Flex fuel on the C5
06-08-2017, 03:17 PM
#21
06-08-2017, 03:32 PM
#22
Supporting Vendor
there is more to it.
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Cordes Performance Racing aka "CPR"
Owner of AZ's premier LSX/LTX motorsports shop
http://cordesperformanceracing.com/
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480-359-5914
Cordes Performance Racing aka "CPR"
Owner of AZ's premier LSX/LTX motorsports shop
http://cordesperformanceracing.com/
www.facebook.com/cordesperformanceracing.com
joe@cordesperformanceracing.com
480-359-5914
06-08-2017, 07:22 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
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The pinout between the early P01 PCM and newer P59 PCM have different terminal assignments for the O2 heater circuit(Or should I say the newer PCM controls the heater ground vs. direct ground on P01). I have no direct experience this is just from some information on LS1tech. I however will be attempting this soon.
Also if you are going from P01 to P59 you will have to slightly trim the PCM connector as well AFAIK. I'm not sure if any have experience needing a pull up resistor on the tach output to allow the factory tach to work like you would on the 98 F-Body when swapping to a P59.
Again this is just information I have seen on Ls1Tech, I'll know more once I find a PCM and tear into this myself.
Also if you are going from P01 to P59 you will have to slightly trim the PCM connector as well AFAIK. I'm not sure if any have experience needing a pull up resistor on the tach output to allow the factory tach to work like you would on the 98 F-Body when swapping to a P59.
Again this is just information I have seen on Ls1Tech, I'll know more once I find a PCM and tear into this myself.
Last edited by wilson34; 06-08-2017 at 07:23 PM.
06-08-2017, 07:53 PM
#25
The pinout between the early P01 PCM and newer P59 PCM have different terminal assignments for the O2 heater circuit(Or should I say the newer PCM controls the heater ground vs. direct ground on P01). I have no direct experience this is just from some information on LS1tech. I however will be attempting this soon.
Also if you are going from P01 to P59 you will have to slightly trim the PCM connector as well AFAIK. I'm not sure if any have experience needing a pull up resistor on the tach output to allow the factory tach to work like you would on the 98 F-Body when swapping to a P59.
Again this is just information I have seen on Ls1Tech, I'll know more once I find a PCM and tear into this myself.
Also if you are going from P01 to P59 you will have to slightly trim the PCM connector as well AFAIK. I'm not sure if any have experience needing a pull up resistor on the tach output to allow the factory tach to work like you would on the 98 F-Body when swapping to a P59.
Again this is just information I have seen on Ls1Tech, I'll know more once I find a PCM and tear into this myself.
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the p59.
06-08-2017, 07:56 PM
#26
06-08-2017, 07:59 PM
#27
first of all you need an 04 express van pcm "p59" with any of these serv number and hardware no.
2004: Serv. No. 12586243 with Hwd. No. 12583659
2005-2006: Serv. No. 12589462 with Hwd. No. 12589161
2007: Serv. No. 12602801 with Hwd. No. 12589161
since you arent converting to a cable throttle body (i presume) then all you need to do now is get a tune for your setup and to get the flex fuel sensor and to pin it to the computer. If you are going to use the oil pressure switch and oxygen sensors then you need to do the following :
"If you have a RED/BLUE connector PCM, you CAN use this pcm on a 03+ harness (GREEN/BLUE connector) with cable throttle, with a few simple modifications. The only thing that needs changed, other then what was talked about above, is some of the oxygen sensor wiring. On the 2003+ blue/green connector PCM's, the PCM supplies a GROUND for the oxygen sensor heater's, and 12v+ comes from the fuse block. In the 99-02, power and ground is fed directly to the o2 sensor heaters. To make the changes needed to 2003+ blue/green harness, to work with a blue/red computer is this:
REMOVE: BLUE PCM connector pins: 24,27,64,67. These should all be black with white stripes. These were extra ground wires provided to the 03+ pcm so it could control ground to the o2 heaters. The 99-02 pcm does not need these. Just pull the pins out, don't cut anything yet, we need to hook these to a few other wires we pull out of the PCM connectors.
Next we need to remove the wires from the PCM connector that go to the oxygen sensor heater control. There are 4 wires, one for each oxygen sensor. If you are only using front oxygen sensors in you conversion, omit anything to do with Sensor 2.
