Steve@C56

Hi,

i'm from Europe, and drag race in France (was FFSA rules, not sure now cause 12s limit for no roll cage car, so i quit french race a long time ago) and in Italy (FIA rules, 11s limited for no roll cage car)

this weekend, i done a 10.438, and they were NOT HAPPY AT ALL

only solution is moving "European Pro ET category", and install roll cage

So, as it's my real street car i use to cross the country without the roof (1400 miles round trip) and use to go to mountain for sking in the winter, could you help me for...

Buy/built the "smallest" roll cage for be accept to run in 10s...
And a system to put it/remove it not in 3 days lol (because i want to be able to put it a couple of day before drag race weekend and remove it the day after)

Please, give me all info about this in the real world for put on my C5

I link the FIA rules : http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&...rY9KfQ688BPTN2

Turpid porpoise

I can't read the rule book but I think the Wolfe Racecraft bolt in 6 point may get you what you need.

If you need more than a 6 point then I don't know that you will find an option that is easily installed/removed.

Steve@C56

it s a good base
i asked to european specialist if this sort of cage is ok or not, i will tell you
thanks

romandian

where are you from? probably french, right? from where?

(i hope you dont mind my asking, i just thought you must be going past the place where i live when going to italy.)

Steve@C56

yes, french XD
i live in nice, french riviera (east south of france)
(no problem about your ask lol)

ysb02

In the US you need a 4 point cage to go down to 10.0, 6 point below that. Usually the door bars are the biggest PITA so if you don't need them I wouldn't do them.

stevieturbo

Speak to whoever runs the track you race at and get from them exactly the rules or cage requirements they need.

Are you actually racing, or just run what ya brung ? The rules for actual competition may more strict.

But do not do anything without consulting the track operators first, because you could end up wasting a lot of effort and money on something you do not need.

Steve@C56

i'm the only one 100% real street (aka, not only "usable", but realy use for cross the country or going skiing with) car who drag race in Italy (and France) under 10.5, and worst... i'm a targa car !!!

i have the rules but complelty lost with it

i was drag racing, but i done 10.438s (realy safe mode) in 11s street (no need of roll bar or cage) specian italian category (11s in italy and 12s in France) at the 2nd pass... and the race director tell the orginator (a friend of mine since 7 years) to STOP going faster than 10.5...

so...................................... ........................................ .............

Here is the FIA rules (extract from appendix j 2017 article 253) :

8.2.1 Safety cage
Multi‐tubular structure installed in the cockpit and fitted close to the bodyshell, the function of which is to reduce the deformation of the bodyshell (chassis) in case of an impact.

8.2.2 Rollbar
Tubular frame forming a hoop with two mounting feet.

8.2.3 Main rollbar (Drawing 253‐1)
Transverse and near‐vertical (maximum angle +/‐10° to the vertical) single piece tubular hoop located across the vehicle just behind the front seats.
The tube axis must be within one single plane.

8.2.4 Front rollbar (Drawing 253‐1)
Similar to main rollbar but its shape follows the windscreen pillars and top screen edge.

8.2.5 Lateral rollbar (Drawing 253‐2)
Near‐longitudinal and near‐vertical single piece tubular hoop located along the right or left side of the vehicle, the front pillar of which follows the windscreen pillar and the rear pillar of which is near‐vertical and located just behind the front seats.
The rear pillar must be straight in side view.

8.2.6 Lateral half‐rollbar (Drawing 253‐3)
Identical to the lateral rollbar but without the rear pillar.

8.2.7 Longitudinal member
Near‐longitudinal single piece tube joining the upper parts of the front and main rollbars.

8.2.8 Transverse member
Near‐transverse single piece tube joining the upper parts of the lateral half‐rollbars or of the lateral rollbars.

8.2.9 Diagonal member
Transverse tube between : One of the top corners of the main rollbar, or one of the ends of the transverse member in the case of a lateral rollbar, and at the lower mounting point on the opposite side of the rollbar.
or The upper end of a backstay and the lower mounting point of the other backstay.

8.2.10 Removable members
Members of a safety cage which must be able to be removed.

8.2.11 Cage reinforcement
Member added to the safety cage to improve its strength.

8.2.12 Mounting foot
Plate welded to the end of a rollbar tube to permit its bolting to the bodyshell/chassis, usually onto a reinforcement plate.
This plate may be welded to the bodyshell/chassis in addition to the bolts.

