Huge oil consumption issues with new FI LS1 383 stroker
03-30-2016, 10:25 AM
#1
Huge oil consumption issues with new FI LS1 383 stroker
Guys,
On this build :
- Every parts of the short block are brand new
- All forged
- Approx 18psi on centrifugal compressor
- 11.1:1 compression but using E85
- Special cam in 230/240 range
I have some issues with in my opinion extreme oil consumption in a FI LS1 block based 383 stroker with stock bore and 4" stroke.
It got all the goodies and has forged Wiseco pistons with +10psi tension oil rings and has been broken in well.
Still, it consumes about 2 quart per 300 miles of expensive Castrol 300V 20W60 so does not run any thin soup or so, even with -2000rpm 6th gear cruise (3.42 rear)
Have test crank pressure and have from 148 to 155 psi
Because leaky oil pan ... Have change the dipstick o-ring... No more oil leak
Because thinking about damaged valve guide (the only stock stuff on this build with 60.000 miles and somes 7400rpm during drag race) during the porting... Have swap my ported 853 with for some stock 853 with new valve seals and head gaskets... No change
Because thinking massive blowby... Have vented the PCV system with a double catch can (one on the clean side, the other on the dirty side), i can not see any mistakes in plumbing of the venting system either.
Each WOT produce black smoke quite as a boosted duramax...
Huge performance until spark plug are wet... and after... MIL (P0300 : random misfires)
Have inspect block bore and top pistons when i was swap the head, they were look fine
Some mistakes :
- Use a three-leg hone to geglazing
- Cut the expander perhaps too far (tips ar not butted)
- Choice large tension oil rings (like nitrous race only, because expecting to use nitrous if needed to hit a magic 1/4m time)
If i refer to wiseco manual...
Application Top Ring 2nd Ring
High-Performance Street/Strip .0045” .0055”
Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous .0050” .0055”
Late Model Stock .0050” .0055”
Circle Track/Drag Race .0055” .0060”
Blown Race Only .0065” .0070”
Nitrous Race Only .0070” .0075”
With 18psi and good cam, i not consider it s a "Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous", so i use the last line
Because Oily spark plug...
hydro-plane of the ring due to bad cylinder wall finish ?
oiling dur to large cut of the expander ring ? (they speak about excactly oposite situation, but with same symptom)
too large tention oil ring ?
Other ?
Need your input, all i can check before opening this engine :-(
On this build :
- Every parts of the short block are brand new
- All forged
- Approx 18psi on centrifugal compressor
- 11.1:1 compression but using E85
- Special cam in 230/240 range
I have some issues with in my opinion extreme oil consumption in a FI LS1 block based 383 stroker with stock bore and 4" stroke.
It got all the goodies and has forged Wiseco pistons with +10psi tension oil rings and has been broken in well.
Still, it consumes about 2 quart per 300 miles of expensive Castrol 300V 20W60 so does not run any thin soup or so, even with -2000rpm 6th gear cruise (3.42 rear)
Have test crank pressure and have from 148 to 155 psi
Because leaky oil pan ... Have change the dipstick o-ring... No more oil leak
Because thinking about damaged valve guide (the only stock stuff on this build with 60.000 miles and somes 7400rpm during drag race) during the porting... Have swap my ported 853 with for some stock 853 with new valve seals and head gaskets... No change
Because thinking massive blowby... Have vented the PCV system with a double catch can (one on the clean side, the other on the dirty side), i can not see any mistakes in plumbing of the venting system either.
Each WOT produce black smoke quite as a boosted duramax...
Huge performance until spark plug are wet... and after... MIL (P0300 : random misfires)
Have inspect block bore and top pistons when i was swap the head, they were look fine
Some mistakes :
- Use a three-leg hone to geglazing
- Cut the expander perhaps too far (tips ar not butted)
- Choice large tension oil rings (like nitrous race only, because expecting to use nitrous if needed to hit a magic 1/4m time)
If i refer to wiseco manual...
Application Top Ring 2nd Ring
High-Performance Street/Strip .0045” .0055”
Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous .0050” .0055”
Late Model Stock .0050” .0055”
Circle Track/Drag Race .0055” .0060”
Blown Race Only .0065” .0070”
Nitrous Race Only .0070” .0075”
With 18psi and good cam, i not consider it s a "Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous", so i use the last line
Because Oily spark plug...
hydro-plane of the ring due to bad cylinder wall finish ?
oiling dur to large cut of the expander ring ? (they speak about excactly oposite situation, but with same symptom)
too large tention oil ring ?
Other ?
Need your input, all i can check before opening this engine :-(
03-30-2016, 11:29 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Time to tear it down, true up the bores, order new pistons, hone it correctly.. Also look at a Total Seal ring pack, they have 14lb oil rings and that should help control the oil.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
Last edited by ajrothm; 03-30-2016 at 11:30 PM.
