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Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5?

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Old 11-03-2003, 07:25 PM   #1
Rob0451
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Default Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5?

I'm a newbie to the world of C5 performance and looking into buying a ATI D1 S/C'd C5 coupe. Its currently running 7lbs of boost but from my experience with GN's, Supra's and Rx7's i know a lot of guys can run significantly more boost safely with a good water/methanol injection kit. Is there one available for C5 applications? Is there anyone on the board using a universal kit? I know SMC and Aquamist both make kits, I think SMC makes a great product and would be my choice, but i think i've reat that the SMC kit is for denatured ethanol and can't handle methanol. Thanks for any and all info.

Oh and i would have searched, since i'm sure this topic has been touched on before if not beat to death, but i can't find the search button..... Just found the search button, but i'm gonna post this anyway since i already typed it all out
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (Rob0451)

It obviously works just like it does on those other cars. Some will tell you that it is not needed unless you are running really high boost, but I don't buy that line at all. The high static compression of the stock ls1 makes it a very good thing to have. Race gas is the other alternative, but is obviously much more expensive.

I started with an SMC kit but ended up building my own setup based on a sureflow pump (i'm still using the SCM controller). The sureflow pump can be purchased many places (notherntools.com). I found that the standard SCM kit could not supply enough pressure for the needs of a 346ci motor or support methanol (although I think he has a high end kit now that could do the trick). These ls1 seems to need quite a bit of the stuff.

The sureflow pump is really good, but it tends to surge a little even with the pressure control switch removed. I solved the surging problem with a small intermediate tank. I can provide install pictures... if you are really interested. The setup is capable of pushing over 300psi. . I currently have it setup to run 2 m10 nozzels at about 160psi. The first nozzle comes on at 2.5 psi and the 2nd one comes on at 5psi.

My car has been (and still is) in a state of constant transition, so I donít have a really good feel for exactly what the alky injection has provided. It definitely allowed me to run more timing, but I still have had some KR issues (but I think I have that figured out now). The numbers in my sig give you some idea of what it can do on a stock longblock, but Iím pretty sure it could do much better.

Iím putting on some heads and a blower cam next, so we will see if the alky/water setup can help keep the motor together when itís putting out some serious power.



[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 12:43 AM 11/4/2003]
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (Rob0451)

I am running distilled water (50%) and denatured alochol (50%). I built an aluminum tank that holds 4 gallons. I have it spraying into the throttlebody, just behind the throttleblade. I have a two stage pump, first stage at 5 lbs. boost, and second stage at 12 lbs. boost.
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (QuickSilver2002)

Ok, couple more quick questions? where do you have your pump and storage vessel mounted? How big is the stock windshield wiper fluid tank? Does the Ls1 edit make it fairly easy to pull out fuel to counteract the methanol? Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2003, 11:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (vette99)

So how much more boost can be run with the stock bottom end? :D
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (Rob0451)

Quote:
Ok, couple more quick questions? where do you have your pump and storage vessel mounted? How big is the stock windshield wiper fluid tank? Does the Ls1 edit make it fairly easy to pull out fuel to counteract the methanol? Thanks!
My pump is bolted up to the drivers side wheel well access panel (plenty of room down there).

I use the washer tank, it holds roughly 1 gallon and works pretty well if you have an external diaphragm pump.

Yes, ls1 edit makes it fairly easy to pull out fuel, but you should not need to pull much, since methanol burns efficiently at very rich ratios (this is the entire reason that methanol works well for this purpose (lots of chamber cooling). It really depends how close to the edge you wan to run it.



[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 10:27 PM 11/3/2003]
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:04 AM   #7
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (LS1MASACRE)

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So how much more boost can be run with the stock bottom end? :D
We're trying to find out... :lol:
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Old 11-04-2003, 12:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (LS1MASACRE)

I've been drag racing my 1999 for four years now. The first two years was with the stock bottom end, D1 blower head producing 15 PSI, and water injection for intercooling. The motor ran great and produced decent HP (565 RWHP). Upon winter teardown and internal inspection the bottom end looked great bearing wise. The only problem was the rings. There were scorch marks downward on the cylinder walls, from the top of the piston ring mark, downward approx 1/2" - 3/4". It appeared the rings were starting to fail, or did not have the ability to seal under the extreme cylinder pressures.

