Mr.Tool

Looking to add supercharger :eek:
From posts in this section, I better stay away from ATI :yesnod:

NYtoCA

If you do a search, you'll see that andy @ http://www.aandacorvette.com has it down to perfection.

I'm sure others will chime in here and agree.

R6_C5_CLS55

Reported problems that I have not had that others have had:

I have not a had a belt shredding / breaking problem.
I have not had an overheating problem.
I have not had a belt slipping problem.
I have not had boost surge / faulty BOV.


Problems that I have had:

I did have a major tuning problem with the POS Superchips programmer, but fixed that with Ed Wright tuning.
We did have some difficulty with getting the intercooler ducting to fit right and gettig the intake to fit so that it does not hit the hood liner.
I did have a problem with oil being pushed out of the motor via the fresh air intake and into the air box / compressor intake.

There are problems with the system, but there are currently work arounds for almost all, if not all of them.

Should ATI have caught and fixed these during R&D - yes.
Have they offered solutions to those that have already purchased and installed their kit- not to my knowledge.
Did I have to spend a significant amount of extra money just to make their system perform as they had advertised - yes.
Is their customer support and willingness to help solve technical problems severely lacking - yes.
Do their technicians pretend not to know about problems with their kits that we all know about - yes.
Does all of that tick me off - yes.

Am I curretly happy with the performance of my car - yes.

Would I do it all again - no thanks.

Cya5

I am with R6_C5_ML430. We also had tuning done a week apart. :cheers:

Chris@East Coast Supercharging

ATI is by far the best out there if you have experience with knowing the tricks on installation and tuning :yesnod: :yesnod:

BLUTHUNDER

I couldn't be happier with the performance and reliability from my ATI Procharger.
If i had to do it over again i wouldn't change a thing. As Chris mentioned The key is making sure that you have a knowledgeable and experienced tuner do your install.

ATI likes to market this set up as a "bolt on do it yourself " mod .. But that is far from the reality.


:cheers:

Jeff

evil-1

I don't have one yet but from all the research and threads I've read I believe most need some tweeking.
Weather you have a tuner mod it out of the box and you install or have them do the whole enchulatta, there is ongoing issues to deal with.

If you know how to keep the system in check and watch for things your fine with the ATI system, it's an excellent product and the one I'll probably purchase.


[Modified by evil-1, 12:00 AM 10/24/2002]

don527

i see from another thread that eikeland is back in the u.s. and brought his ati vert back for some maintenance and adjustment work on the vette.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=419790

he was one of the firsts to get an ati... would be interesting to get his views on the setup now that he has had it over a year and whether there were any issues.



[Modified by don527, 1:03 PM 10/28/2002]

Shinobi'sZ

There have been some definite problems with the ATI, but they are well documented and easily fixed. Some do not have any problems with over heating...but I feel that it varies by Geographical Location, tuning, and use of the vehicle (ac on in 100+ weather. etc...). For this reason I had my ATI modded to use the stock fan shroud and a cold air intake for the blower vs..sucking air from behind the radiator. My car kicks butt...way faster than my H&C car...there are some major differences..ones that lead me to say I would rather be blown any day rather than blown away..The ATI rips, but needs some adjustments, hopefully with the introduction of the C5 Vortec kit (which looks to be very promising) ATI will step up the quality control on some of the components that make up the ATI system...however I feel intercoolers are better than aftercoolers...go with the ATI or Vortec dude...I am sure you won't be sorry..the Magnacharger looks weak to me and the horsepower it puts out isn't that much more than a H&C car, it does make more torque down low...but that makes traction matters even worse...so what good is it if you can't use it, plus you need a new hood.

55SUX

Shinobis'Z,

What is the difference between intercooled and aftercooled. I thought they were used interchangeably for the same thing - a cooler after the compressor to reduce air temperature caused by the heat of compression before it goes into the engine. Only difference is ATI uses air to air cooler and vortech uses air to water cooler.

Shinobi'sZ

The concept is the same between intercooler and aftercooler...to cool the charge of air entering the intake..the way they do it is different. I feel that the intercooler is more efficient...does it make a difference for the C5?? The only real way to tell would be to run EASE or Autotap while running the car on identically setup cars...one running the new Vortec and one running the ATI,,,and then test the IAT at the TB..see which one is cooler,,,if it is marginal than I would not worry about it...but heat kills!!!!
I noticed the Vortec is using an aftercooler, which I believe would draw coolant from the rad to cool or it may be a self contained (have its own coolant)so if the coolant is hot then the air it is trying to cool will be hot. I think the Vortec is going to be a very good kit...but I believe that the twin intercoolers delivers a more dense/saturated charge of air. I believe that GWP's one big 3"core aftercooler is arguably the best setup I have seen with any S/C..Vetterdstr will have it on his car shortly...we are going to compare IAT's and see how the two of them work at the track...if it is a noticable difference I will change to the one HUGE aftercooler vs. the little twins. Hope this helps...I wasn't trying to bag on the Vortec because I have an ATI...I think the Vortec is going to work very well and is good competition for the ATI.


