SCM_Crash

I have the Elite Engineering catch can. It's actually a good 1/4 full (if not more). I empty it with every oil change. Usually catches a couple ounces between oil changes.

As soon as I get my car back from the fabricators, I'll empty mine and do my oil change. I have 14 quarts of Amsoil sitting here collecting dust. Going through Vette withdraw right now.

But yeah, the catch cans really should have been stock equipment.

STALION

Actually you would be pretty amazed at how much oil can accumulate in a prolonged period of time, and it's quite a bit. Doesn't go back to the oil pan, you empty it every so often.

Dominic Toretto

Whoa, thanks for the information there guys! Since the car has never had one I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to manually clean the intake manifold I guess. I can only imagine how much is in there after 100K LOL. Based on how the system works, I am assuming that the catch can won't have a way to siphon out the existing oil already there correct?

-Alex

STALION

Hey Al, depending on what type of can you get, you just remove the can and either they have a screw off top, or in my case a drain bolt at the bottom. I bought my car with 89k on the clock and it never had one, I can only imagine how dirty the intake is on the inside. How do you plan to clean yours, as I may try and clean the inside of mine just for good measure.

All this talk reminds me that I have to empty mine. Maybe I'll take a vid tonight and show any non-believers the oil that accumulated from last summer to this summer.

GoldenFlame

I had a Saikou Michi Catch Can (One of the best Catch Cans) on my '99 LS1 Z28. It would catch about an ounce or more of oil every 3,500 miles, to me that's a crap load.


This is what my intake ports looked like on my Camaro before the catch can. It only had 51,000 miles on it at this time.


Notice how black and oily they are, the LS1 intake was also lined in a film of oil. I used Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner as opposed to Sea Foam to clean this crap out. I don't have a Can on my Corvette, I opted for the LS6 Valley instead for now, but I'll probably pick up another one here soon.

CCA Corvette Parts

Tks Mike

Peace
Chip

Dominic Toretto

I actually called a few forum vendors in my area last week to see if they would run a bottle of Seafoam through and the response was always a "it's not a good idea." So right now I am looking for other suggestions on how to clean the heads/intake without removing them manually.

-Alex

Bill Vett

This is about a teaspoon of oil that collected in my EE catch can over a 200 mile trip with no spirited driving. I would think that it's better in the can than in the exhaust.

Steve-O

Alex, the can from elite has a petcock on it to allow draining the oil. some do, some dont, maybe thats why they differ in price, also some have nice billet brackets, nice fittings,etc.

Dave68

When you have a few spare moments, take a look at my white paper which includes comparisons of many types of catch cans, along with a detailed explaination of how your PCV system functions.

http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/PCV...oval%20102.pdf

STALION

Holy smokes Dave (no pun intended) That was quite the write up! Maybe you should be in the manufacturing business.

Dave68

...for more than 30 years - thanks, Stalion.

Dave

STALION

It's funny, I was one of those guys who bought the "ebay" kit...I suppose it was better then nothing. Looking through your write up has given me a couple of ideas to modify it and make it better.

wisvette

Dave knows his stuff and helped me do a very nice installation.

ncred02

i got mine from him too. installed it last weekend. good product and it works!!

Jesse Asis

I'm due for a drain this coming weekend, I'll drain and take a picture of it. Been driving the C5 to work since my son came home from the middle east, Qatar (Army). He is now stationed at Fort Hood and came home for a month for his R&R. So we'll see how much oil is in there... Enjoy the clean ride..

I have to admit, I have a $19 dollar catch can, But, I have modified it with a metal tube with wire mesh screen in it and the tube has been air'ed for air/oil conversion, it works very well. I'll add a picture of the internal modication when I drain it this week. Been busy at work..

RanBurVette

I have an elitengineering can and it does work. Have a cam and turn
high RPMs and I am very happy with the results. I live in Ca but in a
county that is smog except. NO SMOG LAWS!!!!:

The Bat Car

Understanding the need for
a proper PCV oil separating catchcan

Any engine driven hard will ingest a certain amount of oil into the intake air system resulting in loss of power, detonation, and long term carbon buildup on the pistons & valves reducing the velocity and flow through the engine.

Preventing this on a street driven car subject to emissions requires some simple modifications to the closed OEM PCV system.

On all out race applications where emission rules do not apply, this is accomplished in different ways, but proper crankcase ventilation is a must! The crankcase gets filled with harmful combustion byproducts that if not evacuated will cause internal damage to your engine and shorten the usable life. These byproducts include: Sulfuric acids, abrasive carbon particles, unburnt fuel, water, and more. If you do not have a proper crankcase evacuation system these compounds will condense inside the engine and mix with the oil as well as begin corroding internal parts. It is NOT enough to just vent the crankcase pressure through a breather, but it must be flushed with a filtered fresh air source to carry these out & away. In an OEM system, these are burnt in the combustion chamber & further in the catalytic converters.

In an off-road or race application, the engine is normally not used to burn them off.
At the very least drag only motors have a scavenge evac system in the header collectors to pull vac, and anyone that's serious has a belt driven vac pump.....especially the Alky motors due to the amount of moisture the alcohol introduces to the crankcase.
*
Want to see whats in your oil? A simple oil analysis will show you how much harmful stuff ends up in it.


The oil analysis will show the acid build up....and no, it takes a year or two before you would see any substantial damage to your internal engine parts.....but an easy way is after 6 months or so of running like you describe pull a valve cover and look and the corrosion from the vapors on your rocker arms. This is the first place it is visible.


Bottom line is, w/out a proper evac system you WILL sustain long term engine damage. It may take a few years to notice, but I build motors 6 days a week when not racing and see the results first hand.

