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Glad to hear you guys had relatively smooth dealings with them. I'm very anxious to see pics of them, hopefully right out of the box as well as installed. Godspeed!
Lots of interest here ( to date ) on wide fenders.. 400,000 views
With 400k views it just goes to show you that there is enough interest for a high quality set of fenders that don't need $2500.00 worth of bodywork and or 30 hours of adjustment to make them look right. With the huge availability of the C5 chassis, it's ground breaking design and major "wet dream" car of then young people that can now afford one, somebody in the aftermarket is really missing the boat on being able to supply quality front and rear flared fenders that fit without the huge drama. People would easily spend $2000.00 for a pair if it is proven that they fit and the quality is good.
There are very few cars in the world that can do what the C5 is capable of with minimal modifications for the price of entry. The power to weight aspect is a huge plus...most new economy cars weigh more a C5 does. This is going to make the C5 highly desirable for those that want a play toy to modify, track, race, show, etc.....the aftermarket should re-look at coming out with products to fulfill the demand that is obviously there.
With 400k views it just goes to show you that there is enough interest for a high quality set of fenders that don't need $2500.00 worth of bodywork and or 30 hours of adjustment to make them look right. With the huge availability of the C5 chassis, it's ground breaking design and major "wet dream" car of then young people that can now afford one, somebody in the aftermarket is really missing the boat on being able to supply quality front and rear flared fenders that fit without the huge drama. People would easily spend $2000.00 for a pair if it is proven that they fit and the quality is good.
There are very few cars in the world that can do what the C5 is capable of with minimal modifications for the price of entry. The power to weight aspect is a huge plus...most new economy cars weigh more a C5 does. This is going to make the C5 highly desirable for those that want a play toy to modify, track, race, show, etc.....the aftermarket should re-look at coming out with products to fulfill the demand that is obviously there.
I'm not sure you get it...for the most part C5's are in the 10 K dollar range. with 20 % higher and 20 % lower. The views here do not represent 400,000 different people but a few thousand viewing many times.. While you are lobbying for direct bolt on quarters, even the OEM quarters need to be shimmed at the factory. No One garage shop is willing to invest into a high quality composite quarter panel that is press molded like a factory quarter. an SMC heated pressure mold will cost in excess of 100, 000/ 150,000 dollars and that is just the mold not the actual Heated 150 ton press to mold the quarter which could cost in excess of 250K. You are not going to get a hand lay up process to replicate what an SMC composite mold does. The Investment GM made in the process was to get away from the nightmares of early on Fiberglass body panels where in 1953 had 90 % gel coat and 10 % fiber.. up into the 70's where the panel was 90 % fiber and 10 % gel coat. This present process insures repeatability, and no small shop can come close to making a panel that is of OEM quality because they do not have the financial resources.. Its the reason no one is making the MCM hood.. the process is too expensive. . And for no other reason. You see the issues with big Chinese shops who make millions of panels but do not have the same process and in most cases no quality control..
This is how it is through my very experienced eyes, and BTW I was the first person the family asked if I would want to take on the legacy of manufacturing the MCM hood. . .
Just some information on the reason why high quality products are expensive to recreate and few can compete with GM with financial resources.,
Well I would agree that $10k C5's are available but they are usually units needing some work,.......but there are tens of thousands of younger people that have bought $3000.00 Nissans, Honda's and Toyota's only to sink in ten times the purchase price of their cars on modifications. The JDM market has some very affordable parts and some very expensive parts......people buy them regardless. Go to any JDM car show if you don't believe me. So the 30 to 40 year old's of today are looking for a "JDM" replacement to play with....a lot of this has to do with the not wanting to look like a "Ricer" punk. The C5 fits that bill exactly. Parts are plentiful, there is a Chevy dealer on every corner and the car is fairly simple compared to German or Euro options.
The amount of money that is available right now that people spend on modifications and parts is incredible. Like I said above, go to any JDM show, Jeep gathering or full size turbo diesel pickup show or dyno days. There are 30 to 50 year old enthusiasts that will spend crazy amounts of money on their cars, toy, hobby, call it what you want. I had a customer today come by my shop and who told me that he spent $8k on a high performance auto transmission for his 2009 Dodge Cummins and didn't even blink about it. That doesn't includes the mods he has done to the engine, the lift kit, large tires, parts from me, etc. If this truck cost $40k new, he has put in at least $25k of mods or upgrades to it.....and it's not even his daily driver or work truck. This kid isn't even 35 years old! And he is not done yet.....plus he has a 5th wheel toy hauler with a sand rail, quads, etc.
Yes, there are some people that can't afford to modify a Vette correctly.....but there are a lot that have the money to buy stuff because they can. In the NorCal regional area of this forum, one forum member claims he spent $4000.00 to have a set of L5 rear quarters painted and installed on his car (he probably paid too much). But he did pay it.
