Finally found my SBE limit, to sleeve or replace the block is the question
02-02-2018, 03:41 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Finally found my SBE limit, to sleeve or replace the block is the question
Well, my motor finally gave it up and checked out. Piston 5 came apart on a 4th gear pull the other night, not as catastrophically as i figured it would have gone, but it made some epic noises. It definitely mad eit loner than most do at the 675+ wheel mark. I got the motor out of the car tonight and most of it torn down and it looks like the only thing thats really hurt is the piston/bore and a little bit of the combustion chamber.
So now im faced with
1)take the block down to RED for some darton sleeves and some extra CI, throw on the AFR heads i have on the shelf and turn the vortech even harder on a freshly forged bottom end,
2) call thompson and get a forged Ls2/3 shortblock throw the AFRs on that and then get all the extra electrical **** to make the new sensors and stuff work.
Ideally i would like to end up somewhere in the 900-1000 wheel range (I know my V3 wont get me there) but id only like to have to do this once.
Whih would be my smarter choice? I havent heard much of boosted sleeved blocks, i know that a lot of the big CI N/A guys love them though.
So now im faced with
1)take the block down to RED for some darton sleeves and some extra CI, throw on the AFR heads i have on the shelf and turn the vortech even harder on a freshly forged bottom end,
2) call thompson and get a forged Ls2/3 shortblock throw the AFRs on that and then get all the extra electrical **** to make the new sensors and stuff work.
Ideally i would like to end up somewhere in the 900-1000 wheel range (I know my V3 wont get me there) but id only like to have to do this once.
Whih would be my smarter choice? I havent heard much of boosted sleeved blocks, i know that a lot of the big CI N/A guys love them though.
Last edited by ss4luck; 02-02-2018 at 03:55 AM.
02-02-2018, 07:34 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
I'd say option two. The LS2/3 blocks just have so much more room for growth.
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ss4luck (02-02-2018)
02-02-2018, 10:50 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
A sleeved block will have larger bore options than either the LS2 or LS3 blocks. This is how they are squeezing 427s out of aluminum 5.3 blocks.
That being said, picking up a forged LS2 block and throwing your current setup onto it is going to be hands down the easiest and cheapest option, likely with the least amount of turn-around.
02-02-2018, 06:44 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Yeah I figured the LS2/3 route would be the better way to go. I have about 9k to spend for a short/long block and am thinking about just going to a square port setup.
By the end of the year there will be a Huron TT kit on the car so I want to compliment that setup as best I can.
By the end of the year there will be a Huron TT kit on the car so I want to compliment that setup as best I can.
02-03-2018, 05:16 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
I'd always aim for a factory block vs something someone has re-lined.
And for a sub 1k build...factory alloy is perfectly strong.
Even a stock LS9 would be a good shout ( albeit ensuring trigger wheels etc are correct for you. )
And for a sub 1k build...factory alloy is perfectly strong.
Even a stock LS9 would be a good shout ( albeit ensuring trigger wheels etc are correct for you. )
02-03-2018, 06:22 PM
#7
How reliable are aftermarket-sleeved LS blocks?
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
02-03-2018, 06:41 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
How reliable are aftermarket-sleeved LS blocks?
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
Been there done that too. But then many proclaim they're wonderful and will work.
I've yet to be convinced hence preference is a factory block with factory liners.
Some of the re-linered stuff must work somewhere though...shouldnt it ?
It's a hell of a **** up to find out yours doesnt though
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Kingtal0n (02-14-2018)
02-03-2018, 06:54 PM
#9
Former Vendor
How reliable are aftermarket-sleeved LS blocks?
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
In the Subaru world they fell out of favor, partly due to issues with sleeves dropping. But I have no idea whether that's a sleeve problem or an H4 problem. (And also, to be fair, closed-deck mods gained in popularity for other reasons.)
In my opinion and based on my experience if it’s done right they’re excellent.
New block vs used Core, dictates slightly different (but very critical) process that’s all I’ll say in public about that. :-)
Last edited by The Race Engine Shop; 02-03-2018 at 06:59 PM.
02-03-2018, 07:08 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Problem is...the shops doing liners will all say theirs work. Doesnt matter whether it's true or not.
Everyone knows for a fact factory blocks work.
Everyone knows for a fact factory blocks work.
02-03-2018, 08:17 PM
#11
Former Vendor
I do agree that if your factory sleeve supports the bore size you want then use a factory sleeve.
MID sleeves are definitely a more difficult task than the dry sleeves.
Last edited by The Race Engine Shop; 02-03-2018 at 08:18 PM.
02-03-2018, 10:56 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
There has been a bitch of a change in the last day or three and someone is coming tomorrow to buy my turbo drag quad from me, that puts room in the budget for an all out top of the line build. Once I get back from my business trip next week itll be time to start shopping for an big CI setup to support 1500ish on a TT setup. Heres to a year long build and draining my savings!
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MVP @ TheRaceEngineShop (02-03-2018)
02-04-2018, 01:49 AM
#13
Former Vendor
There has been a bitch of a change in the last day or three and someone is coming tomorrow to buy my turbo drag quad from me, that puts room in the budget for an all out top of the line build. Once I get back from my business trip next week itll be time to start shopping for an big CI setup to support 1500ish on a TT setup. Heres to a year long build and draining my savings!
what are big cubes to you? When you say 1,500 are you referencing wheel or engine HP?
