tonyh2000

Pretty simple if you do not have a dog in the fight stay out of it.

Unless you have 1st hand knowledge of the issue stay out of it.

There have been many posts deleted and some of those that were deleted know better.

CleteZ16

Enlightening thread.

LG Motorsports

Hi Guys,

Well this post started yesterday and I guess that I should not take a day off from the forum or we will get bashed within 24 hours.

I also want to point out that I never personally talked with this customer.

Let me start by saying that any of you who have been on the forum for more than 8 months knows that LG Motorsports ALWAYS does the right thing.

The customer in question on his 2000 C5 did not like the look of the headers, with the split tube that is used in order to make the compound/tight bend at that tube.

We agreed to take the headers back after his installer bad mouthed our headers. His installer is a dealer of another brand and he missed out on the sale since the customer bought them direct from LG. Hence the motive.

The root cause of this buyer's remorse is not the split tube or the weld inside the primary but the issue was that his installer wanted to make a few hundred bucks mark up by selling him the other brand of headers. So be it. This is America.

Enough about that. After we agreed to take the headers back, the customer took the headers and a full muffler system and sent them back, packed with no packing and without regard for the condition of the product during shipping.

Obviously, once the UPS guy took the boxes, the customer didn't care what happened because there was no care taken to protect the products in the boxes.

The headers came back with the mufflers and headers mixed up in the boxes with no packing and with one end of the headers sticking out of the box being dragged scraped and damaged during shipping.

Only the shipper can make a claim to UPS and there was no insurance, so we were stuck with a really damaged set of headers, with mufflers that were dented and also scraped.

What would any of you do? Which customer that follows would want to pay full price for a damaged set of headers?

SO We charged a 20% re-stocking fee because of the total disrespect that the packaging of the return and the damage that resulted. The restocking fee is posted throughout the web site, but we very rarely charge it because we almost always make our customers happy.

He never installed the headers in his car, again because his installer would only make money if he bad mouthed our headers and got to sell him another brand to make the mark up.

Now, looking at the headers, yes, we have a split tube. it is a male female connection that is welded. For flow, the direction is correct.

in the final analysis, I would still put our headers up against the brand that he ultimately installed in his car.

LG Motorsports has done more for customers with less of an excuse for sending a part back and we do it over and over for years.

Since the customer has only been a member for about 8 months, he would not have known that, so we can forgive him. We stand behind our products and even give a life time warranty. We have been on the forum for about half as long as this customer has been alive and we will ALWAYS DO THE RIGHT THING!

You will find many customers who bought a used Corvette with our headers on it and we STILL warranty any defects or cracks. Most of you LONG TIMERS know this.

So I ask you all if LG Motorsports should refund the 20% based upon the condition of the returned parts? Really, what is a business to do when confronted with a customer who had buyers remorse that was triggered by an installer who wanted to make a few bucks. Then sends them back carlessly and they get damaged.

Now, there is a right way and a wrong way to return a product. Had this 20 year old customer re packed the headers and mufflers properly and called and just said I don't want these , LG Motorsports, upon receiving the parts back in good condition, would have refunded 100%.

As a business we always wish things like this did not happen. Had he installed them on the car, he would have experienced a hugh increase in Torque over any brand and equal power for all but the top 200 rpms. Horsepower sells parts, Torque wins races. Our new 1 7/8 Super pros are tops in power AND torque.

As for China, GM makes 28% of the Corvette over seas. We have the best Mege Collectors on the market. I got an Investment casting of our Merge collectors made in China. That is the only way to provide that style of collectors for the same price as the "Stamped" collectors that the other brand uses. We use to pay $350 Each ($700 a pair) for true race Merge collectors. Now we can provide them to our customers for the cost of stamped collectors. We wanted to have them built in the US but thanks to the EPA it is cost prohibitive.

I can only hope that the same 4000 people that looked at this thread will read my response and judge for them selves, and put themselves in our spot and consider what you would have done.

We are not the Government, we have to pay for every thing we do and we can not just refund 100% for damaged returns. Each of us has to be accountable for our actions, including customers.

Thanks guys, and God bless America.

Lou Gigliotti
LG Motorsports

Double Aught

Thanks for giving your side of the story. It seems the OP didn't have to bash the company in a public forum, only send the items back for a full refund. Now you have to take the damaged items, write them off against your profit and you have to work twice as hard to make up for it. Now lets hope this thread gets 8k views, so everyone that posted and read it knows both sides of the story.

Kevin993

I guess there is always two sides to a story.

Toque

Lou:

Bravo

I knew this story sounded fishy. I have NEVER received parts from you that were anything less than top notch in quality. That's why I love doing business with your company.

I think its totally fair to charge a restocking fee since the parts he returned were damaged (his negligence). If it were me, I would have sent him the damaged headers back to his house, and not refunded him a penny... I would have told him to deal with UPS to get them to pay for the damage.

Good job Lou!
Toque

Renegade00

?