I know nothing of fiberglass manufacturing.....but I did have a lengthy talk with Bruce Meyers of the Meyers Manx dune buggy fame about 12 years ago. He built all those original dune buggy bodies himself when he first started. He was in the marine boating field working on sailboats, etc. Fixing fiberglass boats was his trade after WWII. When we were talking about who was best to work on fiberglass body panels he said if he was to do it today he'd go to Florida since there is so much yachting and boat building there. If you need skilled craftsmen to build body panels your not going to find better quality than what people do in the marine industry. So can it be done here in the USA the "old fashioned" way......I would venture to say yes. And I'm not even thinking about a carbon fiber version that may be even easier to build correctly......I just don't know much about that medium. Maybe that is a better and more economical way to build fenders.
I can promise you one thing....in the USA if you build it they will come.....if you build it correctly they will buy it. The market potential here is just too big with too much money out there.
People spend $2400.00 on LG drop spindles, $3000.00 on coilovers, $8000.00 on superchargers, etc.....often starting with $10k C5. Don't forget that the lower price of entry on a C5 allows the owner to spend more money on their dream modifications.
Well I would agree that $10k C5's are available but they are usually units needing some work,.......but there are tens of thousands of younger people that have bought $3000.00 Nissans, Honda's and Toyota's only to sink in ten times the purchase price of their cars on modifications. The JDM market has some very affordable parts and some very expensive parts......people buy them regardless. Go to any JDM car show if you don't believe me. So the 30 to 40 year old's of today are looking for a "JDM" replacement to play with....a lot of this has to do with the not wanting to look like a "Ricer" punk. The C5 fits that bill exactly. Parts are plentiful, there is a Chevy dealer on every corner and the car is fairly simple compared to German or Euro options.
The amount of money that is available right now that people spend on modifications and parts is incredible. Like I said above, go to any JDM show, Jeep gathering or full size turbo diesel pickup show or dyno days. There are 30 to 50 year old enthusiasts that will spend crazy amounts of money on their cars, toy, hobby, call it what you want. I had a customer today come by my shop and who told me that he spent $8k on a high performance auto transmission for his 2009 Dodge Cummins and didn't even blink about it. That doesn't includes the mods he has done to the engine, the lift kit, large tires, parts from me, etc. If this truck cost $40k new, he has put in at least $25k of mods or upgrades to it.....and it's not even his daily driver or work truck. This kid isn't even 35 years old! And he is not done yet.....plus he has a 5th wheel toy hauler with a sand rail, quads, etc.
Yes, there are some people that can't afford to modify a Vette correctly.....but there are a lot that have the money to buy stuff because they can. In the NorCal regional area of this forum, one forum member claims he spent $4000.00 to have a set of L5 rear quarters painted and installed on his car (he probably paid too much). But he did pay it.
I know nothing of fiberglass manufacturing.....but I did have a lengthy talk with Bruce Meyers of the Meyers Manx dune buggy fame about 12 years ago. He built all those original dune buggy bodies himself when he first started. He was in the marine boating field working on sailboats, etc. Fixing fiberglass boats was his trade after WWII. When we were talking about who was best to work on fiberglass body panels he said if he was to do it today he'd go to Florida since there is so much yachting and boat building there. If you need skilled craftsmen to build body panels your not going to find better quality than what people do in the marine industry. So can it be done here in the USA the "old fashioned" way......I would venture to say yes. And I'm not even thinking about a carbon fiber version that may be even easier to build correctly......I just don't know much about that medium. Maybe that is a better and more economical way to build fenders.
I can promise you one thing....in the USA if you build it they will come.....if you build it correctly they will buy it. The market potential here is just too big with too much money out there.
People spend $2400.00 on LG drop spindles, $3000.00 on coilovers, $8000.00 on superchargers, etc.....often starting with $10k C5. Don't forget that the lower price of entry on a C5 allows the owner to spend more money on their dream modifications.
While you ramble on, you still dont get it. This forum is full of Corvette enthusiast. I mentioned a high quality part.. a MCM hood.. I am very familiar with this part and its manufacturing process Everyone wants one.. The molds are in the hands of a very reputable vendor here. No one will pay the cost necessary to make a profit ( 3000 dollars ) No one is going to buy direct bolt on quarters for 3 grand.. No One. Its the reason no one is making THE MCM hood. ,Are there people willing to spend crazy money on parts? sure there is no doubt, but not enough to justify manufacturing. IN many cases it take 100 or 200 sales to just break even on these parts. Many vendors are willing to sell product at cost just to get their start up money back. Pete has ten grand invested in the rear duck bill fascia// if he makes 100 dollars on a unit he has to sell the first 100 to break even. He hasn't come close to selling 100 units. He is almost giving them away. Vendors take big risks in manufacturing big ticket items, they do marketing research, cost to manufacture studies and roll the dice on whether they can sell enough product to make a profit. Its the reason no one is making high quality direct bolt on rear quarters .for a C5 corvette.. For the most part the panels that are available and fit poorly can be modified for a lot less than 3000 dollars.. Its obvious that many people here have done just that..
