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My supercharged wastegate setup is done

Old 05-19-2012, 11:20 AM
  #21  
Carlmc1
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Its a great idea. I have a similar setup. I'm surprised its not more common.

Carl
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:42 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by RamAirTA View Post
For those of you who can't seem to understand what the OP is trying to accomplish with his desire to add power under the curve without adding too much more boost, maybe this will help.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ate/index.html
I understand it, but I just don't see the results as that great. He pullied down AND added a cam along with these mods. Who knows what it would have looked like with the simple restrictor in there. If you are going increase the power band down low and near peak torque, I do not see why you would want to taper it off up top. You will just be slower, and you aren't reducing cylinder pressure in the least to help the engine live.

All I see is a blower capable of making 800+rwhp maxing out at 615rwhp just to get a little more under the curve. The high IAT's that come with that impeller speed are still there. The boost and power are the only thing missing. A TV2300 will give you BETTER results, and it is more simplistic and efficient. If you want a flat torque curve you can accomplish it 10x better with turbos or a top mount blower. A wastegate on a centrifugal setup negates some of it's benefits. That linear torque curve is easier on parts, and in some case helps with traction.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:04 AM
  #23  
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whats with all the hate! quit bashin the guy. its a proven setup. and this setup will never see the iat's a pd blower will produce. and who cares if he is not maxing out the blower at his level the ait's on the 2000 will be less then that of using a 1500 just cuz its not even close to pushing it. keep updating bro and add some pics.

Last edited by blkdevl; 05-20-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:33 PM
  #24  
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Well this brings up a ? I have had for a while, why does a PD or tubos make more TQ than a centri?
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:56 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 95wht6spd View Post
Well this brings up a ? I have had for a while, why does a PD or tubos make more TQ than a centri?
Because PD blowers produce boost instantly so you have TQ and HP instantly but tend to die up top. Whereas Turbos use the exhaust energy to spin the Turbine, which takes less energy to spin once is gets going. The Centri will always have drag and it actually increases with RPM. I hope that makes sense
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:15 PM
  #26  
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If this is a proven setup then why dont A and A or ECS do this to all there setups?
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:05 PM
  #27  
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u just asked if its proven that wastegates r used to regulate boost. tell me u just didnt! that is all he is doing with it is regulating boost by blowing off what he doesnt need.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:17 AM
  #28  
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pianoprodigy - Will do buddy! As of now I would recommend it if anybody asked.
2003Vett- I don't deal with flashing at all, but if I did I think I'd be looking for other options too!! Holy cow batman! thats a lot of flashing.
UserName- It truly is a pitty that your reading and comprehension is so bad.
1. If you would read my very first post I dicussed why the power dropped off at the end. (and I included the data to show it). When I go to a larger wastegate this will not be an issue. Power only dropped off because he left off the throttle before stopping the log. LOOK AT THE BOOST IN THE DATA. I'm sure I will see closer to 650 with this fixed.
2. Yes, your right..I could have thrown my Novi in the trash and fabbed a brand new turbo setup or bought a maggie I suppose for more torque. The Novi is already on the car and I was going to do the cam anyway, for the couple of dollars it cost me I thought I'd try something different and give it a shot. I like to try new things, have fun, and share my results with others. I never said this is the absolute ideal setup in the world!! If I wanted to drive a turbo car then I would go pick up another set of keys off of the key rack and take a different car out for the day.
3. Your telling me this setup is pointless, yet your bitching about a few possible degrees of air temperature?? hahaha. Get a life dude. Your really grasping at straws now aren't you? I'm not really concerned with the IATs with the intercooler and meth. I'm not over spinning the blower and many other guys spin it faster with no issues. A few degrees of IATs really makes no difference.
4. Lastly, you are correct - Traction has definitely decreased.
BlkDvl - Thanks for the support and noticing the uneducated hater.
Fotoboy - I don't know. Maybe one of them will comment. From my discussions with the guys at ECS, I do believe they are well aware of this idea and have seen a few around though.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:08 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by 96TTdodge View Post
pianoprodigy - Will do buddy! As of now I would recommend it if anybody asked.
2003Vett- I don't deal with flashing at all, but if I did I think I'd be looking for other options too!! Holy cow batman! thats a lot of flashing.
UserName- It truly is a pitty that your reading and comprehension is so bad.
1. If you would read my very first post I dicussed why the power dropped off at the end. (and I included the data to show it). When I go to a larger wastegate this will not be an issue. Power only dropped off because he left off the throttle before stopping the log. LOOK AT THE BOOST IN THE DATA. I'm sure I will see closer to 650 with this fixed.
2. Yes, your right..I could have thrown my Novi in the trash and fabbed a brand new turbo setup or bought a maggie I suppose for more torque. The Novi is already on the car and I was going to do the cam anyway, for the couple of dollars it cost me I thought I'd try something different and give it a shot. I like to try new things, have fun, and share my results with others. I never said this is the absolute ideal setup in the world!! If I wanted to drive a turbo car then I would go pick up another set of keys off of the key rack and take a different car out for the day.
3. Your telling me this setup is pointless, yet your bitching about a few possible degrees of air temperature?? hahaha. Get a life dude. Your really grasping at straws now aren't you? I'm not really concerned with the IATs with the intercooler and meth. I'm not over spinning the blower and many other guys spin it faster with no issues. A few degrees of IATs really makes no difference.
4. Lastly, you are correct - Traction has definitely decreased.
BlkDvl - Thanks for the support and noticing the uneducated hater.
Fotoboy - I don't know. Maybe one of them will comment. From my discussions with the guys at ECS, I do believe they are well aware of this idea and have seen a few around though.
1) So your data isn't worth much
2) Definitely not ideal and not worth the trouble.
3) Yea, IAT isn't critical or anything in forced induction. Teach me more. Spinning a blower higher does not increase IAT's?
4) A car with the same cam and pulley setup that does not run a wastegate is going to make 750-800. What was the point?
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:58 AM
  #30  
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I tried this on my last build and it worked great.
the point is to have adjustability and a completely different power band.
for example if you are a stock bottom end obviously you dont want 800hp. so you put a wastagte on to regulate the boost up top. Now, normally you would get lets say 650 on 10lbs (example) and the powerband is very linear. so we pulley down to lets say 18-20lbs now you have that 10lbs at/from 2500-3000rpm all the way to redline instead of just at peak rpm 6500rpm. which changes the powerband drastically! the IAT's really arent an issue if your using meth so thats a bit of a mut point.

