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Maybe I am blind in my old age, but the 19 and 20's are dramatically different. those rubber bands are just waiting for a pot whole to bend those unsupported wheels, or break those inner tire bands as they compress to the rim on impact.
Just putting it all out there.. A picture is worth a thousands words..
This was a great post to show comparison. So what is the widest and tallest combination that can be put on the stock 17/18 wheels???
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
ere are the stock C5 corvette 17 and 18's
Here are the 19 and 20's on C5 Corvette firments.
Maybe I am blind in my old age, but the 19 and 20's are dramatically different. those rubber bands are just waiting for a pot whole to bend those unsupported wheels, or break those inner tire bands as they compress to the rim on impact.
Just putting it all out there.. A picture is worth a thousands words..
Maybe I am blind in my old age, but the 19 and 20's are dramatically different. those rubber bands are just waiting for a pot whole to bend those unsupported wheels, or break those inner tire bands as they compress to the rim on impact.
Just putting it all out there.. A picture is worth a thousands words..
Bill aka ET
I don't think it's your old age, some people will make major performance sacrifices for aesthetics and some... just want to make changes period. There are a lot of myths in performance driving, one is that a larger tire print is always a good thing. Another is that the more neutral a car is balanced, the better it will corner. Both of those concepts are often true, but definitely not always true.
Swapping your rims for significantly different sizes will alter cornering characteristics quite a bit, and should never be done without attention being paid to sway bars and spring rates (which is problematic without going to coilovers). Your traction control will also always be configured incorrectly if you change the ratios of your tire sizes. So basically this should only be done with good reason and you may not like the results. It isn't just the bad ride characteristics which Bill mentioned, there will be a lot you will need to tune out in cornering with suspension changes if you want to maintain your car's handling capabilities.
For a little scale, to swap an Honda S2000's wheel stagger to a square tire setup, you need a much thinner rear sway bar, and a thicker front sway bar. It's a small wheel stagger in the case of the S2000, the C5's is MUCH larger. Not making the sway bar changes results in a car which has almost no rear grip in corners (due to going to larger, grippier tires in the front, and the stock rear sway bar limiting the ability of the rear wheels to dig in). I have a friend who configures their ND Miata in this way way, but it's because he's a poor technical driver, who's into Miatas because he enjoys lateral G forces and its a very forgiving car.
Anyone with performance concerns should be aware of what Bill mentioned, but also very concerned with re-tuning their suspension. A C5 is an incredibly stable platform, I started out in small roadsters and I feel like you can't really slide or throw a C5 without trying pretty hard or just laying down your throttle. Swapping wheels without suspension tuning means you really will have a fiberglass coffin on your hands, it may look amazing, but be careful what you do with it!
PS: All of this applies to swapping C6 Z06 suspension components onto your car too. The only reason it's relatively safe, is that the C6 basically is a facelift C5 and the motion ratios and weight barely changed. Getting your suspension/wheel setup right means faster acceleration, better cornering and a generally better performing car. The opposite is also true and the cause of many Corvette Fail vids.
some people will make major performance sacrifices for aesthetics
Swapping your rims for significantly different sizes will alter cornering characteristics quite a bit, and should never be done without attention being paid to sway bars and spring rates
Of course. However, you are assuming that the same people who are installing extremely low-profile tires on their cars are using the same tires in a non-street performance application. I don't think anyone running 19/20" tires expects maximum grip from them, nor are they likely to even drive with those tires on a race track. Low-profile tires are fine for "spirited" street driving and daily commuting. Anyone who actually track races their car will obviously have a set of track-specific wheels and tires. If they choose to use the same wheels and tires for street and for track, then, by all means, opt for 17" or 18" options.
Your traction control will also always be configured incorrectly if you change the ratios of your tire sizes
Incorrect. Maintaining the proper front-to-rear overall diameter stagger is what is important. Your traction control and active handing does not care what aspect ratio your tires are.
My personal experience (yours may vary), as a regional sales rep for one of the country's largest aftermarket wheel manufacturers and performance tire distributors, and as an owner of a 19/20" equipped and very lowered C5 Z06:
If you want to run 19/20" wheels/tires on your Corvette, go for it. Is ride quality sacrificed? Sure. Your ride will be firmer. Unbearable? Absolutely not. Is handling and traction sacrificed? That depends. Do you drive like a moron on the street, Fast & Furious style? If so, then yes, your maximum performance will suffer. You shouldn't be driving like an imbecile anyway. If you drive like any other intelligent performance car enthusiast on the street, with the occasional "spirited" stoplight pulls and occasional on-ramp blasts, then you will be just fine. But...but...but...potholes? Yes, having shorter sidewalls increases the chance of damage from hitting potholes. Here is a tip: Don't hit potholes. Open your eyes. Pay attention. You should be driving around them, regardless of your tire selection. I put an average of 7000 miles per year on a very modified, very lowered, 19/20" equipped Z06, driven on rural and suburban Chicago area roads and traffic-laden expressways. Some of the worst roads in the nation. No tire damage. No wheel damage. How is that possible? Because I am situationally aware. I know I am not driving my Escalade. I am driving my Corvette. I am always looking out for potholes, road kill, speed bumps, sharp driveway angles, tall curbs, etc.