Bank 1 Sensor 1 - BLACK/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 72
Bank 1 Sensor 2 - BROWN - GREEN connector pin 52 - after CAT o2 sensor
Bank 2 Sensor 1 - LT GREEN - GREEN connector pin 74
Bank 2 Sensor 2 - RED/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 53 - after CAT o2 sensor
Now, you should have 4 ground wires, and 2 (or 4) oxygen sensor heater control wires pulled from the PCM connectors.
You need to locate the 4 tan oxygen sensor low reference wires going into the BLUE pcm connector. If just using front o2 sensors, its BLUE pins 26 and 29. If also using rear o2 sensors, add pins 25 and 28. These wires will always be TAN and may have a white stripe. The easiest way I can think of to splice into these, is pull the pin out (REMEMBER WHERE IT GOES BACK) remove some insulation with a knife, solider on a wire, and slip some heat shrink up and past the terminal and shrink the heat shrink down over the splice. Then reinstall the pin in its original location. Leave about 12" of wire loose for each wire you splice into. Do this for all the o2 sensors you will be using.
So at this point. You should have 4 black/white ground wires loose. 2 to 4 oxygen sensor heater control wires loose, and 2 to 4 wires going to each of the TAN wires. All of these wires need hooked together in a big splice pack. First get some larger heat shrink, 1/4 or 5/16 should work. Put about 4 inch long piece of heat shrink over all 4 ground wires. Next strip off about 1-2 inches of insulation off all your wires. Start hooking them together end to end, you should be able to solider all these together, and slip the heat shrink over when done.
The last step, is to make the connectors fit inside the PCM. This will require cutting the rib off the GREEN plastic terminal cover, so it will fit in the RED pcm socket.
You will need to use oxygen sensors for a 2002 chevy truck, 5.3L, will be a white plastic connector, and will plug right into the 03+ harness without changing plugs."
You will need a FF sensor and this pigtail connector
you will need to plumb this sensor in the return line to prevent any restriction as its a 3/8" diameter orifice.
once plumbed, the wiring will need to be plugged in the sensor and the other end will be cut off.
wire A will go in pin 56 in the BLUE connector in your computer.
wire B (the middle one) goes to a switched power source.
Wire c goes to just any ground.
The rest you will need your tuner to activate the sensor and populate the flex fuel tables. After you have done this, your tuner should be able to work out the kinks and all that good stuff, you should have flex fuel capability, 3 bar, and fueling and timing on the fly.
2004: Serv. No. 12586243 with Hwd. No. 12583659
2005-2006: Serv. No. 12589462 with Hwd. No. 12589161
2007: Serv. No. 12602801 with Hwd. No. 12589161
since you arent converting to a cable throttle body (i presume) then all you need to do now is get a tune for your setup and to get the flex fuel sensor and to pin it to the computer. If you are going to use the oil pressure switch and oxygen sensors then you need to do the following :
"If you have a RED/BLUE connector PCM, you CAN use this pcm on a 03+ harness (GREEN/BLUE connector) with cable throttle, with a few simple modifications. The only thing that needs changed, other then what was talked about above, is some of the oxygen sensor wiring. On the 2003+ blue/green connector PCM's, the PCM supplies a GROUND for the oxygen sensor heater's, and 12v+ comes from the fuse block. In the 99-02, power and ground is fed directly to the o2 sensor heaters. To make the changes needed to 2003+ blue/green harness, to work with a blue/red computer is this:
REMOVE: BLUE PCM connector pins: 24,27,64,67. These should all be black with white stripes. These were extra ground wires provided to the 03+ pcm so it could control ground to the o2 heaters. The 99-02 pcm does not need these. Just pull the pins out, don't cut anything yet, we need to hook these to a few other wires we pull out of the PCM connectors.
Next we need to remove the wires from the PCM connector that go to the oxygen sensor heater control. There are 4 wires, one for each oxygen sensor. If you are only using front oxygen sensors in you conversion, omit anything to do with Sensor 2.
Bank 1 Sensor 1 - BLACK/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 72
Bank 1 Sensor 2 - BROWN - GREEN connector pin 52 - after CAT o2 sensor
Bank 2 Sensor 1 - LT GREEN - GREEN connector pin 74
Bank 2 Sensor 2 - RED/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 53 - after CAT o2 sensor
Now, you should have 4 ground wires, and 2 (or 4) oxygen sensor heater control wires pulled from the PCM connectors.
