Stock fuel pump or Racetronix with N20?
05-08-2017, 03:41 PM
#21
Instructor
I'm in the process of building up my '02Z. Currently waiting for a custom cam to be ground and will be sending my stock heads out for porting by AI. Car should make 450+whp.
I've been considering adding nitrous for minimal use. I like the Nitrous Outlet wet plate system for my 92mm FAST and their accessory goodies. My original thought was a 100 shot max but after researching it appears a 150 shot is still rather safe - at least on the unmodified stock engine it is. I've read around this forum and the internet machine that the stock fuel pump can handle ~600whp; plenty of confirmed dyno pulls in excess of 550whp anyways. Is this reliable?
If I stuck with a 100 shot, it seems like the stock pump would be fine. If I attempt 150, the stock pump will be at the limit and just not safe. The Racetronix RXP255J kit says 600whp on early rail regulated fuel systems and an unspecified amount less on the returnless system in my car.
I haven't seen a distinct reason to choose the Racetronix pump over the stock one if it supports roughly the same power level. By design, the Racetronix is most likely more durable near it's limit, but for how infrequently I would use the nitrous, it may be unnecessary. That said, I see they also offer an RXP340J kit that would be overkill but leave no questions.
What say you? What's worked, what hasn't?
Oh, and just to sneak in a
, NGK BR7EF seems to be the plug of choice. How much of an N/A hit should I expect on that plug?
Thanks
I've been considering adding nitrous for minimal use. I like the Nitrous Outlet wet plate system for my 92mm FAST and their accessory goodies. My original thought was a 100 shot max but after researching it appears a 150 shot is still rather safe - at least on the unmodified stock engine it is. I've read around this forum and the internet machine that the stock fuel pump can handle ~600whp; plenty of confirmed dyno pulls in excess of 550whp anyways. Is this reliable?
If I stuck with a 100 shot, it seems like the stock pump would be fine. If I attempt 150, the stock pump will be at the limit and just not safe. The Racetronix RXP255J kit says 600whp on early rail regulated fuel systems and an unspecified amount less on the returnless system in my car.
I haven't seen a distinct reason to choose the Racetronix pump over the stock one if it supports roughly the same power level. By design, the Racetronix is most likely more durable near it's limit, but for how infrequently I would use the nitrous, it may be unnecessary. That said, I see they also offer an RXP340J kit that would be overkill but leave no questions.
What say you? What's worked, what hasn't?
Oh, and just to sneak in a
, NGK BR7EF seems to be the plug of choice. How much of an N/A hit should I expect on that plug?Thanks
05-08-2017, 04:09 PM
#22
Racer
Thread Starter
I have an 04 base. I did heads and cam with 100 shot. I upgraded to fast white 36lb injectors and a c6 z06 fuel pump module. car made 591whp and 603ft/lb. I ordered the part straight from my GM Dealer (I work in the car business and we own a chevy store so I got it at discount). the whole pump set up ran me under 400 bucks and was 100% plug and play.
05-08-2017, 04:15 PM
#23
Instructor
You are 100% correct. I totally forgot about that. That is why I went C6 Z. but the equivalent for you would be to run Lingenfelter intank fuel pump model. Part #8804. That was what I originally was going to do until I found out it wouldn't work on my 04 cause late 03 and 04's were different like you mentioned. I think it's like $239 and its plug and play. Nice thing about you having an 02 is you shouldn't have to pull the tank like I did
05-08-2017, 05:02 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
You are 100% correct. I totally forgot about that. That is why I went C6 Z. but the equivalent for you would be to run Lingenfelter intank fuel pump model. Part #8804. That was what I originally was going to do until I found out it wouldn't work on my 04 cause late 03 and 04's were different like you mentioned. I think it's like $239 and its plug and play. Nice thing about you having an 02 is you shouldn't have to pull the tank like I did
Last edited by JD White; 05-08-2017 at 05:03 PM.
05-08-2017, 05:18 PM
#25
Instructor
Yeah, that's the standard Walbro 255lph, 225@4bar, same as the Racetronix setup. There are some nice kits out there for big power but it seems the lowest cost would be ECS's stage 1 at $800, which is just mega overkill for me. I'm going to take a stab at the Racetronix and add the BAP if needed.