Now im not saying this setup is for everybody but people have used it, it works great when properly setup, and changes alot of the power adders known characteristics for the better depending on the purpose of its use.

regardless not sure why all the hate, but carry on. kuddos to the OP! good job
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:07 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dascorcha21 View Post
I tried this on my last build and it worked great.
the point is to have adjustability and a completely different power band.
for example if you are a stock bottom end obviously you dont want 800hp. so you put a wastagte on to regulate the boost up top. Now, normally you would get lets say 650 on 10lbs (example) and the powerband is very linear. so we pulley down to lets say 18-20lbs now you have that 10lbs at/from 2500-3000rpm all the way to redline instead of just at peak rpm 6500rpm. which changes the powerband drastically! the IAT's really arent an issue if your using meth so thats a bit of a mut point.

Now im not saying this setup is for everybody but people have used it, it works great when properly setup, and changes alot of the power adders known characteristics for the better depending on the purpose of its use.

regardless not sure why all the hate, but carry on. kuddos to the OP! good job
I'm not simply trying to give him a hard time. He comes on here posting like he invented the wheel. His results aren't that impressive imo, and he decides to start insulting me for commenting.

IAT's are usually not an issue with meth, but I wouldn't want to increase them for no good reason. I still think ECS has the right method in this. K.I.S.S.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #32  
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in its true form it does yield alot better results for higher hp cars that want the adjustability wether it be traction, valet mode etc... but regardless it works and lets you fine tune things and not have to mess around with plates etc in order to achieve your exact goals.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:08 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by user_name View Post
1) So your data isn't worth much
2) Definitely not ideal and not worth the trouble.
3) Yea, IAT isn't critical or anything in forced induction. Teach me more. Spinning a blower higher does not increase IAT's?
4) A car with the same cam and pulley setup that does not run a wastegate is going to make 750-800. What was the point?
Once again your demonstrating your poor reading and comprehension skills.
1. The data is useful to somebody that knows how to read and interpret data correctly. You just didn't take the time to READ, and just jumped to the data. Or better yet, somebody who has the same blower and cam (without the wastegate) can compare their boost at certain RPMs.
2. Your opinion is welcome. Thank you.
3. Please show me where I said spinning higher does't increase IATs. Again...your reading error.
4. The point is I'm limiting boost with the wastegate!! Have you missed the entire point of this thread?? lmao!! Your right, I would make 750-800 with a forged bottom end and 20psi too! Please just stop. Your making yourself look like a fool. Save some dignity.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:15 PM
  #34  
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I don't understand the hate. If a guy making 500rwhp on a stock block with a SI trim posts on here are you going to knock him for not turning it up, not maxing out the blower?

This guy now has adjustability to the amount of boost he wishes to run, and faster ramp in of the boost. I don't see the negatives.