You need to locate the 4 tan oxygen sensor low reference wires going into the BLUE pcm connector. If just using front o2 sensors, its BLUE pins 26 and 29. If also using rear o2 sensors, add pins 25 and 28. These wires will always be TAN and may have a white stripe. The easiest way I can think of to splice into these, is pull the pin out (REMEMBER WHERE IT GOES BACK) remove some insulation with a knife, solider on a wire, and slip some heat shrink up and past the terminal and shrink the heat shrink down over the splice. Then reinstall the pin in its original location. Leave about 12" of wire loose for each wire you splice into. Do this for all the o2 sensors you will be using.
So at this point. You should have 4 black/white ground wires loose. 2 to 4 oxygen sensor heater control wires loose, and 2 to 4 wires going to each of the TAN wires. All of these wires need hooked together in a big splice pack. First get some larger heat shrink, 1/4 or 5/16 should work. Put about 4 inch long piece of heat shrink over all 4 ground wires. Next strip off about 1-2 inches of insulation off all your wires. Start hooking them together end to end, you should be able to solider all these together, and slip the heat shrink over when done.
The last step, is to make the connectors fit inside the PCM. This will require cutting the rib off the GREEN plastic terminal cover, so it will fit in the RED pcm socket.
You will need to use oxygen sensors for a 2002 chevy truck, 5.3L, will be a white plastic connector, and will plug right into the 03+ harness without changing plugs."
You will need a FF sensor and this pigtail connector
you will need to plumb this sensor in the return line to prevent any restriction as its a 3/8" diameter orifice.
once plumbed, the wiring will need to be plugged in the sensor and the other end will be cut off.
wire A will go in pin 56 in the BLUE connector in your computer.
wire B (the middle one) goes to a switched power source.
Wire c goes to just any ground.
The rest you will need your tuner to activate the sensor and populate the flex fuel tables. After you have done this, your tuner should be able to work out the kinks and all that good stuff, you should have flex fuel capability, 3 bar, and fueling and timing on the fly.
06-08-2017, 08:59 PM
#28
first of all you need an 04 express van pcm "p59" with any of these serv number and hardware no.
2004: Serv. No. 12586243 with Hwd. No. 12583659
2005-2006: Serv. No. 12589462 with Hwd. No. 12589161
2007: Serv. No. 12602801 with Hwd. No. 12589161
since you arent converting to a cable throttle body (i presume) then all you need to do now is get a tune for your setup and to get the flex fuel sensor and to pin it to the computer. If you are going to use the oil pressure switch and oxygen sensors then you need to do the following :
"If you have a RED/BLUE connector PCM, you CAN use this pcm on a 03+ harness (GREEN/BLUE connector) with cable throttle, with a few simple modifications. The only thing that needs changed, other then what was talked about above, is some of the oxygen sensor wiring. On the 2003+ blue/green connector PCM's, the PCM supplies a GROUND for the oxygen sensor heater's, and 12v+ comes from the fuse block. In the 99-02, power and ground is fed directly to the o2 sensor heaters. To make the changes needed to 2003+ blue/green harness, to work with a blue/red computer is this:
REMOVE: BLUE PCM connector pins: 24,27,64,67. These should all be black with white stripes. These were extra ground wires provided to the 03+ pcm so it could control ground to the o2 heaters. The 99-02 pcm does not need these. Just pull the pins out, don't cut anything yet, we need to hook these to a few other wires we pull out of the PCM connectors.
Next we need to remove the wires from the PCM connector that go to the oxygen sensor heater control. There are 4 wires, one for each oxygen sensor. If you are only using front oxygen sensors in you conversion, omit anything to do with Sensor 2.
Bank 1 Sensor 1 - BLACK/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 72
Bank 1 Sensor 2 - BROWN - GREEN connector pin 52 - after CAT o2 sensor
Bank 2 Sensor 1 - LT GREEN - GREEN connector pin 74
Bank 2 Sensor 2 - RED/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 53 - after CAT o2 sensor
Now, you should have 4 ground wires, and 2 (or 4) oxygen sensor heater control wires pulled from the PCM connectors.
You need to locate the 4 tan oxygen sensor low reference wires going into the BLUE pcm connector. If just using front o2 sensors, its BLUE pins 26 and 29. If also using rear o2 sensors, add pins 25 and 28. These wires will always be TAN and may have a white stripe. The easiest way I can think of to splice into these, is pull the pin out (REMEMBER WHERE IT GOES BACK) remove some insulation with a knife, solider on a wire, and slip some heat shrink up and past the terminal and shrink the heat shrink down over the splice. Then reinstall the pin in its original location. Leave about 12" of wire loose for each wire you splice into. Do this for all the o2 sensors you will be using.