[Modified by Shinobi'sZ, 1:09 PM 10/28/2002]

dbvettez06

Some good answers in this thread...I have had 2 systems, the C5 blower should have had more tech work done before ATI released it, but if your looking for max power, find a very good installer, and the best programming, and i guarantee you, you will be smiling :yesnod:

55SUX

What I was saying is that intercooling and aftercooling is the same thing. In the compression industry the term intercooling is used when you have multiple stages of compression and you are cooling between stages. After cooling is done after the last stage of compression. I took your comment to be that vortech was doing aftercooling and ATI was doing intercooling. Both ATI and Vortech are doing the same thing. Only one is using an air to air cooler and one is using an air to water cooler. I know one is calling it aftercooling and one is calling it intercooling but they are both really aftercooled, ie. cooled after the last stage of compression. So when you say intercooling is more efficient what i think you realy meant was that an air to air aftercooling is more efficient because you can get a lower intake temp. I haven't seen the Vortech kit but I think they are using a separate cooling water circuit with another air to water cooler to cool the water back down. That's why you'll never get the intake air as cool as with an air to air aftercooler (unless you use ice), that is assuming all the coolers are sized correctly. :D

After thinking about this, I don't think my statement above is correct. I think you can get about the same intake temperature air with the air to water as an air to air. Especially with a C5 because you are limited to area you have to fit a cooler. Because of size limits air to air coolers will have an approach of about 20 degrees if you're lucky. That can be matched with an air to water system without using ice. So each one has it's benefits and you can pick whichever one you like because they will both achieve the desired results (ability to run higher boost levels).

One thing that does bother me though it that some guys say they are getting oil in their aftercoolers from the PCV system. This isn't good as it will foul the coolers and reduce the heat transer coefficient. :(


[Modified by 55SUX, 11:52 AM 10/29/2002]

MelloYellow

Air to Water advantages...
Less tubing vs. air to air allows less loss of PSI and head unit doesn't have to spin as high RPM's to compensate. Longer head unit life.
Less clearance to ground problems. Less weight. If you have a lowered car, air to air can cause some issues based on install.
Ice can be an advantage at the track.

Disadvantages, cooling ambients is similar. Uses a separate coolant reservoir. Not sure what is used as coolant. Just water? Not sure if you can use additives other than ice of course.
Over LONG periods of time, the air to water can lose efficiency as the coolant heats up. I think we're talking well over 15 SOLID minutes at max boost. Not the type of driving you'd see on the street. Air to water may see some efficiency problems under continuous use, ie: roadracing.

Shinobi'sZ

I agree with both of you guys on pros and cons. I know that LPE uses the twin intercooled system on the twin turbo, and I believe so does the new Cerra single turbo (in fact it looks real similar to the ATI setup). I think GWP's use of one large single intercooler is better than both the ATI setup and the use of the Vortec aftercooler system. The one thing I will say about Mello's comment of air to air loosing boost via the more plumbing and turn etc...(Kenny at GWP told me the same thing, that is why he uses just 2[2 90 degree turns] 3" tubes and 1 big intercooler) is you are correct.....but my boost gage still says 8-9 lbs when I am nailing it and my poor 335's were burning out at 80mph for about 60' in 3rd gear yesterday...so I don't mind if I am loosing a little boost..because it really doesn't matter at that point...if fact I am considering buying a larger pully for street and track and keeping this small one for drag racing....it is pretty rediculous on the street..but is sure fun to do!

I have a feeling the Vortec is going to rock! Look for Dan's prototype Vortec Z06 at this years SEMA show. I think Andy @ A&A is going to put one on and try it out too...especially since he has done so many custom ATI's...we know what they do...now we can try out Vortecs. I think Vortec has got a better package to start off with...now. Compared to when ATI relaeased their package. Interesting the maf is before the blower on the Vortec.


[Modified by Shinobi'sZ, 9:07 PM 10/28/2002]

vetterdstr

I have a strong feeling that this setup is much better than the dual intercoolers. I will let you guys know how this new setup works. :)

vetterdstr :cheers:

xtream1

vetterdstr,
can you please send/post a pic of your new aftercooler set-up.

vetterdstr

I will do that. :yesnod: In the meantime you can read about the info by going to http://www.goldenwestperformance.com Go to the LS1 department and look for the Stage II S/C setup. If you have any questions about it give them a call. :)

vetterdstr :cheers:

55SUX

Can't get to their website now. Where are you mounting the larger single cooler?

vetterdstr

I just went to the web site and it is working now. The intercooler is mounted in front of the AC condenser.

vetterdstr :cheers: