http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...pid=controller

This thing looks real cool -- it's a fully programmable methanol pump controller that will allow you to tweak how much methanol is sprayed and when. Has a built in MAP sensor and can accept auxillary 0-5v input, so you could theoretically have it not only spray against boost, but spray against boost and IAT (spray more meth as IAT goes up).

Optionally without a computer to program it with, it will run off pre-designed programs.

Does anyone have a Vari-cool controller? Do you like it? I wonder if it will work with my ECS meth kit pump.

 

Yest it will work. I've heard good things about the controller. Probably overkill for most people.

 

I'm still waiting for the controller that takes in MAP pressure AND rpm.
I don't see how a controller like that helps with a turbo system that nominally puts out 8 psi through a broad rpm range. The engine obviously needs more meth as the rpms go up.

Seems like the simplest would be a meth controller that uses the injector signal to control output with a pre-determined threshold of course. i think I did see one like that at one time but I wasn't interested as I was running a blow through carberutor at the time. I'll have to check back.

Still seems amazing to me with all the interest in meth injection and the competing controllers that they are still doing it "wrong".

I've argued with Julio about this several times but he just doesn't see the need for it - but I think he's wrong

 

I've talked w/ Julio about this in depth as well and it always came down to this...

When using something with more "bells" did it make more power? One thing about alky is that it doesn't need to be introduced in exact amounts. It takes alot more to overdo it, so if it doesn't need it, then why complicate it and risk more possibilities of failure. His controllers are pretty bullet-proof and until these new units are as proven and maybe a before and after showing they actually do gain more power, I'll just stick w/ his.

One thing to keep in mind is the more exact it get's the more dependent you become to it. I, for one, hopes someone checks it out and lets us know how it turns out.

Arnel

 

Huh.. when?

Whats wrong is you reduce injector DC and now your automatically reducing alcohol. So you start chasing your tail. The use of methanol is to reduce your IDC and supplement with alcohol.

If your scenario where to be correct.. you would never see a flat AFR rite?

 

Arnel... KISS is the best principle.

The confusion is understanding how this stuff works. We are not dealing with a fuel injector over an intake port. The pump has mass which creates delays.. It takes time to physically make pressure. It is not instant.. even if it was.. you still have a delay since the nozzle is ahead of the TB, lines need to fill, nozzle needs to mist, etc... Let alone cylinder distributions issues.. in other words a 5 gigahertz processor on a slow pump.. wont make a difference.

The amount of fuel displaced is low on injection kits. Even systems like mine which are heavy in the amount it can shoot in.. are only at best a 20% fuel replacement.. typically only 10%. So micromanaging a small amount of alcohol dispersed into an intake is a non-effective.

There are some cases in which I can see how a load based system can help. Example is the Ford Mustang with roots blower. Whereby you have a blower that makes 10 PSI at 2000 RPM's.. then makes 18 PSI at 4200.. and stays at 18 PSI all the way up to 6000 RPM's. Meaning a totally unlinear curve. This is off course a Ford.. and on those the controller tracks off the MAF.. and delivers perfect tracking.

Now comes the Vette.. you start making 500 RWHP+ and you have a situation that the MAF is getting pegged. So what is done is track of a MAP sensor. The higher the boost, the higher the pressure. Simple, easy, effective, tunable, and hundreds upon hundreds of dyno hours confirm results.

In over 3 years.. less than a handful of controllers have failed. I believe the number is at 4 or 5 now total. Last one was before Christmas last year. Do I want to risk messing with a product not giving me any issues.. the answer is no. 99% of issue that arise are due to installation.. and the majority are due to faulty grounds.

The BBQ sauce aint cuasing heartburn.. leave the recipe alone


If anyone can show me an issue with a curve that is not correctable with the controller.. I will make a change. until then.. no need to re-invent what is working. maybe work on cosmetics.. but zero reliability issues keeps me extremely biased to not make a change, let alone put someones 15,000 dollar engine on the line...

Experiment with lawnmowers.. not high end forced induction power plants. And if anyone would want a change.. it would be ECS.. and theyre content leaving well enough alone

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1503841

Look at air fuel graph.

Guess we need to start making changes

 

Also look at this one.



http://www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection/#

From site This advanced product is engineered to deliver a fine mist that can be precisely metered based on MAP PSI, TPS, RPM, and Fuel injector duty-cycle. With the use of 1 and 2 dimensional maps, it is possible to program the controller to deliver exactly the correct amount of spray without the risk of flooding the combustion chamber.


Mike

 

Good find... The FJO unit looks insane, but if I remember correctly was about twice the cost of any other kit out there.

 

Got a buddy that runs one on his bird and he loves it. He’s had it for while and constantly messing with it.


Mike

 

One thing that cracks me up about this is that they take that same old sureflow pump that everyone uses (started with the orginal DIY thread on turbobuick) and they put a fancy looking heat sink on it. I'm guessing they charge 10x what the pump cost.

It does look like a sweet setup (if you have $$ to burn). With a centri blower it is easy to push more alky with rpm. Never really thought about the issue with turbos before. Some people use the MAF, but that is a restriction most people want to eliminate (so RPM mapping would be useful).

 

Some of the Aquamist stuff can go well over 3,000.00.

The big issue amount of flow. The valve is too small to sustain any really high flow. Pump needs heatsink since its a by-pass pump that runs all the time.

Whats that old saying.. "Show me the money".. when I see results on motors making big HP.. and making positive improvements to track elapsed times.. = greater power.. then my interest perks up.

Until thing.. its all in that electric supercharger/intake tornado category whereby it should.. it could.. it may..

Keeping it real

 

So that system keeps the pump on all the time and controls flow with the solenoid? If so, that is goofy.

 

Reason is to keep constant pressure. Its a solenoid so you cannot lets say hit it with 200 PSI pressure..

A company called ATR use to make a "7th Injector" for the turbo Buicks.. it would have a box and run an injector of the fuel rail to compensate for inadequate injectors.

Same thing was done 15 years ago.. now with a twist.

If any trash or debris gets trapped in the solenoid valve.. you'll hydro your motor since the pump is always under pressure

Back under my rock

 

If I’m not mistaken the systems that try to maintain pressure are easy to spot as they are equipped with demand switch on front (diaphragm) portion of Surflow pump. That switch is designed to maintain x pressure and cycles pump as required to keep it there.


Mike

 

Yup the bypass pumps have springs inside that set the pressure. The non-bypass have a pressure switch that activates/deactivates power to the pump.. this keeps the pressure in check.

There are many variations to these pumps. Some self priming, some not. Some have thermal limiters, some dont. Cam gearing, valve materials, diaphram materials, check valving, motors, etc. Easy 200 different pumps made by the same MFG.. all from afar look the same.

Just like anything.. you dig deep enough.. you get to the bottom on how things work.

Wheel is still round

 

Ive been using this pump setup for the whole season without issue.

shurflo 8000 Series Diaphragm Pump
High Pressure 150 PSI @ 12amp, .83g/min, Demand Pump,
Model 8030-813-239.

Note the good mist pattern.



I went this route with the nozzles because magnuson objected to spraying ahead of the blower. I doubt there is any advantage over the conventional one nozzle placement.

 

Keep an eye on the plastic tubing. With time and heat it tends to get hard/britle.

If your shooting water/mixes non issue except you can make a mess. On straight alcohol.. it can take its toll easier. UV, infrared, heat, temp changes, etc.. all have an affect over time. The higher the heat.. the worse and faster the degredation.

One sign would be an elevated long term fueling calc if it develops a vacuum leak since its after the TB.

I dont know the particulars of the model your using, its not the model we start off with. If its working for you.. great