blu00rdstr

So, what's the latest ranking of pistons? I'm thinking (true) thermal coated Diamond forged -8.6cc reverse dome pistons. Otherwise custom coated Ross pistons with longer top ring down distance for strong ring lands. My immediate goal is to get the car running.

The saga of the TSP mailorder engine is coming to a close after over two months of looking at the old motor parts.

<rant on>
TSP and I agreed to disagree, we kept talking in circles; I believe a piston design without quench caused detonation, and they believe detonation killed the pistons. Mahle concurs that there's detonation damage, but hasn't responded to any further questions. TSP maintains that any change of a motor, especially changing piston design, requires a complete retune to avoid detonation. I reply that I didn't have detonation problems under the conditions the Mahles failed in, so the design of the pistons caused the detonation.

So TSP is going to ship the disassembled broken motor back to me, without pistons, collect freight. Nope, they're not taking care of me, other than offering a discount on a new set of (different) pistons.

Such a total waste of time. When the motor failed in October, I asked them to split the cost of a set of pistons with me (about $200 each split), and I'd have the motor rebuilt myself. Instead they insisted they inspect the motor and they've spent well over $400 in time and shipping costs, plus have cost me $200 in shipping costs. Plus they've pissed off a customer. So, bad business decisions all around. They haven't taken care of their customer, they didn't make a right financial decision, and they've lost a customer and caused a loss of reputation.
<rant off>

mdhmi

My best advise is to find a local tuner that is a proven winner and let them select all of the internals as well as build, install, and tune it.

As for pistons I like JE and Mahle. The fact that W2W and Best Machine use them tells me everything I need to know.

Good luck,

Mark

NassauBlue98

I can't even believe this. They were so insistent on having a chance to take care of you in your original thread. Now you gave them more than a chance and you end up in a head butting match. That's the point where they need to step up and support their customer.

I feel for you with the frustration, money spent in vain, and the downtime on your car. I really hope things work out better for you this time around so you can enjoy your car again this season.

I think it's fair to say that TSP has not only lost one customer in this deal, but also lost MANY potential customers. After following your story in detail since the beginning there is no way I would order an engine from them. I realize there may be details to this that we don't understand, but from the seemingly factual information you have presented (and no finger pointing, etc.), there would be way too many doubts in my mind to put any faith in TSP.

Again, I hope things work out for you. This situation plain sucks.

John

Bill Reid

JE has never let me down

Bill

RED99

I would have some pistons custom made. I had some ROSS pistons made for my Turbo Harley and they worked great. I coated the tops with a high temp ceramic, and the skirts with a dry film lube. I had broke a ring land off the stock piston when running 16 psi, so I went with ROSS because they special made some piston to my request. And I had the top ring land moved down. It was a full dish with about a 1/4 wide rim for a little bit of squish. Seemed to be enough.
I think most dished pistons are going to be just a big counter bore drop in the center of the piston because it's the easiest way to make a dish piston. But they will make it match you combustion chamber, but I think you have to give them some sort of templete or a cad file for them to make it to.
When you start running high boost on pump gas and break a piston, I don't think you will get much support from any piston manufactor. Sorry to say that.
I think if you dont like the dish they machined, your only chance for a refund would be to send the pistons back before you used them.
It's obvious that your pistons broke from severe detonation. Whether it was caused by the lack of squish, would be hard (or very expensive) to prove. I would be more open minded that it could be the timing/ fuel mixture just to be safe. You may have just got some crappy fuel. Who knows for sure. But if it was me, I would do everthing possible for insurance that it won't happen again. ( Conservative Tune, Meth injection, double core radiator, and a wide band A/F gauge to monitor you A/F while driving, and a fuel pressure gauge).
I wish you better luck on the next build.

AVB

Sorry to hear things didn't work out for you. Seems to me like they wanted to check things out to cover themselves... I'm still amazed that they failed to see this as something ending up as a positive for both of you.

Get the work done locally so everything after-the-fact will be backed up.