There are several other ways for oil mist to enter the intake manifold, the PCV system is the most common with the fresh air make up source (the fitting on the top rear of your throttle body) being the second most common. To eliminate that you need to cap the TB fitting and run a valve cover breather (installed as far from the crankcase vent as possible...ideally you want to pull filtered fresh air in one valve cover & evac it out the other or the LS6/LS2 style valley cover is second best) Then if it is excess crankcase pressure pushing oil vapor/mist out faster than the PCV can evac it you will see it pushed back through the line from the pass valve cover front to the TB and it is ingested from there. Want to see whats in your intake manifold? Simply remove the 4 10mm bolts that hold the TB to the intake manifold. Take a white paper towel and reach into the intake manifold snout, rub it around, and pull it out. V6 LLT owners...just inside the intake opening you will see a deep collection well that accumulates oil. The 3rd point of ingestion is from reversion. This of course needs at least one piston/ring/bore/valveguide or seal issue that is allowing oil to be pulled into that one or more intake port and at high RPM's the reversion pulse will "push" that oil throughout the entire intake manifold. It will appear to have entered from the vac fitting that the PCV system uses but is really from one of the cylinders (reversion is a whole different process that is not widely understood but do a Google search and you can actually find some super high speed video of engines on dyno's where at high RPM's...9-10-12K plus the reversion cloud of A/F mixture is actually rising out of the intake runners or carb on a non fuel injected motor). To test for that just place a clean clear fuel filter inline between the catch can outlet and the vac fitting. If it gets oil on the can side, oil is coming through the can. If it first appears on the intake vacuum side, then it is reversion so you have a deeper issue.
*
Having engine smoke or excess crankcase pressure? There may be a deeper issue. On the LS motors we pull apart it is usually # 7 ringland broken between the compression & middle ring, or the land itself broke off at the top. We also find the top ringland pinched or crushed down on the top ring (comp. ring) and metal transfer along the piston side has caused the oil & scraper ring to stick allowing oil & blow-by. Also, try this: at idle (vac is at it's greatest when at idle or when the throttle blade closes from high RPM's) remove the oil fill cap and hold your hand over it. Does it pull a slight suction? If so, all is good with most of the system and I doubt you have a damaged piston/ring/bore. But if there is ANY pressure pushing back you have a deeper issue and that is the cause of the oil problem.

Now on big cam/stroker builds a can inline on the dirty side, and a can inline from the fresh air source may be needed (the bigger the bore & longer the stroke, the more crankcase pressure is built up) If it is forced induction, then you have a whole new process to deal with......and that is the PCV system works properly when at idle & non-boost, but when you start making boost you have switched from the intake manifold being negative atmosphere to a pressurized component and the PCV system is rendered useless and pressure escapes wherever it can. The solution then is to have one way check valves inline so the vacuum need for proper evacuation comes from in front of the compressor (head unit) through a line run to the air filter.

This is getting a bit long and I hope all can follow this, but if not ask me specific questions for clarification so this helps all. I'll go over every type of solution and the pros & cons of each....and remember, this problem is NOT just in the GM LS based engines, but is an issue with ALL modern closed systems. We just tear into our cars where as the Mercedes or Lincoln owner never even realizes there is an issue.

I also wanted to address the water in the oil. You will NOT fill your crankcase up in short order with just breathers. What happens is each time your engine reaches operating temp the unburnt fuel, water vapor, combustion by-products will gas or "flash-off" as vapor. But only the excess crankcase pressure being relieved through the breather will carry any of that out....and without a proper evac system, a good amount remains in the crankcase and re-condenses back to droplets that coat the internal engine parts as your motor cools down and it contaminates the oil. Every time you heat cycle you are adding more contamination and it is not very visible to just "look" at your oil....you need a professional analysis to see just what is accumulating in your oil and how it is breaking down its ability to protect...but the corrosion from the sulfuric acid is also very damaging over time (I'll try to post up some pics of parts showing just this in the near future). Just pull the dipstick on a diesel 20 miles after an oil change...it already "looks" black & dirty, but is still new and providing the proper protection. Sight is deceiving. Oil might look pretty clean or dirty but an analysis report will show destructive levels of contaminants.

And finally, some have gone so far as to cap off the entire system and run an open hose from each valve cover to near the ground. While this will eliminate all oil getting into the intake via the PCV system, the damage done by the hose with the least amount of air moving past it while at speed will suck dirt/sand/dust/water/and who knows what else directly into the motor via that valve cover. It may take some time (depending on how clean the roads you drive on are) but will result in premature engine wear & failure.

The solution for the street crowd is a properly designed, good functioning oil separating catchcan. Many are available on the market, but ONLY ones designed with internal baffling and a good distance separating the inlet from the outlet. Many of the cans seen for low prices on Ebay, etc. are great looking, but are nothing but empty cans with two fittings attached. Do your homework & get a full understanding before you make your selection.

Also, ANY container will collect oil....what really matters is how much actually still gets puled through the can you choose. To test any cans effectiveness simply pick up a clear glass inline fuel filter from any autoparts store ($8-12) and install it between your cans outlet and the intake manifold vacuum nipple. You will be amazed at how many allow a ton of oil to still get through and be ingested.

Remeber, NO il in the intake air charge is good and besides the buildup robbing power & hurting fuel economy....there is engine damage done over time. :thumbsup:

Jesse Asis

Way to go, The Bat Car, full explaination of oil, PCV issues... bottom line, get a catch can.....

SCM_Crash

Anyone use a double can setup? After I smog the car I think I'm going to ditch the single can setup for a dual can.