MagikDraggin

I am amused by the coments made following the addition of some aftermarket gadget, exhaust system, or the switch to another brand of gasoline or the inclusion of some fuel additive.

"Yeah, I felt a real 'seat of the pants' improvement".

Some people must have some real super-sensitive butts to be able to discern the 2, 3 or maybe 5 to 10 hp increase that any one of these changes MIGHT offer. Otherwise, I think it's more like a case of wishful thinking.

When I built up my '96 C4 a couple years back, I did it in stages. And the only thing that I could REALLY and HONESTLY say I could feel a definite "seat of the pants" improvement in acceleration was with the addition of the 3.54 gears over the stock 2.59's. Everything else along the way showed a few horsepower increase here and there on the dyno, but nothing consistent at the track.

I guess it's whatever floats ones own boat, as to what their pants feel when they stick a blackwing filter on, or a shiny new Corsa exhaust system, or pour in a can of Techron additive, or switch from Shell gasoline to Mobile gasoline, or visa versa.

The only thing my pants ever felt after doing some of these things is how much lighter they were after having forked out all those bucks for these exorbitantly priced things.

Yeah, yeah, I know.....this should have been posted in Offtopic, but I chose to post it here because people don't post their "seat of the pants" experiences in offtopic, and it would have only fallen on 'deaf ears' there.

NAVY08

Well its not nessisarily horespower you feel but acceleration, for example you mentioned that you felt the gear change, thats because it allowed you to accelerate faster, not because it gave you more horsepower. Something like a bigger throttlebody whick may onbly afford 5-10 hp on the top of the dyno graph will allow you to feel much better acceleration throughout the lower Rpm's. I sold my turbo WRX before i got my vette (yeah i know it was rice, i was young and i sold it give me a break) Whenever i did a mod to increase airflow i felt it, wheather it was taking a cat out of the up pipe, or replacing the boost hoses with freer flowing ones. Now someone will probably chime in and prove me wrong, im no expert, but thats just my .02. Take it easy

MagikDraggin

I understand your point. But when such and such a change is done and you're off to the track to see what sort of improvements it did in your ET's, only to find that there is NO change, and in some instances actually were worse than they previous times, what I had THOUGHT I felt as increased acceleration was only my interpretation of the fact that it just SOUNDED different. IOW, wishful thinking. (sorry for the run-on sentence)

However, I do agree with your assessment of the issue of increased horsepower not necessarily being required to obtain a true "seat of the pants" improvement in acceleration.

Then again, in a very real sense that change of gears was still all about horsepower, as the gear change permitted the LT1 in that C4 to get into the power range MUCH sooner, therefore resulting in an obvious sensation of accelerating faster.
Oh, I'm alright....just needed to vent on that particular subject a little bit as being a grossly abused statement. Some of these "seat of the pants" improvements are, in my opinion, nothing more than the medical equivilant of a "placebo".

UniqueDoug

I must be one of those few, elite, placebo induced fellows that has a "sensitive" rear. I used to be able to tell a difference between acceleration in the morning (with the cooler air in the 60's) and the afternoon (in the 90's). What is that difference, like 10-15 hp? I once drove a friends '01 Coupe that was the same as my '01, with the exception of the intakes (his sit on top in the hot engine compartment dual cone vs. my breathless cut-the-shroud cold-air), and could dramatically tell the difference (we are probably also talking about 10-15 hp difference here too). Finally, a scientific study to prove the theory!`

WKMCD

A lot of the "seat -of-the-pants" comments are the result of the back right pocket being a little lighter. When I installed the Vortex CAI I did notice a difference. Same for the headers/cats. I did not notice a difference from the cat-back or the Shaner TB, the later being part of the H/C package done soon.

No one wants to admit money spent was wasted (air bridge) but if it makes you happy - do it!

Ken1234

I agree with magikdraggin. All this $$ on mods for such little change in performance. I just switched from 2.73 to 3.42, no TC change. My times in the 1/8 mile were exactly the same. Although you get a better sensation of increase performance, theses times indicate no change. It just feels better.