02-04-2018, 06:40 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Im interested in getting an aluminum 6 bolt block conversion like ERL used to do. Anyone still doing the 6 bolt tabs? I'm not needing the aftermarket sleeves I just want to add the "tabs" onto a L33 block so I can run the 6 bolt heads
the huron kit will support 1500 with the right fueling and turbos but I think going iron block with ls next or lsx block would make sense at this point.
for the OP, I saw an LSX LS3 style long block with 427 forged roating assembly for 5k which is a SMOKING deal.
I'm going to stay smaller bore which limits my head choices but hopefully I can stay within the sweet spot of the turbos as the TTix is limited there. I'm going with 3" down pipes and .82 exh housing turbos but the huron is a much cleaner design and easier to install and supports the larger turbos without going rear or mid mount.
I like the setup the best overall and it's a great choice
Another "low buck" option that I'm thinking of going with that I already have. 4.8 iron block with gen 4 rods, stock crank The turbo system won't let me rev much past 6500 and I'll be staying around 20 psi or so boost with a target of 800 at the tire with good reliability. The short block was very affordable and I think it will live.
the huron kit will support 1500 with the right fueling and turbos but I think going iron block with ls next or lsx block would make sense at this point.
for the OP, I saw an LSX LS3 style long block with 427 forged roating assembly for 5k which is a SMOKING deal.
I'm going to stay smaller bore which limits my head choices but hopefully I can stay within the sweet spot of the turbos as the TTix is limited there. I'm going with 3" down pipes and .82 exh housing turbos but the huron is a much cleaner design and easier to install and supports the larger turbos without going rear or mid mount.
I like the setup the best overall and it's a great choice
Another "low buck" option that I'm thinking of going with that I already have. 4.8 iron block with gen 4 rods, stock crank The turbo system won't let me rev much past 6500 and I'll be staying around 20 psi or so boost with a target of 800 at the tire with good reliability. The short block was very affordable and I think it will live.
02-05-2018, 01:26 AM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
I’ve been online shopping to see what an iron LS Next setup would cost and it looks like it’ll be the ticket. And 1500 I mean wheel, I may be in California but TX2K is only an 18 hour drive away. I figure throw a BUNCH of money at it once, and then never have to really worry about where I end up power adder wise down the road. If my cars down for a year or year and a half while it’s being built/saving for parts so be it.
Last edited by ss4luck; 02-05-2018 at 01:28 AM.
02-05-2018, 01:30 AM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Where’d you see that for sale??
Last edited by ss4luck; 02-05-2018 at 01:30 AM.
02-05-2018, 02:10 AM
#18
Former Vendor
Haha 427+
I’ve been online shopping to see what an iron LS Next setup would cost and it looks like it’ll be the ticket. And 1500 I mean wheel, I may be in California but TX2K is only an 18 hour drive away. I figure throw a BUNCH of money at it once, and then never have to really worry about where I end up power adder wise down the road. If my cars down for a year or year and a half while it’s being built/saving for parts so be it.
I’ve been online shopping to see what an iron LS Next setup would cost and it looks like it’ll be the ticket. And 1500 I mean wheel, I may be in California but TX2K is only an 18 hour drive away. I figure throw a BUNCH of money at it once, and then never have to really worry about where I end up power adder wise down the road. If my cars down for a year or year and a half while it’s being built/saving for parts so be it.
i defintiely agree an Iron Block is the best bet for big power. You should consider an LSx with some really good parts.
If if I was you, besides the pistons obviously I’d put timken steel parts in there all around.
I can tell you off the top of my head
LSx Block,
Callies Ultra I Beam Rods,
Callies Ultra Billet 4.000” Crank,
The right piston Pin and ring setup
camshaft, Some decent tiebar limited travel lifters, and timing set
Bearings
625+ head studs
pushrods
625+ main studs
good oil pump
machine and assembly
You’re looking at just over $14K for a short block.
the better version of the iron LS next is going to be in the same ball park price wise
Last edited by The Race Engine Shop; 02-05-2018 at 02:15 AM.
02-05-2018, 07:30 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Looks a lot like the list I was already planning in my head. Is there any benefit to the LSX over the dart? I’ve heard a lot of back and forth about the LSX over on yellowbullet which is why I had been leaning towards the dart
02-05-2018, 10:18 PM
#20
Former Vendor
heres what I can tell you.
When you compair the LSx to the dart block, you really need to specify which dart block. There are actually two Dart Iron Block well... now three.
There’s the Dart LS Next Special High Performance (SHP) this is the cheapest one. It’s slightly better in material strength (it’s a class 30 Grey Iron if I recall correctly) over a stock block but no where near the material strength of the LSx Block. However, it’s my opinion that the splayed caps it uses in conjunction with larger diameter main fasteners, might actually make it a better design. It definitely has more clamping force than the LS/LSx simply because the fasteners are larger.
The Dart LS Next Iron. It’s like the SHP but made with better iron.
Then theres thd dart dart SHP Pro. It comes with main studs right out of the box and is a
Dart art is about to release the SHP Pro, it comes with a higher nickel content much like the Dart Little and Big M blocks.
the price is projected to be a few hundred more than the SHP Block from what I understand which puts it right inline with the price of the LSx block. It also uses a factory LS Rear cover which is nice. I hate the stupid o ring style gasket the LSx block uses for the rear covers. Hopefully dart listened to the engine builders too (I know I’m not the only one who said hey y’all should do thread in style “Freeze Plugs” like the LSx. I believe if I recall correctly the other dart iron block has threaded plugs.
In the end, I dont think you can go wrong with either the LSx or the higher end dart iron blocks when you’re after really big power.