So at this point. You should have 4 black/white ground wires loose. 2 to 4 oxygen sensor heater control wires loose, and 2 to 4 wires going to each of the TAN wires. All of these wires need hooked together in a big splice pack. First get some larger heat shrink, 1/4 or 5/16 should work. Put about 4 inch long piece of heat shrink over all 4 ground wires. Next strip off about 1-2 inches of insulation off all your wires. Start hooking them together end to end, you should be able to solider all these together, and slip the heat shrink over when done.
The last step, is to make the connectors fit inside the PCM. This will require cutting the rib off the GREEN plastic terminal cover, so it will fit in the RED pcm socket.
You will need to use oxygen sensors for a 2002 chevy truck, 5.3L, will be a white plastic connector, and will plug right into the 03+ harness without changing plugs."
You will need a FF sensor and this pigtail connector
you will need to plumb this sensor in the return line to prevent any restriction as its a 3/8" diameter orifice.
once plumbed, the wiring will need to be plugged in the sensor and the other end will be cut off.
wire A will go in pin 56 in the BLUE connector in your computer.
wire B (the middle one) goes to a switched power source.
Wire c goes to just any ground.
The rest you will need your tuner to activate the sensor and populate the flex fuel tables. After you have done this, your tuner should be able to work out the kinks and all that good stuff, you should have flex fuel capability, 3 bar, and fueling and timing on the fly.
2004: Serv. No. 12586243 with Hwd. No. 12583659
2005-2006: Serv. No. 12589462 with Hwd. No. 12589161
2007: Serv. No. 12602801 with Hwd. No. 12589161
since you arent converting to a cable throttle body (i presume) then all you need to do now is get a tune for your setup and to get the flex fuel sensor and to pin it to the computer. If you are going to use the oil pressure switch and oxygen sensors then you need to do the following :
"If you have a RED/BLUE connector PCM, you CAN use this pcm on a 03+ harness (GREEN/BLUE connector) with cable throttle, with a few simple modifications. The only thing that needs changed, other then what was talked about above, is some of the oxygen sensor wiring. On the 2003+ blue/green connector PCM's, the PCM supplies a GROUND for the oxygen sensor heater's, and 12v+ comes from the fuse block. In the 99-02, power and ground is fed directly to the o2 sensor heaters. To make the changes needed to 2003+ blue/green harness, to work with a blue/red computer is this:
REMOVE: BLUE PCM connector pins: 24,27,64,67. These should all be black with white stripes. These were extra ground wires provided to the 03+ pcm so it could control ground to the o2 heaters. The 99-02 pcm does not need these. Just pull the pins out, don't cut anything yet, we need to hook these to a few other wires we pull out of the PCM connectors.
Next we need to remove the wires from the PCM connector that go to the oxygen sensor heater control. There are 4 wires, one for each oxygen sensor. If you are only using front oxygen sensors in you conversion, omit anything to do with Sensor 2.
Bank 1 Sensor 1 - BLACK/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 72
Bank 1 Sensor 2 - BROWN - GREEN connector pin 52 - after CAT o2 sensor
Bank 2 Sensor 1 - LT GREEN - GREEN connector pin 74
Bank 2 Sensor 2 - RED/WHITE - GREEN connector pin 53 - after CAT o2 sensor
Now, you should have 4 ground wires, and 2 (or 4) oxygen sensor heater control wires pulled from the PCM connectors.
You need to locate the 4 tan oxygen sensor low reference wires going into the BLUE pcm connector. If just using front o2 sensors, its BLUE pins 26 and 29. If also using rear o2 sensors, add pins 25 and 28. These wires will always be TAN and may have a white stripe. The easiest way I can think of to splice into these, is pull the pin out (REMEMBER WHERE IT GOES BACK) remove some insulation with a knife, solider on a wire, and slip some heat shrink up and past the terminal and shrink the heat shrink down over the splice. Then reinstall the pin in its original location. Leave about 12" of wire loose for each wire you splice into. Do this for all the o2 sensors you will be using.
So at this point. You should have 4 black/white ground wires loose. 2 to 4 oxygen sensor heater control wires loose, and 2 to 4 wires going to each of the TAN wires. All of these wires need hooked together in a big splice pack. First get some larger heat shrink, 1/4 or 5/16 should work. Put about 4 inch long piece of heat shrink over all 4 ground wires. Next strip off about 1-2 inches of insulation off all your wires. Start hooking them together end to end, you should be able to solider all these together, and slip the heat shrink over when done.