Speaking of rambling on, we get it Bill,......you've made your point clear over and over again. It is too expensive to make quality products. It is too hard to make quality fiberglass products. Nobody will spend $3000 on a MCM hood. Nobody will spend $2000.00 dollars on a set of fenders that actually fit and don't get you laughed out of a body shop's premises. You've made your point and you're correct. It costs money to build quality products. And apparently your point of view is Corvette owners either can't afford quality or are too cheap to pony up the dollars. Jesus, when was the last time you've walked the floor at SEMA or PRI? Seriously, you don't get what people are doing these days. Just look at the Optima Challenge and the cars people bring to that event. They'll start out with a modest car that you wouldn't even look at twice when stock and then spends ungodly amounts of money to make it custom, fast, competitive and cool.
If you don't think people would buy $3000.00 MCM hoods that were "MARKETED" correctly as having perfect fit, quality construction, are DOT safe and better than anything else on the market, then you really are out of touch. Do you not see that people are putting $5000.00 worth of rims on a $15000.00 Corvette? The market for unique and quality products is there. People will pay for it. Go to any car show or HPDE track day and see what people are spending on their Corvettes (and other models). It is a huge business.
I'll continue my rambling (kind of a disrespectful thing to say since I was only giving potential real world solutions and experience on selling automotive accessories) and I'll summarize what this long running thread really boils down to IN MY OPINION.
1. The desire for a wide body C5 via fenders is obviously there. With 400,000 views, you can see people are coming back hoping that some company or person has come through with an answer that doesn't become a giant headache after you've spent your money and have your fenders at the body shop. The Corvette nation has hope that there will be a solution that is viable and not a FUBAR situation.
2. The Vendors here that have supplied the wide fenders are a major part of this issue as to why these fenders are failing to be able to be sold at a profit with quality. From this thread and others I have gathered the following information. Vendors, if I'm wrong, please correct me:
L5 Fenders......horror stories of people paying their money and getting nothing in regards to fenders or communication for unreasonable amounts of time. Bordering on criminal and fraudulent business practices. They appear to make their own fenders. The quality seems to jump around a bit....right side might be good but the left side might need major work or both fenders arrive and are great. Roll of the dice. It appears some people have bought from them recently and product was shipped in a timely fashion. Let's hope L5 gets their **** together and continues this better business practice.
TPE Fenders.......again major lack of communication, appears to be a guy that has a "real" job but does the fender stuff on the side and not a top priority. Appears that the fenders are made by RKSport for TPE. Quality of fit seems to be all over the place.
Corvette Creations/Pete......Pete appears to be a stand up guy, usually jumps in on threads to help answer forum questions, appears to care about the product and customer. Appears that his parts are made by Extreme Dimensions. Regarding the fiberglass products, quality is very iffy and the units need a lot of work. Bad overall reputation on fitment regarding the fiberglass fenders. The carbon fiber fenders seem to fit better and would be the ones I'd pick if dealing with CC/Pete.
Bill (Evil Twin) states that Pete is having a hard time selling the great looking duckbill rear bumpers and is literally giving them away. I think too many Corvette guys have doubts in a bumper that comes folded in half when shipped to you. They don't understand the urethane product and there hasn't been any marketing or youtube videos explaining how this urethane works, what it looks like after it's set in the sun, how to install and shim, etc. Again, a great looking product that could easily sell for $1000.00 but there needs to be some time and effort put into the marketing of this product. You can't expect a potential buyer to have to wait for the product to be sold to a customer and have to wait for that customer to install the product and give his review of it. Love him or hate him, Lou at LG Motorsports puts out some pretty decent marketing video's explaining why his coilovers are safe, why his monoballs are better than rubber bushings, etc. Marketing involves taking the time to expose your product, install your product, show your product being installed on video's, etc. Waiting for a set of fenders to be sold to a customer and hope he does a review is not the best marketing IMO.
The one thing I see from all three of the above vendors is they are not in the business of selling Corvette parts full time. The all have other gigs going on and the Corvette biz is either a sideline or a hobby. This is never going to work and the only way to compete in getting any market share is selling the products "cheap" so you stay in the game. Unfortunately, there is no way to sell something cheap and make a quality product with any service to back it. We have three companies above that have proven this point.
Many companies strive to supply the best quality, best service and best price to their customers. But to stay in business it can only pick two of the three as trying to do all three is a recipe for failure. Somebody needs to step up and offer quality and service......there is definitely market share for them to profit in.
To the three vendors above, if I quoted ANY information that is not correct please jump in here and let us know and I'll edit my post immediately. My information is gathered from this thread and the multiple other threads and posts on this forum concerning wide fenders, bumpers, etc.
I guess if you want to add one to the list; although they aren’t super wide at a “ one inch” flare . - the Vettenuts fenders.
Fantastic communication, immediate shipment and built off of an existing OEM fender to ensure 100% perfect fit.
I agree with you on the units, I've look at them and the only downfall is there aren't very wide. They are extremely tasteful and flow with the lines of the car great but some guys want that more dramatic look. But the quality, fit, finish and customer service is very good IMO. And they are a full time Corvette business which is a plus.
06-07-2018, 08:16 PM