05-08-2017, 05:33 PM
#26
Racer
Thread Starter
I totally get where your coming from. I was looking at all of that because the C6Z module was on back order through GM. they get pricey and each kit has its ups and downs. luckily I got my hands on what I did or I was just going to go ECS so I only had to do it once. when I swap my driveline in the near future I will most likely upgrade to a big boy fuel system so I don't have to take the drive line out yet again.
05-08-2017, 05:41 PM
#27
Instructor
It's a lot tougher to get to then I thought for sure! I did 448whp/429ft/lb on the motor. I was hoping for more but as my tuner said I could make more power on the dyno with a different cam but mine comes in nice and early. I need to it perform at the track more then I need it to perform on the dyno so he made a good point haha. Mine has the stock LS6 manifold and throttle body as well. I am pretty much maxed on the stock block unless I went boost. after my driveline this winter I will most likely start building a new motor for the car.
05-12-2017, 12:36 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
Mine made 550rwhp on the stock pump, trickflow 30lb injectors, and a nitrous outlet 100hp plate.
In my opinion, get the spray off the stock fuel system. You get to run smaller injectors, a smaller pump, stock rails, etc and the nitrous supplies its own fuel. And that fuel can be E85, race gas, etc for even extra safety. Standalone fuel system I think is the best way to do it.
In my opinion, get the spray off the stock fuel system. You get to run smaller injectors, a smaller pump, stock rails, etc and the nitrous supplies its own fuel. And that fuel can be E85, race gas, etc for even extra safety. Standalone fuel system I think is the best way to do it.
05-12-2017, 01:14 PM
#29
Racer
Thread Starter
Mine made 550rwhp on the stock pump, trickflow 30lb injectors, and a nitrous outlet 100hp plate.
In my opinion, get the spray off the stock fuel system. You get to run smaller injectors, a smaller pump, stock rails, etc and the nitrous supplies its own fuel. And that fuel can be E85, race gas, etc for even extra safety. Standalone fuel system I think is the best way to do it.
In my opinion, get the spray off the stock fuel system. You get to run smaller injectors, a smaller pump, stock rails, etc and the nitrous supplies its own fuel. And that fuel can be E85, race gas, etc for even extra safety. Standalone fuel system I think is the best way to do it.
I'm already running 42lb (@4bar) injectors in anticipation of the modifications.
I ultimately decided on asking Ed Curtis for a custom cam and the process is underway.
How are you running 30lb injectors for ~450whp w/out nitrous? Are they rated 30lb at 4bar? If so, those have got to be straining to make that power, even at 100% duty cycle. (30lb)(1.0)/(0.5BSFC) x8cyl = 480bhp or ~430whp. 0.5 BSFC is a somewhat arbitrary number but it gets you close enough to size an injector for a naturally aspirated engine. If at 3bar, then it makes sense but I'm guessing they're running near 90% DC.
05-13-2017, 03:50 AM
#30
Drifting
well, by the same logic:
225 l/h = 380 lbs/h = 760 bhp. at 0.55 bsfc its 690 bhp.
my car: 8 x 60 lbs/h x 1.15 x 100% = 550 lbs/h. 550/0.55 bsfc = 1000 bhp.
these calculation not always work out. no way my ls1 at 15 psi is making that kind power.
225 l/h = 380 lbs/h = 760 bhp. at 0.55 bsfc its 690 bhp.
my car: 8 x 60 lbs/h x 1.15 x 100% = 550 lbs/h. 550/0.55 bsfc = 1000 bhp.
these calculation not always work out. no way my ls1 at 15 psi is making that kind power.
Last edited by romandian; 05-13-2017 at 03:51 AM.
05-13-2017, 08:15 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
I ultimately decided on asking Ed Curtis for a custom cam and the process is underway.
How are you running 30lb injectors for ~450whp w/out nitrous? Are they rated 30lb at 4bar? If so, those have got to be straining to make that power, even at 100% duty cycle. (30lb)(1.0)/(0.5BSFC) x8cyl = 480bhp or ~430whp. 0.5 BSFC is a somewhat arbitrary number but it gets you close enough to size an injector for a naturally aspirated engine. If at 3bar, then it makes sense but I'm guessing they're running near 90% DC.