Arnel

0Jeff @ TPE

I bet you at this point you would have rather spent the little extra money for the pistons MONTHS ago and actually got to drive you car, that to have to wait months for them to tell you to go pound sand.


This plain SUCKS..

0Slowhawk

Our race motor's get JE's. I've had good luck with MAHL and Diamond's in our street cars though.

RoadRebel

Im a JE and Mahle fan myself . If you going to use Diamond you better have a competent shop do the work.They often requre a lot of rework and someone at home rarely has the equipment or knowledge to address the issues.

Phil

NICK YOSKIN

arent CP real good too?

BLOWNZO6

JE for me.

They are not cheap, but they are right.

QuickSilver2002

That totally sucks, I think we all knew what the outcome would be. It is just too easy to blame tuning/install… when multiple people are involved. In TSPs defense, I can see where they would be suspicious and not want to foot the bill for someone running the motor without a new tune… but their big screwup was telling you to send back the motor and waste all that time when they knew dam well and good that the blame would be put on detonation/tune/you (you posted pics…..).

The thing that made this particular situation so interesting was the fact that you stated this all happened at part throttle with only one quick blip of partial boost when the car downshifted. It also seemed that the measurements you took indicated that the pistons were coming a little too far out of the hole.

Oh well, chalk it up to experience and don’t run the next motor past vacuum until you get someone to tune and scan it….. Most of the pistons out there designed for boosted applications just work and can take quite a bit of abuse. I would personally stay away from the full dish, but my reasons are honestly based on very limited experience.

xtream1

Blu,

Sorry to hear about the bad news.
I think that the least TSP should have done was to absorb the shipping both ways even given their opinion on cause of failure primarily due to their enhanced request for in-house inspection. TSP is definitely out for me and anyone else I can influence.

As for the new slugs, I use a set of full dish -12cc Ross pistons which I obtained used and are still performing flawlessly in spite of previous inadequate fuel issues, occasional BAP setbacks, and 16psi boosting.

Regarding prevention of future damage, #1-install a Meth system, #2-don't skimp on the fuel system. In fact make sure it's overkill as it's cheaper than a motor and it will come up short at some point, #3-Get the best tuner you can BEFORE you see ANY boost, and #4-install a wideband AFR gauge so you know when something's off.

mdhmi

Mail order motors at bargain basement prices don't come with warranties. Everyone knows that. TSP didn't spec the entire motor (heads included), or install / tune the setup. They can't possibly be expected to warranty the motor.

What happened still sucks and the part that is total BS was that they wasted the customers time and money with the shipping nonsense when they had to know damn well that they weren't going to warranty it. They should have said from the beginning that you're on your own.

Mark

Hool97

I totally agree they really should have been honest fromthe outset and said your out of luck. You would be driving your vette right now.

blu00rdstr

Looks like there are no negative opinions on Diamond, Ross, or JE. I'll be shopping for a set of (stock diameter?) coated pistons. I'll measure the bore again when the block arrives. I have to decide on custom top down or off the shelf, but it looks like I can't go wrong with these three brands. I also have my old set of Eagle H-Rods and the slightly used Scat rods to choose from, they're both 6.125" with full floating pins. I think they're roughly equivalent in strength, the Eagle rods are prettier but they'll be buried inside the motor.

I agree with pretty much everyone. I am kicking myself as well because I should've taken more 'ownership' of the situation and not just trusted parts recommendations. By the time I got the motor I just wanted to get it running again (hmm, have I learned that lesson?). I also knew better than to send the motor back. I agreed to ship back to TSP since they originally publicly said they'd cover all costs, so I'll have to review those other posts. Thanks for the support!

Skunkworks

Best of luck to you and hope your C5 is back on the road soon!

Mike

Gatzer

From reading your original thread, and now this one, you got screwed.

Perhaps the vendor in question has something to add to this thread being they replied to your initial one.

0C_Williams@RPM

Wiseco, Diamond, JE...all good

chriskaw7r

How about MAHLE? I have them and have no problems, coated sides and top standard to boot!