My installer? I was doing the install myself in my garage. After your product was returned I bought my set of AR headers directly from ECS. When I called I simply asked why these looked the way they did. I never paid a shop to do this. I did them on my own.

Secondly, what does my age have to do with anything? "Had this 20 year old"... I believe I handled this very professionally, in fact, more professionally than you or anybody at your facility. You "have been on the forum for half as long as this customer has been alive"? Again, why make my age part of your response to why the headers look the way they did?

Lastly, if the headers were packed up as you described, why did it take three weeks for your company to issue me a refund? Why would Bobby, your sales manager, tell me that everything was received properly and in good condition, and promise me a full refund? And why have you been unable to provide any pictures of my so-called "damaged" parts for over three weeks now? I was told you already had taken pictures when I first had this conversation with Bobby. Where are they?

And that is a very good question.. "Which customer that follows would want to pay full price for a damaged set of headers?". I cannot agree with you more. Why would I want to pay full price, let alone half price for a set of headers in the condition they were in. The pictures speak for themselves.

The "split tube" as you like to call it, was definitely NOT facing in the right direction. It was restricting down, and then at the end of the "split tube", it would open back up. I have never seen a set of headers like that in my life. Apparently, nobody else felt that was acceptable either.

And you charged me a 20% restocking fee, PLUS charged me for the damage which you could not provide any pictures of.

All of this has been covered in my initial post, and all you've done is make the argument personal by mentioning my age, and make false accusations by telling me I didn't like them because I missed out on a sale my installer was having.

I highly doubt you'd be willing to put your headers up against the brand I ultimately installed on my car.. If your's are so much better than AR's, why do you resort to making chinese knock-offs of their products?

Had this been handled properly over the two months I tried to resolve this, I would have left it alone. Unfortunately for you, you and your organization decided to provide products of inferior quality, and then make blatant lies on a public forum.

For those of you that followed along with the thread, I hope you think twice before dealing with Lou and his company.

Renegade00

And for those of you that do believe him..

Where's his explanation as to the condition of the parts that he sold me?

Why are there obvious large, uneven welds on the insides of the primaries?

Why are there restrictions in the pipes at random sections?

None of these questions have been answered.

Even IF the products were damaged in shipping back, what's the excuse for the condition of the parts that were sent to me originally?

Vega$Vette

Great Lou!!!

However why even bother talking about why he didn't want them?

Bottom line is if the dude just flat out says he changed his mine whatever.

He should have taken care to pack them correctly and I know You would have refunded 100%

DonsLS1

I bought a set of the GT2 seats from LG for my C5. There was a problem with the mounting brackets for the seats and LG jumped through hoops to make it right! They went as far as to custom fab a one off set for my car and overnight them to me. As far as I'm concerned, that's great customer service!

Thanks LG!

FFIN90

Although I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm not taking sides, there is one thing I have learned from this thread.
If ever I have to return an item to someone I will be sure to take pics of the item in the shipping container before taping it up, just to have proof that if there's any damage upon arrival it was caused by the shipping company.

Anomir

I find there to be a good bit of difference in the OP and Lou stories. I do not know the OP but I have met Lou, I have purchased from Lou, I even had a defective part (from manufacturer) from Lou which was made right immediately. I find it hard to believe LG is trying to stiff this guy, it just does not add up for me.

Something fishy is going on here.

209TIME!!!

100%

bcarp

I deal with freight claims all the time and the shipper is responsible for filing the claim. It is a pain to deal with and for you to make a claim you will need pics and the original packaging. That is the way we have to handle our UPS claims. Now for the bad if the product was not packaged properly then they will deny the claim, it has happened to me more than once.

LG Motorsports

I am sorry that this was not brought to my attention sooner. I can assure you that logic would have prevailed and a mutual agreement would have been reached.

But now this has gotten out of hand and there is too much arm chair quarterbacking, taking sides and personal attacks. We build alot of parts and sell tons of headers, and if we get a return, that is not a problem unless it is not sellable at full price.


Tonight was the first I heard of this issue. My sales guys, Anthony and Bobby both are under orders to take back anything that is not damaged. We can only be responsible for our own actions, not that of the customer who thought so little of LGM that they did not take the time to pack the parts so they would not be damaged.

I am not trashing any buyer, I am pointing out that another person, if not his installer, it was another mechanic shop that sold him another brand of headers. I was pointing out the untold motive.

Bobby was asked by Anthony to take photos of the damaged headers, so hopefully he did. And the return was for headers and full set of mufflers.

I am not hearing why he sent the Big 3 Mufflers back at the same time? There was no mention of any defect, he just sent them back.

His age has nothing to do with it but the 8 months on the forum does. That was my main point. He has never seen how we handle customers over the past , almost 10 years on the forum.

LG Motorsports has always stood behind our parts and labor.

It is really hard to WELD headers together without having WELDS somewhere.