The last step, is to make the connectors fit inside the PCM. This will require cutting the rib off the GREEN plastic terminal cover, so it will fit in the RED pcm socket.
You will need to use oxygen sensors for a 2002 chevy truck, 5.3L, will be a white plastic connector, and will plug right into the 03+ harness without changing plugs."
You will need a FF sensor and this pigtail connector
you will need to plumb this sensor in the return line to prevent any restriction as its a 3/8" diameter orifice.
once plumbed, the wiring will need to be plugged in the sensor and the other end will be cut off.
wire A will go in pin 56 in the BLUE connector in your computer.
wire B (the middle one) goes to a switched power source.
Wire c goes to just any ground.
The rest you will need your tuner to activate the sensor and populate the flex fuel tables. After you have done this, your tuner should be able to work out the kinks and all that good stuff, you should have flex fuel capability, 3 bar, and fueling and timing on the fly.
Why switch to red/blue if you have the blue/green?Ist the blue/green pinned for the p59?
Why use the express van pcm and not a 04 c5 pcm? Cost?
06-11-2017, 01:14 PM
#29
Drifting
His business is performing the work on cars. He has taken the time figure something out and how to make it work. He has avoided the question because he is not just going to give away his hard work for everyone else to know. I don't blame him either.
06-28-2017, 11:05 PM
#30
Way to add value to the conversation.
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NSFW (12-26-2019)
06-29-2017, 03:32 AM
#31
I have a 2004, flex fuel sensor is plumbed and wired in, but my tuner and I had issues with it affecting the drive by wire TB. Anyone else had this issue?
We were short on dyno time, so we put flex fuel on the back burner for awhile. I'd just take my car to CPR if I wasn't 1500 miles away
We were short on dyno time, so we put flex fuel on the back burner for awhile. I'd just take my car to CPR if I wasn't 1500 miles away
06-29-2017, 08:29 AM
#32
I have a 2004, flex fuel sensor is plumbed and wired in, but my tuner and I had issues with it affecting the drive by wire TB. Anyone else had this issue?
We were short on dyno time, so we put flex fuel on the back burner for awhile. I'd just take my car to CPR if I wasn't 1500 miles away
We were short on dyno time, so we put flex fuel on the back burner for awhile. I'd just take my car to CPR if I wasn't 1500 miles away
06-30-2017, 01:21 PM
#34
06-30-2017, 02:09 PM
#35
06-30-2017, 02:15 PM
#36
I might call vengeance and see what they say since they have done it too. Hoping I can send them something to modify. Or maybe someone will be nice and share the info.
06-30-2017, 02:32 PM
#37
The tune takes care of everything based on ethanol content. Flex fuel sensors work just fine. Just make sure you get the good brands (continental) and not the China copies.
I might call vengeance and see what they say since they have done it too. Hoping I can send them something to modify. Or maybe someone will be nice and share the info.
I might call vengeance and see what they say since they have done it too. Hoping I can send them something to modify. Or maybe someone will be nice and share the info.
In my experience flex fuel sensors are not accurate at all. Here is a scenario for you:
If you have 1 gallon of pump gas, E10, and you pour 1 gallon of water in there. So now you have 50% water, 50% E10. What is the ethanol content sensor going to read?
06-30-2017, 02:57 PM
#39
I'd use the halltech since you gain so many features plus you already have it.
You can just run a non flex fuel setup but have a warning sensor letting you know what the ethanol % is. If it gets too off just shut down and fill it up with higher ethanol content. I know someone that ran a 1000+ rwhp gt500 like that fine.
You can just run a non flex fuel setup but have a warning sensor letting you know what the ethanol % is. If it gets too off just shut down and fill it up with higher ethanol content. I know someone that ran a 1000+ rwhp gt500 like that fine.
06-30-2017, 03:01 PM
#40
I'd use the halltech since you gain so many features plus you already have it.
You can just run a non flex fuel setup but have a warning sensor letting you know what the ethanol % is. If it gets too off just shut down and fill it up with higher ethanol content. I know someone that ran a 1000+ rwhp gt500 like that fine.
You can just run a non flex fuel setup but have a warning sensor letting you know what the ethanol % is. If it gets too off just shut down and fill it up with higher ethanol content. I know someone that ran a 1000+ rwhp gt500 like that fine.