MVP'S ZO6

as many of you know injector dynamics has left their mark and arguably changed how the motorsports industry sees and understands electronic fuel injection. I recently listen to a pod cast from doitforaliving.net with Reid Lunde where he interviewed Paul Yaw of Injector Dynamics. They pretty much discussed how ID came to be and what it takes to succeed in the motorsports industry. However one of the things that caught my interest is what Paul said they have in store for the future at ID. Let me take a step back. For those who have talked to Paul or have heard one of his seminars, you know that Paul is a no nonsense kind of guy. He is always striving for excellence and often times isn't very political when setting the record straight. ;-) Paul mentioned how he's fed up with all these overseas company's slapping a name brand label on Chinese fuel pumps and calling them something they are not. He wants to develop pumps that work. If you know Paul you know he isn't in the business of releasing garbage. He said he's been approached by some of these companies who slap name brand decals on cheap over seas pumps with the offer to put injector dynamics name on said pumps and he essentially told them to "EFF OFF". I for one can not wait to see what he and his team develop.

Just thought I'd share with you guys.

Milan

So they are going to start selling Walbros, scratching the serials numbers off of them and branding them as their own? Haha just kidding....kind of.

Paul is a badass though, very intelligent dude.

Although if we are talking in tank pumps its kinda hard to compete with the 450

4DRUSH

As if ID made their own injectors

JDS99

Yea, but how much HP will they support?

Don't know Paul, and don't mean any disrespect by it, but don't they relabel injectors? Unless i've been wrongfully informed that they actually manufacture injectors.

JDS99

that was where my head went

MVP'S ZO6

Not quite, It's no secret that they use Bosch cores for their injectors but that is the extent of it. I don't mean any disrespect by this but It's apparent that your information came from someone other than the source. However, I understand that from an end user standpoint how a person could say hey they use Bosch cores therefore, Injector Dynamics so that must mean they simply take a Bosch core toss a pretty injector hat on it and put it in an Injector Dynamics labeled box.

So thinking they are the same thing as a Bosch injector couldn't be further from the truth. If you think like that, you might as well say that a factory LS engine is the same as an ERL engine built with a factory block since they use the same cores. Often times (especially here on the interwebz) there are a lot of subjective listeners when they should be listening objectively. I'm guilty of this myself. This thread is not intended to start a debate on whether the other guys are the same as injector dynamics. There's enough information out there online and in various forums that if you take an objective approach at digesting the information, you will see that they are not. I just wanted to pass along the information I heard (Directly from the source, Paul Yaw Himself) on what Injector Dynamics has in-store for the future.

Paul is a very public guy and will talk to and educate anyone who wants to listen. He's highly intelligent!!

jimbos'ss

I've been following Paul for a long time. They not only modify bosch cores, but also test and develop data sets by OS for the injectors. He is extremely thorough in his work. He also works directly with bosch to bring to market products that his customers have identified the need for. I'm sure he won't be manufacturing the pumps in house, but i'll bet they are designed and manufactured to his specifications by either bosch or walbro.

MVP'S ZO6

I'd think any modifications would be an in house thing. He mentioned how they just hired three engineers and have a new facility and nothing is coming out of it yet. Maybe that's his big plan? i don't know for sure. Either way, rest assured that whatever he puts his name on is going to be top of the line stuff.

they're also coming out with ID 1800 injectors I think...

schpenxel

They are working with a new brushless pump from what I understand. They should be extremely nice, flow more while using less current. DSteck knows more.

BLOWNBLUEZ06

Listened to the same podcast because MVP shared it with me. It's a good interview.

What inspired Paul Yaw to do what he was doing is: Basically when he was tuning cars, he noticed some strange inconsistencies in the way the car ran as voltage would change. He was able to isolate the other fuel modifier tables to eliminate them from being the problem and then isolated the trouble to the injectors. He began playing with the injectors and thought about the way the injectors were tested, wide open. Not being the way they were used, he decided to come up with a way to dynamically test them. He would change input voltage and vary pulsewidth to come up with accurate dead times and flow based on the input voltage. After mapping and graphing all of this, he was amazed at the flow variations. Properly characterizing the injectors helped stabilize the calibrations on the cars. It really is an important thing. Can you tune a car without all that data? Absolutely. It just won't be as right as it can be. It's just not possible.

As far as the fuel pumps are concerned. They will absolutely not be relabeled Chinese beer cans. Something I've been complaining about all along is the fuel pump industry and resellers aren't publishing good flow data on their pumps.
Good for 1400hp? give me a break. That means nothing.
Fuel Labs came out with a great idea with their PWM pumps, but things didn't work out for other reasons. PWM pumps, done properly are the future.
I'm confident their pumps will be great in many ways.

schpenxel

Link to that podcast?

nullpointer

http://doitforaliving.net/podcast/

schpenxel

https://www.facebook.com/Downshiftph...29700993720114

stevieturbo

I'll stick with Bosch.

They work, they perform. Job done.

schpenxel

Thanks, going to have to listen to that one

MVP'S ZO6

thanks for this post!! On that note, of the part of your post that I put in bold, it was your comments in your fuel system thread that influenced me starting this thread.

DSteck

It's no surprise that the 725, 850, 1000, and 2000 start life as a standard injector available to everyone which is then modified. ID uses a SAE-based data characterization process to generate all the dynamic data needed to properly match injectors (and also needed to properly be able to tune them and make them predictable... like GM's Short Pulse Adder and Voltage Offset tables). The 2000 actually has an internal modification which I'm not going to share because I don't think it's my place to say what it is.

The 1300 is built from a clean slate explicitly for ID. Nobody out there is able to get their hands on that piece, and it is made from scratch to specifications by ID (and manufactured by Bosch through a technical partnership). Again, ID generates the characterization data.

Each injector gets tested and characterized. Injectors are then split into batches based on their deviation from a core data set. Injectors outside of a given deviation allowance are not sold. Injectors at the core data set are put together. Injectors above the core data set are put together. Injectors below the core data set are put together. This is why each injector has a unique serial number... So that later, they can go back and say "Ok, he needs a replacement, and it is from this data set" so that you can get a proper replacement.

Bosch sells cores to lots of people. Bosch does NOT do any data generation for them though... That's left up to end users who flow them ***** out and think they are done.

ID will not manufacturer the pump itself. This again is manufactured by Bosch Motorsports. It is the 600-7 pump, which flows 600lph at 7 bar. It is a three phase brushless pump which requires a dedicated controller to operate (you can't just hook up power and ground). The pump controller is engineered and made by ID, and allows the pump to maintain a specific volumetric flow rate regardless of system voltage or operating pressure. It's also programmable. This single pump is smaller than a soda can, and flows more than twice what a Walbro 267 does. The 600-7 will definitely not be a relabeled Chinese paperweight.

JDS99

Good info.

I'll have to check out the podcast as well this evening.

600lph at 7bar is some wicked flow

schpenxel

Indeed.

Podcast was pretty good.. def. not for kids to listen to though

MVP'S ZO6

Jon it's definitely worth a listen. If you have kids though I wouldn't listen to it around them. Paul likes to curse. :-)