03-31-2016, 01:51 AM
#5
Drifting
I don't think you can say "quarts per mile" at this point. It's definitely appropriate to say "miles per quart" in this situation. 
Sorry about the humor I know you must be seriously stressed over this.
Sorry about the humor I know you must be seriously stressed over this.
Last edited by reactor2; 03-31-2016 at 01:52 AM.
03-31-2016, 01:58 AM
#6
Drifting
How is the crankcase ventilation? How about the valve guides?
Back in the day, I had a muscle car that consumed the kind of oil you are talking about. It was due to worn valve guides/seals and poor crankcase ventilation.
It was a two bold main junk yard dish piston 350 with camel hump 327 heads. I ran a 200hp shot of NOS through the motor for years, sold the car, and years later the new owner called me and I found out it was still going strong. Crazy. It would run 11s all day long.
Back in the day, I had a muscle car that consumed the kind of oil you are talking about. It was due to worn valve guides/seals and poor crankcase ventilation.
It was a two bold main junk yard dish piston 350 with camel hump 327 heads. I ran a 200hp shot of NOS through the motor for years, sold the car, and years later the new owner called me and I found out it was still going strong. Crazy. It would run 11s all day long.
Last edited by reactor2; 03-31-2016 at 02:00 AM.
03-31-2016, 02:06 AM
#7
Safety Car
A friend had one that used a quart of oil per tank of gas. Oil fouling one plug in particular. Removed the head and had it checked out. Replaced the shortblock and the problem continued. Swapped the head and the problem went away. Apparently there was a hole in a runner that couldn't been seen.
03-31-2016, 02:37 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
A friend had one that used a quart of oil per tank of gas. Oil fouling one plug in particular. Removed the head and had it checked out. Replaced the shortblock and the problem continued. Swapped the head and the problem went away. Apparently there was a hole in a runner that couldn't been seen.
That reminds me.. Make sure they used sealant on the rocker arm bolts that protrude into the intake ports on certain cylinders, you can suck oil in through there as well...
(Although I doubt this is your case since you are using so much oil)..
04-02-2016, 11:13 AM
#11
Time to tear it down, true up the bores, order new pistons, hone it correctly.. Also look at a Total Seal ring pack, they have 14lb oil rings and that should help control the oil.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
Even if they look fine ?
It cannot be just the ring ???
04-02-2016, 11:17 AM
#12
Not streesed any more, just boring (bore...ing, x2 humor note lol)
Now, i bought 20 quarts of expensive oil to use the beast
And... buy another car to visit my family 800miles far away from me (not a vette, and not a gm :-( )
Last edited by Steve@C56; 04-02-2016 at 11:27 AM.
04-02-2016, 11:29 AM
#13
How is the crankcase ventilation? How about the valve guides?
Back in the day, I had a muscle car that consumed the kind of oil you are talking about. It was due to worn valve guides/seals and poor crankcase ventilation.
It was a two bold main junk yard dish piston 350 with camel hump 327 heads. I ran a 200hp shot of NOS through the motor for years, sold the car, and years later the new owner called me and I found out it was still going strong. Crazy. It would run 11s all day long.
Back in the day, I had a muscle car that consumed the kind of oil you are talking about. It was due to worn valve guides/seals and poor crankcase ventilation.
It was a two bold main junk yard dish piston 350 with camel hump 327 heads. I ran a 200hp shot of NOS through the motor for years, sold the car, and years later the new owner called me and I found out it was still going strong. Crazy. It would run 11s all day long.
For the guide, i swapped the heads for stocks one without change
04-02-2016, 11:48 AM
#14
I had use them one year on 100% stock 350hp ls1, without adding any oil
Last edited by Steve@C56; 04-02-2016 at 11:48 AM.
04-02-2016, 04:48 PM
#15
Safety Car
No, the engine needs to be removed, disassembled, and honed with a torque plate to prevent distortion. You can check the bores with the heads off if you have a bore gauge, but your not getting the bottom end apart easily with the engine in place.
04-02-2016, 06:43 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
04-02-2016, 09:23 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Piston to bore clearance needs to be checked...if the piston is too loose in the bore, it will rock back and forth, flutter the rings and cause oil consumption.
The block needs to be honed with a torque plate to true the cylinders up... If the piston to bore clearance comes in at .003-.005" ish, they are good to reuse. Then use a fresh set of rings and set the gaps correctly on the compression rings.
Check your valve guide clearance, valve stem oil seals and rocker arm bolts (for sealant).. If all of this is good, you "should" have minimal oil consumption.