8.2.13 Reinforcement plate
Metal plate fixed to the bodyshell/chassis under a rollbar mounting foot.

8.2.14 Gusset (Drawing 253‐34)
Reinforcement for a bend or junction made from bent sheet metal with a U shape the thickness of which must not be less than 1.0 mm.
The ends of this gusset (point E) must be situated at a distance from the top of the angle (point S) of between 2 to 4 times the outer diameter of the biggest of the tubes joined.
A cut‐out is permitted at the top of the angle but its radius (R) must be no greater than 1.5 times the outer diameter of the biggest of the tubes joined.
The flat sides of the gusset may have a hole the diameter of which must not be greater than the outer diameter of the biggest of the tubes joined.

8.3 Specifications

8.3.1 Basic structure
The base structure must be made according to one of the following designs :

* Base structure 1 (Drawing 253‐1)
1 main rollbar
1 front rollbar
2 longitudinal members
2 backstays
6 mounting feet

* Base structure 2 (Drawing 253‐2)
2 lateral rollbars
2 transverse members
2 backstays
6 mounting feet

* Base structure 3 (Drawing 253‐3)
1 main rollbar
2 lateral half‐rollbars
1 transverse member
2 backstays
6 mounting feet

The vertical part of the main rollbar must be as close as possible to the inner side panels of the bodyshell and must have only one bend
between its lower part and its upper part.
The pillar of a front rollbar (or the front pillar of a lateral rollbar or of a half‐rollbar) must follow the windscreen pillars as close as possible and have only one bend between its lower part and its upper part.
The following connections must be situated at the roof level :
* Longitudinal members to the front and main rollbars
* Transverse members to the lateral rollbars
* Semi‐lateral rollbar to the main rollbar
There must be no more than 4 removable connections at the roof level.
The backstays must be attached at the roof level and near the top outer bends of the main rollbar, on both sides of the car, possibly by means of dismountable joints.
They must form an angle of at least 30° with the vertical, must run rearwards and be straight and as close as possible to the inner side panels of the bodyshell.

8.3.2 Design
Once the base structure is defined, it must be completed with compulsory members and reinforcements (see Article 253‐8.3.2.1), to which optional members and reinforcements may be added (see Article 253‐8.3.2.2).
Unless explicitly permitted and unless dismountable joints are used in compliance with Article 253‐8.3.2.4, all members and tubular reinforcements must be single pieces.

8.3.2.1 Compulsory members and reinforcements

8.3.2.1.1 Diagonal member

The cage must have two diagonal members on the main rollbar according to Drawing 253‐7.
Members must be straight and may be removable.
The lower end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar no further than 100 mm from the mounting foot (see Drawing 253‐52 for the measurement).
The upper end of the diagonal must join the main rollbar no further than 100 mm from its junction with the backstay.

8.3.2.1.2 Doorbars
Longitudinal members must be fitted on each side of the vehicle according to Drawings 253‐9, 253‐10 and 253‐11.
Drawings may be combined.
One longitudinal member may be added to each of the designs shown in Drawings 253‐9, 253‐10 and 253‐11.
The design must be identical on both sides.
For competitions without co‐driver, members may be fitted on the driver's side only and it is not compulsory for the design to be identical on both sides.
They may be removable.
The side protection must be as high as possible, but its upper attachment point must not be higher than half the height of the
door opening measured from its base.
If these upper attachment points are located in front of or behind the door opening, this height limitation applies to the corresponding intersection of the member and the door opening (side view).
In the case of Drawing 253‐9, it is recommended that the lower attachment points of the members be directly onto the longitudinal member of the bodyshell/chassis and that at least one part of the "X" be a single‐piece.
The connection of the doorbars to the windscreen pillar reinforcement (Drawing 253‐15) is authorised.

8.3.2.1.3 Roof reinforcement
The upper part of the safety cage must be reinforced with members according to one of Drawings 253‐12, 253‐13 and 253‐14.
The members may follow the curve of the roof.
For competitions without co‐drivers, in the case of Drawing 253‐12 only, only one diagonal member may be fitted but its front connection must be on the driver’s side.
The ends of the members must be less than 100 mm from the junction between rollbars and members of the base structure (not applicable to the top of the V formed by reinforcements in Drawings 253‐13 and 253‐14).
Junction of tubes at the top of the V : If the tubes do not join each other, the distance between them must not be more than 100 mm at their connection with the rollbar
or the transverse member.