And remember, several years ago, people using 15/16" tires were making all the same claims to people running 17/18" tires. Yet, here you guys are...
To the OP, hopefully your question regarding which 19/20" tire sizes to choose for the 19/20" wheels you already purchased has been answered. Good luck with your decision.
Of course. However, you are assuming that the same people who are installing extremely low-profile tires on their cars are using the same tires in a non-street performance application. I don't think anyone running 19/20" tires expects maximum grip from them, nor are they likely to even drive with those tires on a race track. Low-profile tires are fine for "spirited" street driving and daily commuting. Anyone who actually track races their car will obviously have a set of track-specific wheels and tires. If they choose to use the same wheels and tires for street and for track, then, by all means, opt for 17" or 18" options.
Incorrect. Maintaining the proper front-to-rear overall diameter stagger is what is important. Your traction control and active handing does not care what aspect ratio your tires are.
My personal experience (yours may vary), as a regional sales rep for one of the country's largest aftermarket wheel manufacturers and performance tire distributors, and as an owner of a 19/20" equipped and very lowered C5 Z06:
If you want to run 19/20" wheels/tires on your Corvette, go for it. Is ride quality sacrificed? Sure. Your ride will be firmer. Unbearable? Absolutely not. Is handling and traction sacrificed? That depends. Do you drive like a moron on the street, Fast & Furious style? If so, then yes, your maximum performance will suffer. You shouldn't be driving like an imbecile anyway. If you drive like any other intelligent performance car enthusiast on the street, with the occasional "spirited" stoplight pulls and occasional on-ramp blasts, then you will be just fine. But...but...but...potholes? Yes, having shorter sidewalls increases the chance of damage from hitting potholes. Here is a tip: Don't hit potholes. Open your eyes. Pay attention. You should be driving around them, regardless of your tire selection. I put an average of 7000 miles per year on a very modified, very lowered, 19/20" equipped Z06, driven on rural and suburban Chicago area roads and traffic-laden expressways. Some of the worst roads in the nation. No tire damage. No wheel damage. How is that possible? Because I am situationally aware. I know I am not driving my Escalade. I am driving my Corvette. I am always looking out for potholes, road kill, speed bumps, sharp driveway angles, tall curbs, etc.
And remember, several years ago, people using 15/16" tires were making all the same claims to people running 17/18" tires. Yet, here you guys are...
To the OP, hopefully your question regarding which 19/20" tire sizes to choose for the 19/20" wheels you already purchased has been answered. Good luck with your decision.
I like plenty of tire between my wheel and the road. I have been in a few cars that rode like a buck board cause someone thought it looked cool to use big wheels and rubber band tires. I am a car dealer and they show up at the sale all the time and they are never without rash and bent wheels. It is all about what you like, I like driving my corvette and if it would be even better if it rode softer. After several days of researching and studying all the options, I am staying with the 17/18. I went out today and done a 125 or so miles and it was a great reminder to think softer and not harder for me, but I am old and have different taste and style of use than most of the guys. I am just happy there is so much passion about cars these days !!! I think there will continue to be sufficient choices for C5 Z06 tires so staying stock.
If you're afraid of potholes maybe you should drive this...
And the OP isn't looking for recommendations for what size wheels to buy.
He bought 19/20's, If you're afraid of running them that's your own prerogative.
If I bent one of mine I could afford to repair or replace it, I didn't buy my c5 to drive over potholes or for the comfort. If I were looking for that I'd buy a Cts-v
Last edited by hatewhatownsyou; 02-26-2017 at 05:43 PM.
I like plenty of tire between my wheel and the road. I have been in a few cars that rode like a buck board cause someone thought it looked cool to use big wheels and rubber band tires. I am a car dealer and they show up at the sale all the time and they are never without rash and bent wheels. It is all about what you like, I like driving my corvette and if it would be even better if it rode softer. After several days of researching and studying all the options, I am staying with the 17/18. I went out today and done a 125 or so miles and it was a great reminder to think softer and not harder for me, but I am old and have different taste and style of use than most of the guys. I am just happy there is so much passion about cars these days !!! I think there will continue to be sufficient choices for C5 Z06 tires so staying stock.
" EVERYTHING is a trade off from the original design. " those 40 aspect tires can take a C5 down the road comfortably.. putting 3200 lbs on 25 aspect ratio tires is like putting an old man on a Harley 58 pan head hard tail.
ask me how I know. Not so old in this shot with my wife 45 years ago
Makes me wonder what those new Chevrolet engineers were thinking when the put 18/19 combo on the C7 and 19/20 combo on the C7 Z06.