To insure that there is no future cracks or leaks, we weld on the outside and the inside. The port is larger than the cylinder head and for those who don't know, Exhaust gasses come out under high pressure, so the Tig weld that you see is just that, a small TIG weld, with no effect on the exhaust gas flow, unless of course you have a top fueler, then everything counts. (or a built Corvette engine)

What I see here is an awesome tig weld with a nice bead that looks like a bead of pearls. And again, let me explain that the flange is cut LARGER so there can be a weld in side the flange without any effect on the power.

DO a close up of any other welds on any other brand like this and you will be surprised for sure.



We don't dispute why the customer does not want to keep a part. We just ask that they make it back to us in good, sellable condition. I don't think that is too much to ask. And in the multiple years on the forum, we have represented our company with honor and dignity.

I trust what my two sales guys have said about the condition of the return. Many of you know Anthony and Bobby and they are pretty good when it comes to customer service. Bobby has had a laps now and then but not Anthony and this was his customer.

I don't like this anymore than the next guy but at what point does a company accept damaged parts back and give a full refund?

Until I have time tomorrow to speak to Anthony and Bobby, I will not know the full story. I am sure that it is not the case that BOTH of my top sales men are lieing to me.


Thanks

Lou Gigliotti

Renegade00

Lou,

First off, Anthony was NOT my sales guy. As was said in my original post, Bobby was the one I spoke with every single time I called to see why my refund wasn't there, where my pictures were, etc. You're saying that Bobby was told by Anthony to take pictures of the damage, yet I called your shop consistently over a period of 2-3 weeks and everytime I spoke with Bobby I received an excuse as to why they had not been sent to me.

You're telling us to do a close up comparison of the insides of the primaries on your headers vs other brands.. That's exactly what I did before I decided to return your product. None of the other brands had raised welds on the insides of the pipes. It looked like they were welded on the insides, but they were hand ported to be smooth and not interfere any flow. Making a flange larger so you can weld the inside and avoid having to port it to smooth it out does not seem to be the way to go about doing it. The pipes were not even centered in the holes on the flange, you can clearly see that in the pictures!

If my age has nothing to do with it, why did you feel it was so important to bring up multiple times in your response. And my length on the forum should not have anything to do with it either. It doesn't take somebody who's been on the forums for 10 years to know that these headers were not right.

If you don't dispute why a customer wants to return a product, why does it matter why I wanted to return the muffler system along with the headers? When I called and told Bobby I would be returning the headers and muffler system, I told him that it was because I was not satisifed with the quality of the headers and did not trust the quality of the muffler system after seeing the headers.

You're "pointing out the untold motive"? What does that mean? I decided to go with another brand after seeing your product. You falsely accused me of having an "installer" who was trying to earn a few hundred bucks by having me return your headers and purchase one from him. That is completely innacurate and untrue. As I said before, my new headers were purchased from ECS, they did not do the install, nor did anybody else. I did them MYSELF.

Lastly, you said you didn't know about this until now? When I called your business and spoke with Bobby about why my refund was short, he told me YOU said not to refund me in full because the products were damaged. His exact words were, "I know I promised a full refund, but I checked with the boss man and he said it was going to cost us to repair the headers."

You're doing a good job at trying to divert the communities attention away from the real issue Lou, but it's not working.

Renegade00

FrankTank, I think we are all glad and appreciative the admins have allowed this thread to stay open. As long as it doesn't resort to bickering/arguing, and stays on topic, there should be no reason for it to close.

This is allowing people to read all the information posted in the thread, and form their own decisions.

Thanks admins

LG Motorsports

Guys,

This has gotten way out of hand. The customer, Renegade00 was notified that the headers were damaged in shipping and he chose to do nothing. My salesman asked him if he would submit a claim but we also know that UPS ALWAYS denies any claim that is not boxed up properly.

So who is accountable? LG, UPS or the shipper?

Aside from that, we had a few headers that did have the slip fit and I believe that that has been eliminated in later sets.

There are plenty of our headers out there that do not have the slip fit.

This is a picture of the kind of headers that he got that has everyone up in arms. (this is not THE headers he got)



We accepted his request to return the headers and we also had no problem refunding his money. but with dented pipes and scratches on the mufflers that were also returned, we were in a hard spot.

We did our part by accepting the return. Unfortunately for everyone concerned, the fact that UPS will not be gentile with boxes is unfortunate. and when UPS does mess up and damage something, they claim that the package was wrong.

Accountability and being responsible for ones actions is a two way street. And for some on this forum to call us liars is uncalled for considering our long standing commitment to do the right thing.

From UPS's point of view, it is always the Shipper's problem. from some of the members on this forum, it is ALWAYS the vendor's fault.

In reality, there is enough blame to go around.

thanks
Lou G

PS guys, I found out his age on his profile tonight not before and it had nothing to do with UPS destroying the headers.

tonyh2000

Both sides have posted time to end this.

tonyh2000

Seems several failed to read the rules before posting and to also read the warnings that were also posted.

If either the OP or LG have anything to add you can PM me or one of the other mods and we will add it to the thread.