How are you running 30lb injectors for ~450whp w/out nitrous? Are they rated 30lb at 4bar? If so, those have got to be straining to make that power, even at 100% duty cycle. (30lb)(1.0)/(0.5BSFC) x8cyl = 480bhp or ~430whp. 0.5 BSFC is a somewhat arbitrary number but it gets you close enough to size an injector for a naturally aspirated engine. If at 3bar, then it makes sense but I'm guessing they're running near 90% DC.
Couple things. The trickflow injectors are advertised at 43.5psi (3 bar) for their flow rate, and our cars run 58psi. Second, my car made 420/404 so you have to remember, with a good nitrous kit, you will always pick up more power than the advertised number.
05-13-2017, 10:38 AM
#32
Racer
Thread Starter
Great choice on the cam. I love my FTI cam.
Couple things. The trickflow injectors are advertised at 43.5psi (3 bar) for their flow rate, and our cars run 58psi. Second, my car made 420/404 so you have to remember, with a good nitrous kit, you will always pick up more power than the advertised number.
Couple things. The trickflow injectors are advertised at 43.5psi (3 bar) for their flow rate, and our cars run 58psi. Second, my car made 420/404 so you have to remember, with a good nitrous kit, you will always pick up more power than the advertised number.
Define a good nitrous kit? Awesome04Vette and I have been PMing on the side and his Nitrous Outlet kit went from 448 to 591 on a 150 shot. I imagine there's plenty of deviation above and below the rated shot depending on setup and calibration.
You mentioned in my other post that you were cam only. Would you mind sharing your specs? Just curious, no worries if you don't want to.
Last edited by JD White; 05-13-2017 at 10:48 AM.
05-13-2017, 11:32 AM
#33
Racer
Thread Starter
Are you multiplying by 1.15 for boost referencing 15psi on a rail regulator? If so I think you're saying 60lbs/hr run at 73psi (58+15), which makes the flow rate sqrt(73/58) = 1.1219 (60lbs) = 67.3lbs/hr.
(67.3lbs/hr)(100%DC)/0.55 x8 = 979bhp. That's just the max capacity of the injectors, not what your car is making or what your fuel pump can supply.
05-13-2017, 11:38 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
That's why I asked if they were rated 30lb at 3 bar or 4 bar. At 4 bar they could handle the power at less than 100% DC (even if it was my assumed 450whp).
Define a good nitrous kit? Awesome04Vette and I have been PMing on the side and his Nitrous Outlet kit went from 448 to 591 on a 150 shot. I imagine there's plenty of deviation above and below the rated shot depending on setup and calibration.
You mentioned in my other post that you were cam only. Would you mind sharing your specs? Just curious, no worries if you don't want to.
Define a good nitrous kit? Awesome04Vette and I have been PMing on the side and his Nitrous Outlet kit went from 448 to 591 on a 150 shot. I imagine there's plenty of deviation above and below the rated shot depending on setup and calibration.
You mentioned in my other post that you were cam only. Would you mind sharing your specs? Just curious, no worries if you don't want to.
My combo is:
Vararam b2
Lingenfelter ported TB
Fast 78 (unported)
XS Power 1 3/4 LT's and catless X
Stock Ti exhaust (with bypass mod)
ATI 10% UD dampener
Melling high PRESSURE oil pump
Lunati dual springs
Off the shelf FTI Streetsweeper HT cam
Tick pushrods
LS7 lifters
LS2 timing chain
ARP head bolts
NGK BR6EF plugs
LNC2000 timing retard
I have never gotten to make a motor pass as the only time I went to the track was during a competition and I hurt the 3rd gear synchro, so horrible ET (11.80) but the mph was 130.
Last edited by NosLaser; 05-16-2017 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Did not! Can't prove anything! Nothing to see here...
05-13-2017, 11:48 AM
#36
Racer
Thread Starter
05-13-2017, 12:24 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
05-13-2017, 02:06 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Im at 539/520 on a 100 shot. Stock pump with a BAP. Tuner says thats as far it will go safely. Picked up a NX SAFE system for a great deal. Just haven't had a chance to plum it as yet. I'm bolts ons and cam only.
05-13-2017, 03:12 PM
#39
Racer
Thread Starter
05-13-2017, 03:14 PM
#40
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the reference. I also talked to the guys are RPM trans this past week. They've always been helpful answering questions even outside of my driveline questions I had while building mine up with their parts. Jeremy there has had a couple C5s and agreed with the general consensus on the forum here. Stock system is good for upwards of 600whp but as you said, it's pushing it and not safe.