joshtownsend

Let me say this...When you say you running a NON meth reliant tune.. that's not really true...The more research and testing i do, the more I realize hats its been said wrong for who knows how long.Let me explain.

You can only have one tune on your car at a time. That's given, but you got to understand that. That means at WOT, whatever yuor tuner commands the A/F ratio to be at WOT, is whats is going to be from now on. SO lets say you run no meth at all. from 3000 to 6500 rpm's, you A/F is say 12.3 And again, i'm just getting ball park numbers here.

OK the same setup , you deiced to spray meth "for safety" so yuor tuner starts to dyno the car and watches the A/F ratio as the meth is introduced into the intake.. as it does, the ratio will drop and more fuel , timing ect has to be added to get it back to the desire A/F say 12.3.

They do this all the way up to red line and that's is the tune your car will run. Now, when they say your getting a meth reliant tune.. That's means you using the meth to push yuor A/F raito to the point of just before datenation and it will make the most power. The problem wit that is "if" the meth for some reason does not spray, yuor car goes boom. ON the other side, if they give you a "non meth reliant tune" they tune the same car for say 11.3 A/F ratio with the meth all the way thur the red line. which is less power, but if the meth does not spray, the A/F ratio goes up to say 12.3 which is safe for the car .. It will probably just fall on its face a run really bad.

So, in the end, if you have meth on your car.. it's a meth reliant tune.. its just a matter of "HOW" reliant the tuner wants to get with your tune and how much power and chances you want to take. In the end, you want you A/F ratio to be constant number the whole way thur, if yuor tuner does not do this, your car is not tuned as well as it should be.

Now, as far as 50/50 or 100.. its really a matter of choice, again, 100% will be added fuel and has too be tuned for that, 50/50 is a little different and it has to be tuned for that as well.. I don't know if i would try to go back and forth. Like i said, it about about consantanty.. with 100% you know it's 100% not some ratio whether you mix it or someone else does it for you.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

You are describing a meth-reliant tune as a non-meth-reliant tune. It is possible to tune a car where it doesn't "fall on its face" and where it won't blow up if the meth doesn't come on. I am tuning one that way now. He won't get maximum power and understands that. It's give and take. Pick your poison. You have to decide when enough is enough. It's possible to make a 800rwhp non-meth-reliant tuned car. If we made it a meth reliant tune, it would make ~100rwhp more. We will tune it to 11.5:1 AFR and then pick up ~.5AFR by adding the meth and adjust the dial on the meth controller until we achieve it but NOT CHANGE THE TUNE.
50/50 vs. 100% is a matter of choice, but your choice should be made with the understanding that 100% will pull more power on a non-meth-reliant tune than 50/50 will. If the mixture ends up being 60/40 or 70/30 or whatever, it's not going to create a critical situation.

cobill1972

It seems you can almost relate this to an A/A meeting "hello my name is Bill and I am a meth reliant tune" lol

Ok so here is what I was digging around on an d copied on Snow's website under FAQ:


Can I use pure methanol?
While all components of Snow Performance systems are designed to be able to handle pure methanol, it is not recommended for a number of reasons.

• Safety: Pure methanol is easy to ignite and burns with an almost invisible flame.
• Performance: Water absorbs twice as much heat as methanol in the intake and inside the combustion chamber. Water cannot be flash-ignited, so has what is almost an infinite octane number. In the government studies for WWII piston-powered aircraft, 50/50 water-methanol was found to be the best fluid to use for auxiliary fluid injection.
• Tuning and Engine reliability: Injecting 50/50 water-methanol will prevent over-injection. If too much is injected, it will quench the flame front and the engine will bog and lose power. If too much straight methanol is injected, this will not happen, as methanol is very forgiving of rich mixtures. This could instead lead to explosive backfires, cylinder wash, etc. which will not happen when 50% or more water is in the mixture.

Keep in mind I have some semi retarded techs so after they read the first line they pulled the myth busters act, and tried to light some of the boost juice I purchased on fire although it was pretty cool and it gives off almost a invisible flame, but with a hint of blue but not extremely flammable with a mix.
It looks like if your pretty experienced with tuning like blownblue or Josh with straight Meth you woud be ok these guys seem like they have played with it longer, but for newbie like me a mix might make it a little more user friendly and keep you from "over injecting" when it comes to tuning. That's kind of what I'm gathering.
Snow has some pretty cool add on's on there web site, nitro booster (which looks like it is mixed in with the water/meth kit), safety flow meters which can be used to trigger boost solenoids, wastegates, and I'm guessing you could probably rig it to your ignition for shut down if flow stopped or was interupted which I will look into.

Guys thanks again for helping me understand more about it.

Bill

BLOWNBLUEZ06

One thing you can do with your tune is add or remove timing based on temperatures and cylinder air. In other words, you can remove timing if the meth quits and do it only under boost if you choose. You can have varying timing values for varying boost levels and intake air temps. Lose the meth, IAT's spike, timing is pulled, so the cylinder pressure is reduced.

joshtownsend

If you tune it like that, why use meth in the first place.. My first blower car didn't have meth at all and was fine.. I understand you can, but it seems very pointless to do so becuase you don't gain very much at all for the work your putting in. at least that the way i see it..

joshtownsend

You still blow your motor becuase it will not pull timing fast enough..usually

And I'm not trying to doubt you in anyways.. I'm learning myself.. So please don't take me the wrong way.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

Fair enough, but I speak from experience. I have made full 1/4 mile passes in my car with a totally meth reliant tune and had no knock and no damage.
Lost the meth again on the dyno WOT and still going.

At the end of the day, you do the best you can and try to go out and enjoy your car. If something happens, it happens, but you gotta do what you can to prevent failures.

Blow Torch

I reiterate, I have a non-meth reliant tune. It is tuned at 11.5;1 and 15*timing. It makes more power than I really need on the stock short block, so I am injecting Meth at the top to insure a little safety and it DOES NOT, fall on it's face even with a non progressive injection system, which I'm changing to progressive.
Opinions differ, but the general consensus on the other forums really lean toward the "safety factor" of injection a little meth on a blown engine.
I have heard too many tuners recommend it to ignore it, and if it doesn't affect the power significantly, I'm in.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

The stock engine wasn't designed for boost. The metal changes properties over time due to heat and fatigue and I would rather lower my cylinder temps if nothing else. It's just an insurance policy that's all. It's a preference. I too have had many F/I vehicles without meth. One that I've put over 100kmi on and still going. I've only changed the belt on it once.

tommypenguin

Good thread to educate a newb like myself on what to consider when using meth and what preventative measures you can take for meth failure.

The Highlander

I have made it that with meth I can get 11.5 AFR... shut the meth off... i get 11.5 AFR.... best of both worlds....