The last two years we have been running an F1R Compressor at 18 PSI with the STOCK CRANKSHAFT, which was offset ground to give us the stroke we wanted, and we are running forged rods and pistons, and total seal rings. The rest of the motor is modified with ARP studs, flowed and O Ringed cylinder heads, flowed everything, 1.8 Crane rocker kit, etc. We keep the motor Out of Detnotation with dual intercooling, air to air and small water injection. We are making 701.8 RWHP, and right now the motor is fat, fat, fat. As we start to lean it out, we hope to crack the 800 RWHP. This is on the Stock Crank!!!! R&D is very interesting!!!!
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Old 11-04-2003, 01:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (vette99)

I agree with Vette99. The alky/water injection will keep you out of detonation and will let you run quite a bit more boost (I've ran up to 10psi so far on my stock boottom end without any serious problems). I also agree that the rings are the biggest concern above 10psi. The pistons seem to hold together fine if you keep the car out of detonation, but the rings seem to start giving out with a bunch of boost.

I'm pretty sure I'm starting to get some blowby above 9psi, but I'm going to see what an electric vacuum pump on the crankcase will do for me.

Itís just a matter of time before I blow the stock bottom end and drop in a new shortblock, but I hope to make some massive power on the stock unit first.
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Old 11-12-2003, 11:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5?

Wow, I didn't know that may people were running water/alky setups on the c5.

I have been looking into doing a setup for the past couple of months. With all the used ati brackets floating around I figure I could do a setup with a p1sc and water/alky for about 3k. (used bracket $175, p1 $1800, water/alky hommade setup $600, misc clamps, hoses $500). I already have injectors and ls1 edit so that helps. Anything more than 3k and I am probably better off going with andy's kit.

The only thing I am not sure about is how much boost the p1sc puts out at the HU(any ideas?) and how much you can get before you experience belt slip with the original ati bracket. I'm not looking for a super huge gain but I would like something better than all the head/cam setups out there (500rwhp).
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Old 11-12-2003, 08:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (Rob0451)

I have a carroll supercharged kit stage 1 6psi (vortech blower SQ)
His stage to uses 8psi with a water injection system.
Distilled water and denatured alcohol.
I seen plenty of guys with his kit running up to 10 psi
with the water injection. Cools air by 150 degrees instantly.
He has a few set ups I'm getting his stage IV deluxe water injection
Red light tells u when injecting and alerts u if there a problem,
ties in with the fuel pump some how. $1,000 bucks.
So if u have no fuel no injecting.
:cool:
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Old 11-13-2003, 01:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (sacsrpc)

I'm using a homemade kit with a shurflow pump and mcmaster carr nozzels..

I've been eyeing some soliniods at mcmaster car and I think i'm going to put a two stage. I have it to come on at more than 25% throttle. (this is a eaton car, very simular to your magnusson)

in short, at the track using -20F washer fluid (52% methnol @ 1.52 a gallon) I was able to run 9 more degrees of timing with less knock (talking about less than a degree here) than without the water/alchol injection on. The car also picked up 3mph.
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Old 12-09-2003, 04:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Anyone using Water/Methanol Injection on a boosted C5? (Alvin)

Quote:
I'm using a homemade kit with a shurflow pump and mcmaster carr nozzels..

I've been eyeing some soliniods at mcmaster car and I think i'm going to put a two stage. I have it to come on at more than 25% throttle. (this is a eaton car, very simular to your magnusson)

in short, at the track using -20F washer fluid (52% methnol @ 1.52 a gallon) I was able to run 9 more degrees of timing with less knock (talking about less than a degree here) than without the water/alchol injection on. The car also picked up 3mph.
Alvin,

I would like to get in touch with you to talk about some tuning options for my C5. I am in Fayetteville also. IMed you :yesnod:
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