topkart43

I have a brand new Livernois 408 stroker and have a reputable shop here in Kansas City working on the install. Last Friday they were installing the passenger side head they had about four studs installed when one of the long studs broke off in the block. I called ARP that day and they said they would send me a new and I would get it the next day since the car had been entered in a show for Saturday.
Well after pulling off the passenger side head the broken stud is so far in the block that neither the shop it's at now or another shop, along with a machine shop here in Kansas City want to touch it due to the risk involved in damaging the new motor and being responsible for it.
With it being the weekend ARP was closed. Today I called ARP and they were helpful at first by sending me a new stud last Friday, but that was before we knew how deep the broken one was in the block. ARP is telling me that they sent me a new stud what more do I want along how to get it out which I know how to do and so do all the shop, the problem is no shop wants to take on the risk of damaging a brand new motor and being held responsible for it.
I understand they sent me a new stud but what good is a new stud if I can't get the old one out. I'm upset with ARP because when I call them they immediately make it sound as if it's my fault or the shops fault that the stud literally sheared into two pieces, not the hourglass break they were trying to tell me happened from over torquing. I have the stud in hand and 4 studs were already in and this one wasn't even torqued down all the way yet. ARP then asked what kind of motor it was and where I got it, and I told them Livernois built it and I ordered the studs to come with the motor. They then said oh well Livernois builds good motors but did they send you the studs in our ARP box and I send yes I have all the receipts, everything is brand new.

Has anybody had this problem or solutions or suggestion? I'm totally lost on what to do, and a little upset with how ARP is telling me it's not their fault a brand new stud for a brand new motor broke. I'm located in Kansas City so if anyone knows a place around here that has confidence in doing this please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt

Trios

It's not on ARP's hands. You say that no shop wants to touch the motor for fear of screwing it up; you seem to be forgetting that it was in a shop getting the heads torqued down when the stud broke.

Whichever shop broke the stud needs to take ownership and get it fixed. If that same shop bought the ARP studs, then that shop should take *complete* ownership and charge you $0 extra due to the stud breaking. If you supplied the ARP studs, then I could see them charging you extra because the studs you provided were faulty, but only if they don't want a repeat customer out of you.

It's not ARP's 'fault' per se. The limitation of liability on their end is replacing the faulty part.

topkart43

Ok that's what I'm wondering, because the shop is telling me to talk to ARP and ARP is telling me it's out of their hands. I'm just wondering if this is something I'm going to have to eat, because both are saying it's the others fault and I'm in the middle trying to sort it out, and really don't know how to go about it. Is there any particular way I can determine if the stud was installed incorrectly?

Jeff T.

I hate to say it but it sounds like something that's going to get messy... I agree with Trios that the shop doing the work should have responsibility. I'm not a lawyer, but the supplier of the bolts, you or the shop, could enter into this.

I hope you can get this repaired and sorted out.

topkart43

Me too!! I just want to drive and enjoy the car it's been awhile since I've driven it.

Vetteman Jack

Unfortunately, that's most likely the way this is going to go down. Hope you can find someone that has the skills to get the broken stud out of the motor.

Trios

Who bought the studs, you or the shop?

If the shop bought the studs and installed the studs, the shop needs to eat all the costs.

If you bought the studs and provided them to the shop, then the only way you're likely to get the shop to eat the costs is if you can prove it was installed improperly. the only way to know that is to take it out, however that's going to happen (weld something onto the end of it? some sort of easy-out style thing?). If, for example, there's a bit of oil under the stud or it's cross-threaded or something, then you'd have a case against the shop.

Best of luck, but this sounds like it'll probably be rough.

grantv

I work at a machine shop and understand most not wanting to get involved at this stage. Here's $50 of work to perform a stud extraction on an expensive motor somebody else is getting paid the big $ and yet can't help you on this problem. No thanks.
It's not a fun job, but I'm thinking your engine shop should be capable. Just my opinion.

topkart43

Thank again for your assistance and input guys.

I bought the studs new from Livernois when I had build my motor and then used my original heads I had the shop port and polish along with install.

neutron82

I say it's the shops responsibility... did you watch the person break the stud?... if not they can tell you anything they want but they are the only ones that know the truth... what if the torque wrench was improperly set or out of calibration?... something like that would not be arp's fault

leadfoot4

I agree with what your saying, but just want to add something, based on what I think the OP said. If I understand correctly, he stated that they were installing the studs, at the point one broke. To the best of my knowledge, studs don't get "torqued" to any degree, if at all. They pretty much go in "hand tight", then the nuts get torqued, when the heads are installed.

It appears that either A) the installed didn't insure the "blind holes" the studs screw into were clean; B) the threads of that particular hole weren't perfect; C) the stud it self was defective; D) a combination of the above.

Think about it....a head stud is designed to contain the force of combustion. Is certainly should be able to withstand the force of screwing into a tapped hole.....

norcalace

If ARP felt no responsibility why did they provide a new stud? If you broke a water pump ear installing it do you think the parts store would give you a new one? An inspection of the broken end by a metallurgist should tell whether or not the stud was faulty. ARP does random testing of its fasteners but they can't check them all and a faulty one can get out on occasion. As stated before installing studs is usually a finger pressure install. If the threads galled and the installer chose to "muscle" it in and broke it, which I think is highly unlikely given the strength of these fasteners, the shop would be responsible. My money is on a faulty stud. I do hope it all turns out ok for you.

73Corvette

A reputable shop should have insurance... they were installing the part when it, (the stud) either failed or they broke it. I would say either way it's on their nickel... if, they can prove to ARP or come to some agreement with them on liability that's between them. I would hold the shops feet to the fire, and insist they make it right... Good luck sorry your having to deal with it at all...

dadaroo

How many threads are above the broken stud? You may have enough to insert a stud above it and still develop the joint strength needed. You don't need many threads to get to the full load ability. In steel 4 or 5 should do it. Remember the nuts don't have much more. However I know the block is alloy aluminum but is should be pretty strong stuff.

You may have to cut the new stud down some. Applying Locktite on the stud threads would be a good idea also.

ARP should tell you how many threads should do it. I don't have enough info at this time to do the calculation. I have done somewhat similar calcs before.

Personally I think it was a defect in the stud. An inclusion or stress crack from the manufacturing. A picture of the broken stud would be nice to see.

Hope you can get it worked out. I would try the above long before I just tried to leave no fastener in that location.

Might want to contact Forum member Evil-Twin with a PM. He was an engineer on the engine design team and could weigh in on the amount of threads that you should need.

STALION

Have the shop drill the bolt and use a removal bit to get it out it's that simple, or at least it should be.

T-TOP TOM

If the shop had about four studs installed then the fifth one broke it sounds like the shop didn't install the fifth one correctly. It is my understanding that the studs don't get torqued but the nut that goes on the stud does.

73Corvette