8.3.2.1.4 Windscreen pillar reinforcement
It must be fitted on each side of the front rollbar if dimension "A" is greater than 200mm (Drawing 253‐15).
It may be bent on condition that it is straight in side view and that the angle of the bend does not exceed 20°.
Its upper end must be less than 100 mm from the junction between the front (lateral) rollbar and the longitudinal (transverse) member.
Its lower end must be less than 100 mm from the (front) mounting foot of front (lateral) rollbar (see Drawing 253‐52 for the measurement).

8.3.2.1.5 Reinforcement of bends and junctions
The junctions between :
* The diagonal members of the main rollbar
* The roof reinforcements (configuration of Drawing 253‐12 only)
* The doorbars (configuration of Drawing 253‐9 only)
* The doorbars and the windscreen pillar reinforcement (Drawing 253‐15) must be reinforced by a minimum of 2 gussets complying with Article 253‐8.2.14.
If the doorbars and the windscreen pillar reinforcement are not situated in the same plane, the reinforcement may be made of fabricated sheet metal, provided it complies with dimensions in Article 253‐8.2.14.

8.3.2.2 Optional members and reinforcements
Unless otherwise stated in Article 253‐8.3.2.1, members and reinforcements shown in Drawings 253‐16 to 253‐21 and 253‐23 to 253‐33 are optional.
They must be welded or installed by means of dismountable joints (see Article 8.3.2.4).
All members and reinforcements mentioned above may be used separately or combined with one another.

8.3.2.2.1 Backstay diagonals (Drawings 253‐20 and 253‐21)
The configuration of Drawing 253‐22 is compulsory if a roof reinforcement complying with Drawing 253‐14 is used.

8.3.2.2.2 Front suspension mounting points (Drawing 253‐25)
The extensions must be connected to the front suspension top mounting points.

8.3.2.2.3 Transverse members (Drawings 253‐26 to 253‐30)

Transverse members fitted on the main rollbar or between the backstays may be used for the safety harness mountings in accordance with Article 253‐6.2 (use of dismountable joints prohibited in this case).
For members shown on Drawings 253‐26 and 253‐27, the angle between the central leg and the vertical must be at least 30°.
The transverse member fitted on the front rollbar may be placed as high as possible but its lower edge must not be higher than the uppermost point of the dashboard.
It must not be positioned below the steering column.

8.3.2.2.4 Reinforcement of bends or junctions (Drawings 253‐31 to 253‐33)

Reinforcements must be made of tubes or bent‐sheet metal with U shape complying with Article 253‐8.2.14.
The thickness of the components forming a reinforcement must not be less than 1.0 mm.
The ends of the tubular reinforcements must not be more than half way down or along the members to which they are attached, except for those of the junction of the front rollbar, which may join the junction of the doorbar /front rollbar.

Steve@C56

and... dont want to discuss too much with FIA technical director since i'm targa... but does he know this ? not sure, and if i can try to use no targa rules, it will be better...or, i use targa rules (they speak about full roll cage if no fixed roof)
for sure the "targa" exist in the FIA rules !?
and, again, i'm the only one modern corvette who run under 10.5 in italy/France

stevieturbo

Trying to understand MSA/FIA rules is a total waste of time, you need to speak to the officials at the track to find out what they want, for your car, for how you use it.
Or the organisers of whatever race series it is you are taking part in.

Trying to read the rule book and interpret it yourself will end up costing you far more than you need...and it could still be wrong.

romandian

how old are you? i used to street race a black trans am in the mountains around nice and won quite a few bets. time goes by fast, it was 30 years ago, i reckon.

Steve@C56

i'm younger lol
i was near Paris 15 years ago
never hear about black trans am racer other than a know now
did you know "road racer" group ?
did you know the famous "ponpon" (who was racing in the last with a 496ci butler on this silver 76 firebird) ?
give a pic, i will probably see one of them this weekend
also did you know mike, who was the Pontiac club of France director ?