Neil B

Ok guys, we had a great time at the Texas Mile but my current meth injection setup could not keep the IATs down on the long pull. I started digging into this and here are the details:

1) I'm currently running dual nozzles (625 ml/min and 375 ml/min). I believe this is roughly equivalent to an M15 and M10 nozzle setup. You can see below how my nozzles are oriented to the IAT sensor.



2) To see the actual flow rate, I pulled the elbow and pressurized the system. The nozzle spray pattern looks great. The system flowed 47 oz. of fluid in 60 seconds at 1 atmosphere. That's roughly 22 gal/hour.



So what gives? Not enough meth? Nozzles to far from the IAT sensor? The F1R blower is just that inefficient?

I don't want this to turn into a this-kit-vs-that-kit discussion. The motor doesn't know who's name is on the parts. If something needs to be upgraded, I will consider it, but don't just tell me to scrap the system. I want to know why.

Thanks!

95wht6spd

How old is the sensor?
Don't some people put the sensor in the intake manifold to get the most accurate reading?

Neil B

The sensor is about 2 years old. Maybe 500 miles on it. My scan logs show the sensor working fine. IATs were around 100 degrees F at the start of the runs and climbing hard form there. As soon as I let out, they quickly came back down.

GoatKart

Bah, you posted the IAT right before i posted a response.You certain the metal charge tube itself isn't heat soaking your sensor reading by the end of the run?

If your charge tube is 100 F + there is a lot of thermal mass for the meth to try and pull down from there, as well as from the intake charge itself..

Just a thought. Might be totally off base

Neil B

I guess the issue is that my charge tube, sensor location, nozzle location, and flow rates aren't much different than what everyone else here is running. But many guys here seem to be able to hold IATs at or near ambient temps. I know some of these guys are data logging and seeing real results.

redcycle13

What intercooler are you using? That's exactly how I have my meth nozzles set up, and I can keep temps below ambient, but that's with a smaller D1SC blower. I've heard the F1R is a heat monster. I just upgraded to a new F1a-94,but have no results yet.

Neil B

I've got the A&A ram air design intercooler on it.

jbsblownc5

I've had very good luck with the Alky control duel nozzle...

BLOWNBLUEZ06

a M15 nozzle flows 15 gallons per hour at 100psi. The Alky Control kit typically runs 200psi when wide open. Even at 15 gallons per hour, that's a quart per minute, which is closer to 950ml. Without doing all the math, my guess is a M15 nozzle will run about 1500ml/minute at pressure.

Neil B

So do you think my 22 gal/hr not enough? The meth is definitely showing up in the AFR's. My AFR's dropped over 1.5 points when I switched from 50/50 to 100% meth. The cooling effect of 100% meth compared to the 50/50 was nil. 50/50 actually ran a bit cooler IATs.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

I've got a couple of conflicting ideas here. I used to run 2 M15 nozzles wide open. I would go through 2 gallons in roughly 1.5 minutes of WOT and did well with it. I've always thrown loads of meth at my builds and it's served us all well.
Trying to step to the next level, I'm becoming more and more concerned with even distribution of the meth because if any cylinder isn't getting its share, you're in trouble. I began designing a direct port system with M3 nozzles. At some point in the design, I realized how small each hole is and how easily one port could get clogged. No safety could be easily tuned in for this. I thought about getting a 10 micron filter that was meth compatible and going further down this design path and all of the sudden decided that I'm not trying to complicate my setup any more. At that point, I sent my 160lb Moran injectors back and ordered 275lb injectors. I'll be turning the meth way down and running E85. Just the high volume of the fuel alone will help keep piston and intake valve temps down. Of course I'm running the Haltech Sport 2000 and simply added a flex fuel sensor so that I'll be able to pour whatever I choose in the tank and drive. Get there on pump gas and change fuel at the event.

skull

alky controls recommends having the iat as far as possible from the meth nozzles. and the nozzles to be as far as possible before getting in the motor so it has time to atomize with the air and mix well. your iat being that close may be a much different reading then having the iat right in front of the tb or in the intake.

my setup is a stock ls6 on 12psi d1s/c no intercooler. without meth I have seen 180-200* it just started getting cold here in MD. but I was seeing 150*intake. during the pull it would drop 60* in under 2 seconds and hold 90* thru all of the pull. my IAT sensor is 4 inches in front of my tb and my meth nozzles are probably 2 ft before the sensor

ajrothm

Neil,

My nozzles are even further away from the IAT sensor then yours, in a stainless steel/PC'd charge pipe, with an F1R pullied 4.25/8.0"(maxed at 68120 rpms@7k) and I still don't see the IATs you see.... Notice my IAT sensor at 6 oclock right by the PS reservoir.....That's a good distance away from the nozzles


Granted I was not wide open nearly as long as yours, but even at only 160 mph, your IATs are much higher then mine with basically the same stuff... I am using the A&A Ram air intercooler, however I had the 1st gen A&A intercooler(the smaller one) and I have exactly the same IATs with both...

To me, it seems like you are getting plenty of meth flow...ASSUMING that meth flow continues through the entire pass....after everything is good and heat soaked. I log meth pressure on mine and I see around 145 psi on average with a M15/M10 nozzle...Less voltage = less pressure so if your alternator belt is slipping, you may be losing some meth flow at high rpms, high heat.

I would make sure your voltage is constant at high rpms on long pulls, log meth pressure and go from there. Moving the nozzles closer to the IAT sensor may help "fool" the sensor/PCM into thinking the IATs are cooler then they are but its not solving the problem.

Here is one of my drag strip passes... Its obviously not the same as holding it wide open for 25 seconds like you did, but that being said, my IATs were only 93* at the end of a 157 mph pull... This was with the IATs starting the pass at 88* and an ambient temp of around 65*. Just for reference

jbsblownc5

You might double check your aftercooler as well and make sure its getting good clean air.

Milan

F1R is known to be a heat monster. Maybe try two M15 nozzles

100% meth or a mix? Kinda looks like bosot juice from your pics

winters97gt

Yeah, that's boost juice, but he ran 100% M1 at the mile according to his other thread.

This has me wondering the same thing. Hightechcorvette logged my old car with the MPH/G force/acceleration tool that also measure IAT's. Wasn't standard HP tuners. My meth/iat setup was like yours. At the end of the 1/2, I was seeing crazy IAT's in the 180+ range. GotJuice, in the picture he posted, has his meth setup much closer to the IAT.

Milan

If you are running 100% meth you will definitely need to spray more to keep your IATs down.

Is E85 an option for you?

Neil B

That is a ton of meth. Like 80 gal/hr worth. You're getting that out of 2 M15's with lots of pump pressure? My system is definitely not putting out anywhere near that kind of volume.

Neil B

I could try twin 625's. After that, I'd need to add a 3rd nozzle or switch to a different manufacturer. With a 625 and 375 ml/min nozzles my IATS climb like I've got no meth at all.

I used both 100% M1 as well as boost juice at the mile. No significant change in IATs using the same nozzles on straight M1.

stevieturbo

You also need to factor in boost pressure acting against the pump, as well as the fact that when you start flowing large amounts, a lot of the pumps simply cannot keep up, and pressure will drop.

Your 200psi with a small jet into atmospheric pressure could easily drop to 150psi when flowing larger amounts, 150-20psi boost leaves only 130psi to flow liquid.

Obviously you'd need to test each install for actual numbers, but those are not unrealistic ones. You cant just assume a 200psi pump will always maintain 200psi.