pressure when the nitrous is on to add the fuel (same pulse width).
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris (edited 07-11-2001).]
Wet systems are a bad idea for overall reliability, as we have seen. I haven't yet heard a problem with the integrated NOS dry system, other than fuel pump failures from being on too long when nitrous wasn't being used.
Brian and Greg have dry systems, but without fuel. How scary is that?
It's Compucar's "Bottle in a bag". They don't get any cheaper than this- a bottle, a solenoid, and a nylon tube to the airbox. This setup is great on an LS1 and other newer MAF engine control configs. But on our outdated engine controls w/ a MAP sensor, the motor won't respond to the nitrous injection because it can't see it like an MAF can. And the O2 sensors are in open loop, so they won't help.
Brian and Greg's cars are fast because they're lean as he11. They have adjustable regulators and a rich chip, which make the car too rich without nitrous, but lean with nitrous. Very bad idea, especially without a wide band O2 to look at it.
The only systems you can trust are NOS's dry system w/ a higher pressure fuel pump and control regulator, or an independent downstream wet fogger system. The NOS dry system allows the car to run 100% without nitrous, and then raises the fuel pressure when the nitrous is on to add the fuel (same pulse width).
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris (edited 07-11-2001).]
07-11-2001, 03:36 PM
#33
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Anyone know of a source to get a new airbox? Mine is toast. The bolts that hold it to the vehicle did their best to go through the hood. None of them succeeded.
Kurt are you still running the nitrous system? What type is it? Am kind of glad to hear I "ain't" the only one with troubles like this. I don't feel as much of a lunkhead.
Thanks for the sagely advise.
Kurt are you still running the nitrous system? What type is it? Am kind of glad to hear I "ain't" the only one with troubles like this. I don't feel as much of a lunkhead.
Thanks for the sagely advise.
07-11-2001, 05:36 PM
#34
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Kurt was an NX customer, and is now rebuilding his motor after the nitrous damage detailed above...
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris (edited 07-11-2001).]
Chris
[This message has been edited by zrchris (edited 07-11-2001).]
07-11-2001, 05:47 PM
#35
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Mr Y car,
Try calling Chris Razor @ Tech Welding in Plymouth Mich. He works out of Truesdell truck shop, located at plymouth rd and globe st. He's one of the best welders in the US, he does alot of work for the topfuel and funny car guys when they blow **** up...
sorry i don't have the # though.
hope this helps ya
later
larry
Try calling Chris Razor @ Tech Welding in Plymouth Mich. He works out of Truesdell truck shop, located at plymouth rd and globe st. He's one of the best welders in the US, he does alot of work for the topfuel and funny car guys when they blow **** up...
sorry i don't have the # though.
hope this helps ya
later
larry
07-11-2001, 06:26 PM
#36
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[This message has been edited by USAZR1 (edited 07-11-2001).]
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07-11-2001, 09:48 PM
#38
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Pulled the plenum, plugs, oil filter, and grabbed a sample of antifreeze.
All vacuum lines were still attached to the plenum. I suspected at least one would have come off.
The oil filter show no contamination. Neither did the antifreeze. The throttle plates on the secondaries and the throttle body look fine. The plugs are black with gas, but I suspect that the ECM was really dumping in the fuel in limp home mode as I drove it with the killer hole in the pleum to work.
Looks like the engine escaped damage. The air filter housing is hosed, but the MarK coplan duct is intact and well.
Here are a few more pics.
Thanks for tolerating my dribble.
All vacuum lines were still attached to the plenum. I suspected at least one would have come off.
The oil filter show no contamination. Neither did the antifreeze. The throttle plates on the secondaries and the throttle body look fine. The plugs are black with gas, but I suspect that the ECM was really dumping in the fuel in limp home mode as I drove it with the killer hole in the pleum to work.
Looks like the engine escaped damage. The air filter housing is hosed, but the MarK coplan duct is intact and well.
Here are a few more pics.
Thanks for tolerating my dribble.
07-12-2001, 12:38 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by USAZR1:
[B
[B
tt
[This message has been edited by USAZR1 (edited 07-11-2001).][/B][/color]
[This message has been edited by USAZR1 (edited 07-11-2001).][/B][/color]
You're pretty talkative on the topic.
[img]http]//www.corvetteforum.cc/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Neill