IAT's were mentioned and yet in the very next sentence it mentions buying a Maggie or PD blower. Contradicting?
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:33 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 96TTdodge View Post
Once again your demonstrating your poor reading and comprehension skills.
1. The data is useful to somebody that knows how to read and interpret data correctly. You just didn't take the time to READ, and just jumped to the data. Or better yet, somebody who has the same blower and cam (without the wastegate) can compare their boost at certain RPMs.
2. Your opinion is welcome. Thank you.
3. Please show me where I said spinning higher does't increase IATs. Again...your reading error.
4. The point is I'm limiting boost with the wastegate!! Have you missed the entire point of this thread?? lmao!! Your right, I would make 750-800 with a forged bottom end and 20psi too! Please just stop. Your making yourself look like a fool. Save some dignity.
Actually the debate is not worth the trouble due to your obvious lack of knowledge here. I've done the blower route, along with many mods and tweaks, pulley swaps, etc. It was all installed and tuned by me, and I made the stock bottom end live for years on 750rwhp. I'm sure I could take your setup and make it fast AND live longer sans wastegate.

When you make it hit the desired boost level before peak torque and carry it to redline nice and flat it would be something worth looking at. Alternatively, if you could ramp boost in high prior to peak torque, lower at peak torque, and then back in for the upper rpm's you'd be on to something. Swapping pullies and other mods while experimenting with boost control with a wastegate doesn't show much. Maybe you proved there was potential, but I'm not impressed with these results.

You simply can't take criticism, but you post this on a public forum. I didn't insult you, but I told you I wasn't impressed. You are the one insulting me rather than debating the merits. The correct cam, timing ramp, and and ECS restrictor would net more ideal results than what you posted here.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:35 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by wilson34 View Post
I don't understand the hate. If a guy making 500rwhp on a stock block with a SI trim posts on here are you going to knock him for not turning it up, not maxing out the blower?
Apples to oranges.

This idea has been around for decades and isn't used often because of the strain it places on the headunit.
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:37 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by fotoboy View Post
If this is a proven setup then why dont A and A or ECS do this to all there setups?
ECS does it it via a restricter plate.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:03 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ysb02 View Post
Apples to oranges.

This idea has been around for decades and isn't used often because of the strain it places on the headunit.
Can you please explain to me what specific "strain" your referring to?
Whats the difference between spinning a blower 70k (example) with a wastegate or without? Where is the additional strain? - I just don't see it.

I would actually love it if we could get ECS or an owner to publish their boost numbers as I did with a restrictor plate. That would be the icing on the cake here for this thread I suppose.
Surely there are hundreds of guys running a Novi 2000 with their small blower cam. Heck, ECS must have 2000 dyno logs on file.
Don't get me wrong, I know ECSs restrictor plate attempts to accomplish the same idea, and they have certainly mastered it with great results! HOWEVER, I would be very impressed to see boost results at/or better than what I've done with the wastegate. (keep in mind, I could change to a 3" pulley and get boost even faster) This isn't a "knock" on a restrictor plate setup, not sure why some people are trying to make it an "ECS battle". As I've said, ECS talked with me through this on many occassions and were interested in handling my install/tune. I took the car to Horsepower Addicts simply because of my work schedule and travel.
As I initially said in my first post - With a larger wastegate I'm confident I will be able to hold 14 up top - that would be ideal, but for now, this is what I have to share. The forums are for questions,ideas and education right?
Soooo, who can post their dyno data with a restrictor plate setup at about 14psi max with the ECS small blower cam? How much boost were you making from 3000 - 6000rpm? Blitzkreig (the clown) just did this right?
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:38 PM
  #39  
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Here's the deal-io..

This setup flat out works. Generally done in higher horse cars that race, but the OP demonstrated the same difference with a more conservative outcome, purposely. Well done sir.

My .02 on user_name- You are being a little over the top dude. I hope you're cooler in person.

Headunit strain- It comes from running the head unit at a higher rpm while at the same time, being limited to how much pressure is flowing freely. It's "pushing" against the wastegate if you will. It does add some strain which is why it takes both a large wastegate and large properly placed blow off valves to keep that pressure in check. When you pedal or just let off the gas, that split second that and undersized or improperly placed bov/wastegate throws pressure back into the blower is a biyatch on the blower.

Think about what happens if you stick your thumb over the opposite end of a straw and blow into it as hard as you can. Your eyes bulge and your ears pop. Same thing.

I love this setup.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:40 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by 96TTdodge View Post
Can you please explain to me what specific "strain" your referring to?
Whats the difference between spinning a blower 70k (example) with a wastegate or without? Where is the additional strain? - I just don't see it.
I'd thought about the wastegate idea, too. Kudos for giving it a shot.

For the added strain, when you change the pulley size you're changing how fast the blower spins. Just because your wastegate is there to keep you at 14psi, the blower is actually being worked harder, especially at WOT than it was before. If you think that it isn't, close the wastegate and see how much boost you make. The wastegate is regulating the boost going into the engine, not how fast the blower is turning.

I'm looking forward to seeing your results when you run it WOT. Good luck with it.
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