*Note
Your 383 uses a 4" stroke crank, which requires you to have short skirts, they do tend to rock in the bores a little more so you MAY get some oil consumption from that... But shouldn't be much..
Normally, if I using 1/2 qt or less in 2k miles, I don't worry about it.. Especially on stroker motors. Oil consumption oil depends on the usage.. They're gonna use more oil if you're running the crap out of them... (Which I usually do..)
The block needs to be honed with a torque plate to true the cylinders up... If the piston to bore clearance comes in at .003-.005" ish, they are good to reuse. Then use a fresh set of rings and set the gaps correctly on the compression rings.
Check your valve guide clearance, valve stem oil seals and rocker arm bolts (for sealant).. If all of this is good, you "should" have minimal oil consumption.
*Note
Your 383 uses a 4" stroke crank, which requires you to have short skirts, they do tend to rock in the bores a little more so you MAY get some oil consumption from that... But shouldn't be much..
Normally, if I using 1/2 qt or less in 2k miles, I don't worry about it.. Especially on stroker motors. Oil consumption oil depends on the usage.. They're gonna use more oil if you're running the crap out of them... (Which I usually do..)
Last edited by ajrothm; 04-02-2016 at 09:25 PM.
04-04-2016, 03:47 AM
#18
Time to tear it down, true up the bores, order new pistons, hone it correctly.. Also look at a Total Seal ring pack, they have 14lb oil rings and that should help control the oil.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
Basically, you have to start over....sucks but... It is what it is.
A can see a 4" stroke motor use a LITTLE oil from the pistons rocking a bit but.....nothing like what you were seeing.
I just went through a similar rebuild, getting the bores right etc.
I read here (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=623950) : I'm using 5W-20 Mobile 1. 12lb oil rings were too low of tension for me on the street (1 qt / 100mi), but 12-14lb oil rings got me up to 1qt/600mi.
I will send a mail to Total Seal to see what they can say, and the cost
04-04-2016, 04:02 AM
#19
The expander rings as i receive them, the expander seems way too long it would overlap a whole link when put around the bore
..... _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _
..._/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \
. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . _ .. _ . _ . _ .. _ .. _ . _
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . / \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \...
The expander rings as i cut them :
..... _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . . . _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _
..._/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_ . / \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \...
The expander rings as i read i should cut, i have seen this on internet, after the cut, they dont speak about this on the paper notice they send with the ring pack
..... _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _ .. _ . _
..._/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \...
2 - Oily plug.... a lot of them... all i think... i will pull them and show you a pic
Under all condition... perhaps more often when cruising, because when WOT, perhaps the oïl go directly to the exauht (smoke)
One time, the engine was not giving all his power on WOT test...
One time, i just drove something like 50miles on motorway (-2000rmp) and had the 0300 code and the MIL was flashing, and a lot of missfire when i come back home...
A couple of day after, without pull and/or cleaning the spark plug, the car was driving fine...
Next time i use the car, i suspect to not having all the power when a go over 5000rmp, look like oily plugS
Last edited by Steve@C56; 04-04-2016 at 04:23 AM.
04-04-2016, 04:33 AM
#20
Piston to bore clearance needs to be checked...if the piston is too loose in the bore, it will rock back and forth, flutter the rings and cause oil consumption.
The block needs to be honed with a torque plate to true the cylinders up... If the piston to bore clearance comes in at .003-.005" ish, they are good to reuse. Then use a fresh set of rings and set the gaps correctly on the compression rings.
Check your valve guide clearance, valve stem oil seals and rocker arm bolts (for sealant).. If all of this is good, you "should" have minimal oil consumption.
*Note
Your 383 uses a 4" stroke crank, which requires you to have short skirts, they do tend to rock in the bores a little more so you MAY get some oil consumption from that... But shouldn't be much..
Normally, if I using 1/2 qt or less in 2k miles, I don't worry about it.. Especially on stroker motors. Oil consumption oil depends on the usage.. They're gonna use more oil if you're running the crap out of them... (Which I usually do..)
The block needs to be honed with a torque plate to true the cylinders up... If the piston to bore clearance comes in at .003-.005" ish, they are good to reuse. Then use a fresh set of rings and set the gaps correctly on the compression rings.
Check your valve guide clearance, valve stem oil seals and rocker arm bolts (for sealant).. If all of this is good, you "should" have minimal oil consumption.
*Note
Your 383 uses a 4" stroke crank, which requires you to have short skirts, they do tend to rock in the bores a little more so you MAY get some oil consumption from that... But shouldn't be much..
Normally, if I using 1/2 qt or less in 2k miles, I don't worry about it.. Especially on stroker motors. Oil consumption oil depends on the usage.. They're gonna use more oil if you're running the crap out of them... (Which I usually do..)