I agree !!! makes no sense for cars that 99.5 % spend their time driving down roads and .05% of them are sliding around a race track somewhere. Makes me wonder too. I guess this new generating just likes the look enough to compromise on ride quality.
Moving from 17/18 to 19/20 doesn't preserve the TC/AH ratios. 1.059 vs. 1.052 front to rear ratios aren't the same, the change just is small enough that it will only cause problems under certain situations, but that's exactly why it's potentially problematic (usually heavily modified cars simply disable it completely, but people who want to preserve traction control for rainy days on crossover cars can experience a lot of issues). As far as the comments about larger wheels on newer generations, the cars were designed for it.
It's not that larger tires can't be done, it's that you're dealing with the physical dimensions of the car (which are less easily changed than on most cars, since you can't roll composite plastic fenders). Larger fender wells mean that you can use larger rims with properly sized tires. I was cautioning about the issues which can arise from people putting much larger rims onto a car without doing the suspension work, because it's very common and potentially dangerous. There's also a huge difference between ride quality, associated with stiff/soft suspension and ride quality associated with tires being too rigid to properly remove high frequency vibrations from the chassis.
I mentioned I have a friend who tunes their 2016 miata to essentially all front grip in corners, that's what you accomplish squaring the tires on a C5 (this is also brought up a lot in rim conversations). However you probably wouldn't want to do something like that because a Corvette in sweepers and corners will lose traction on the rear tires when putting down power. So extensive modifications are needed to make a C5 with square tires to actually handle well, let alone better than stock. I've seen people make poorly planned modifications to their cars and then go sliding all over a track, so I tend to caution people to look at their suspension when they start to mod. I suppose it's better to stand back and point after the fact?
At the end of the day, proper tires, wheels and suspension mean much better overall performance. No, not everyone cares about maintaining grip and effective cornering, but it can also be a safety concern. It's not particularly fun to drive a car with badly modified suspension. However, I also am the type of person who keeps her car looking mostly stock externally, it really helps for avoiding speeding tickets!
Moving from 17/18 to 19/20 doesn't preserve the TC/AH ratios. 1.059 vs. 1.052 front to rear ratios aren't the same
Again, you have not given any tire size information to be considered in your calculation. Wheel diameter has nothing to do with the ratio. Overall tire diameter does.
people who want to preserve traction control for rainy days on crossover cars can experience a lot of issues
As someone who has driven frequently in rainy conditions in a modified Z06 equipped with 19/20" wheels and tires, I can attest to the contrary. I never had any issues with the traction control or the active handling of the car in either dry or wet conditions. It always functioned as it should have. When the overall diameter of the tires falls within the threshold of the acceptable front-to-rear height ratio, everything is just dandy. Period.
Makes me wonder what those new Chevrolet engineers were thinking when the put 18/19 combo on the C7 and 19/20 combo on the C7 Z06.
LOL. I was being facetious, pretty sure those C7's handle quite well with those combos. Take a look at any new high performance car and you will see low profile tires. Lets get out of the dark ages! 19/19 CCW T-10's for me. Like the look and the handling.
Makes me wonder what those new Chevrolet engineers were thinking when the put 18/19 combo on the C7 and 19/20 combo on the C7 Z06.
Exactly, one thing that always bothered me on forums is the fear mongering gossipers that keep pushing the idea that going with a slightly larger wheel will cause your car to stop working properly.
In most cases you end up with even better handling, a slightly firmer ride, and a much better look.
Most high end cars are now coming stock with 19's and 20's.
" Everything is a trade off : from the original design. Gm engineers went to 18 and 19, to appeal to change in a NEW GENERATION corvette.,.. the 18/19 will give a harsher ride ( the trade off ) for slightly better lateral performance. Tire sidewall impact and wheel strength integrity was thoroughly tested. Pushing wheel diameter requires higher quality wheels. But the increase in diameter and the decrease in aspect ratio will impact the ride quality. People who never track their car will be happier with a higher sidewall since this will offer a better ride. The " LOOK " is very subjective.. In my eye, those rubber band tires look like the horses ***. Looks like a ?fast and furious" ricer. " Just my opinion.
I didn't mind the stiff ride, and it was a bit harder for me to get the larger wheels lose on a take off, but I think that is due to the difference between the Hankooks and Bridgestones. Thenew tires and wheels are definitely less stiff, and I've come to enjoy the ride.
I just always wanted to have Alcoas to go with my 01 Z06. And also, those GFG theee piece wheels are leaking too much, and I figured, right now, I'd pay for some Alcoas instead of getting the GFGs refinished and sealed. BTW, PM me if you want those too .
02-26-2017, 11:25 AM
Not much difference in the side wall ?
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