MY1STPEWTER

With the vette tax on some of these mods you mind makes your but feel it.

MagikDraggin

I could do that too. But the way I noticed it, was not throught my butt-o-meter, but by the fact that I could easily light up the tires off the line in the cool mornings, but NOT so easily when the temps got well into the upper 80's and 90's. (This was when I still had the 2.59 gears in it).

But then again, was that really a matter of 15 more ponies being available, or simply that the tires were 'harder' and not quite so 'sticky' when it's colder outside? Or maybe a combination of both?
As I mentioned previously, I did the mods on my old C4 in stages. When I installed the TPIS long tubes, they were indeed louder and I had the distinct impression the car was accelerating much faster.

However, on the dyno, instead of the 30hp increase which was advertised, I only saw an increase of 15. At the track, I saw literally no change in ET, but did see a couple more MPH at the top end.

Now in all fairness here, when a month later, the ZZ4 cam and lifter package was installed, I saw an overall increase of nearly 50 HP (probably because of the headers, allowing everything to breath better), and the butt-o-meter definitely felt THAT.


Doncha just love it? Seriously though, I really doubt the average person can discern what (if any) increase in acceleration there might be as the result of an under 10hp increase in power.

I am glad though, that you chose to take my "rant" in the humorous (albeit somewhat veiled) vein, which I had intended when I originally posted it.

UniqueDoug

[QUOTE=I am glad though, that you chose to take my "rant" in the humorous (albeit somewhat veiled) vein, which I had intended when I originally posted it. [/QUOTE]

No problem...that is what I am here for!

printmanjackson

great and funny thread. I was thinking the same thing thinking about spending about 2 grand on performance parts and wondering if it would be worth it.

HmnRcn

I agree that it may be tough to tell if what you "think" you are feeling is real or not. However, if someone shells out for a new mod, and THEIR but-o-meter tells them its better, then they got what they wanted. Most of the folks that buy the "smaller" mods, like me, (intake, exhaust, etc) aren't looking to get 100 more hp, but they want their car to "feel" better and/or sound better. As long as the person paying for the mod is happy with it, I say long live the SOTP feeling.

mrm1149

Sounds good to me!

MagikDraggin

I hear ya bud...and really, I honestly can't agree more with what you said.

Brings back memories when I installed a brand new set of shiny chrome reverse rims with chrome baby moons on a '58 Dodge D500 I once owned. I just KNOW that car went so much faster with them, and I went racing around Colorado Boulevard in Pasadena to prove it, not only to me, but everybody else around.

I could FEEL it, ya know....right in my seat of the pants. Yeahhhh, THOSE were the days. And no one can ever 'take that feeling' away from me.

STA-BLK

GREAT THREAD!!! Im one of the "why did i just buy that " guys.

1. 3.42's and 3000 stall= Feels faster off the line but no gain at the track(seriously)

2. Vararam = No improvement,anywhere

3. Kooks lt's = No felt improvement but a 1-2 tenth gain e.t.

4.X-pipe,Catback = No improvement

5. Dyno tune= No improvement

6.All the free mods you can get= No improvement

Now for the nay sayers.If you think somthing was installed wrong or im making it up,please come to missouri and make my car faster.

MagikDraggin

I believe ya, (really I do), except for that gear and T/C change. Surely you knocked off a couple tenths with that mod?

Could have been the condx at the track THAT day were so different than your previous run, that it cancelled out what gains you should have had.

Have you tried running it since then? If not, pick a day when its under 75 degees and relatively low humidity, and you should most DEFINITELY see a difference for the better.

`

STA-BLK

You are correct.The first run was end of year cold weather.But it was pinging the whole way down the track! Horrible tune when i bought the car. Bought a predator and made matters worse! By the way the predator made no SOTP improvement either.

The run after the gears was in very hot weather too. I guess i should have said that. Im running it friday night at the same track with forecasted 70 degree weather.I didnt think weather would have made a big enough difference to offset the gears and stall!

Point is i feel ya on the SOTP or butt o meter thing.It really isnt worth half the money it costs for the mods we buy.