[Z06] worth upgrading to 3.9 or 4.10 C5 Z06?
05-01-2017, 09:17 PM
#21
OP: I posted my experiences of putting in 4.10's here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-vararam.html
Hope you find this thread helpful. Long story short, the internet can only inform you so much. Corvettes are 100% visceral: find someone who has 4.10's, buy them lunch, ask to take their car for a quick row thru the gears on nice road. You have to experience it firsthand in order to make a reasoned decision. Would be happy to let you do that in my car as a fellow northeast Corvette brother, but my car is enjoying sunshine at the moment in sunny FL. Sorry!
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-vararam.html
Hope you find this thread helpful. Long story short, the internet can only inform you so much. Corvettes are 100% visceral: find someone who has 4.10's, buy them lunch, ask to take their car for a quick row thru the gears on nice road. You have to experience it firsthand in order to make a reasoned decision. Would be happy to let you do that in my car as a fellow northeast Corvette brother, but my car is enjoying sunshine at the moment in sunny FL. Sorry!
Last edited by SLO VETTE; 05-01-2017 at 09:18 PM.
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Chuck CoW (05-01-2017)
05-02-2017, 10:37 AM
#22
Racer
Thread Starter
I agree with Justin but my 'experience' is strictly "academic"--that is to say, I don't have any H/C/I + 4.10 experience. I did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that for my needs and situation adding 4.10s was the best option. There are lots of advisories that adding 4.10s to an H/C/I set up will almost omit the use of first gear; the combination is just too torquey to make the gear useful since tire spin will be problematic. This was my situation: I only had bolt-ons when I added 4.10s --just LT headers, Calloway Honker CAI and Chuck CoW tune.
I waited until the clutch died and replaced it with a McLeod RST, new slave, TOB, etc., add a Lwt flywheel (@12lb), had the torque tube bushings replaced and an RPM 4.10 box installed all at the same time. (The entire drivetrain has to come out anyway to service the clutch, so the labor to R&R the differential was "free".)
I did a gear swap instead of an H/C/I because I didn't want to commit to having to trust any (regionally well-known) speed shop to get the H/C/I combination and accompanying required tune correct the first time. There are so many stories and queries in our Tech/Performance section of each model Corvette about "my H/C/I installation doesn't run right; how do I fix it?" that I was leery that closest "local" speed shop (250 miles away) would/could get the correct combination of heads, cam, intakes, and tune configured correctly in one attempt, that I chose the brain-dead option of R&R'ing an RPM gearbox.
If all you ever do is swap the rear gears, nothing else in the drivetrain or the electronics (BCM) needs alteration. That's another benefit if gears are a consideration.
RomanNYC, I forgot to add... I don't remember where, but I saw a thread somewhere listing "best 1/4 times" sorted by add-ons. Someone using drag radials with my exact bolt-ons (except no Lwt Flywheel) posted he did an 11.4 qtr. I dunno if that's "fantasy" or not. I'm sure mine would be easily <12sec. in qtr, but I don't know if it's "11.4-fast".
I waited until the clutch died and replaced it with a McLeod RST, new slave, TOB, etc., add a Lwt flywheel (@12lb), had the torque tube bushings replaced and an RPM 4.10 box installed all at the same time. (The entire drivetrain has to come out anyway to service the clutch, so the labor to R&R the differential was "free".)
I did a gear swap instead of an H/C/I because I didn't want to commit to having to trust any (regionally well-known) speed shop to get the H/C/I combination and accompanying required tune correct the first time. There are so many stories and queries in our Tech/Performance section of each model Corvette about "my H/C/I installation doesn't run right; how do I fix it?" that I was leery that closest "local" speed shop (250 miles away) would/could get the correct combination of heads, cam, intakes, and tune configured correctly in one attempt, that I chose the brain-dead option of R&R'ing an RPM gearbox.
If all you ever do is swap the rear gears, nothing else in the drivetrain or the electronics (BCM) needs alteration. That's another benefit if gears are a consideration.
RomanNYC, I forgot to add... I don't remember where, but I saw a thread somewhere listing "best 1/4 times" sorted by add-ons. Someone using drag radials with my exact bolt-ons (except no Lwt Flywheel) posted he did an 11.4 qtr. I dunno if that's "fantasy" or not. I'm sure mine would be easily <12sec. in qtr, but I don't know if it's "11.4-fast".
05-02-2017, 10:38 AM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
OP: I posted my experiences of putting in 4.10's here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-vararam.html
Hope you find this thread helpful. Long story short, the internet can only inform you so much. Corvettes are 100% visceral: find someone who has 4.10's, buy them lunch, ask to take their car for a quick row thru the gears on nice road. You have to experience it firsthand in order to make a reasoned decision. Would be happy to let you do that in my car as a fellow northeast Corvette brother, but my car is enjoying sunshine at the moment in sunny FL. Sorry!
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-vararam.html
Hope you find this thread helpful. Long story short, the internet can only inform you so much. Corvettes are 100% visceral: find someone who has 4.10's, buy them lunch, ask to take their car for a quick row thru the gears on nice road. You have to experience it firsthand in order to make a reasoned decision. Would be happy to let you do that in my car as a fellow northeast Corvette brother, but my car is enjoying sunshine at the moment in sunny FL. Sorry!
05-02-2017, 02:31 PM
#24
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
4.10s in a C5 or C6 stick car...
I agree with Justin but my 'experience' is strictly "academic"--that is to say, I don't have any H/C/I + 4.10 experience. I did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that for my needs and situation adding 4.10s was the best option. There are lots of advisories that adding 4.10s to an H/C/I set up will almost omit the use of first gear; the combination is just too torquey to make the gear useful since tire spin will be problematic. This was my situation: I only had bolt-ons when I added 4.10s --just LT headers, Calloway Honker CAI and Chuck CoW tune.
I waited until the clutch died and replaced it with a McLeod RST, new slave, TOB, etc., add a Lwt flywheel (@12lb), had the torque tube bushings replaced and an RPM 4.10 box installed all at the same time. (The entire drivetrain has to come out anyway to service the clutch, so the labor to R&R the differential was "free".)
I did a gear swap instead of an H/C/I because I didn't want to commit to having to trust any (regionally well-known) speed shop to get the H/C/I combination and accompanying required tune correct the first time. There are so many stories and queries in our Tech/Performance section of each model Corvette about "my H/C/I installation doesn't run right; how do I fix it?" that I was leery that closest "local" speed shop (250 miles away) would/could get the correct combination of heads, cam, intakes, and tune configured correctly in one attempt, that I chose the brain-dead option of R&R'ing an RPM gearbox.
If all you ever do is swap the rear gears, nothing else in the drivetrain or the electronics (BCM) needs alteration. That's another benefit if gears are a consideration.
RomanNYC, I forgot to add... I don't remember where, but I saw a thread somewhere listing "best 1/4 times" sorted by add-ons. Someone using drag radials with my exact bolt-ons (except no Lwt Flywheel) posted he did an 11.4 qtr. I dunno if that's "fantasy" or not. I'm sure mine would be easily <12sec. in qtr, but I don't know if it's "11.4-fast".
I waited until the clutch died and replaced it with a McLeod RST, new slave, TOB, etc., add a Lwt flywheel (@12lb), had the torque tube bushings replaced and an RPM 4.10 box installed all at the same time. (The entire drivetrain has to come out anyway to service the clutch, so the labor to R&R the differential was "free".)
I did a gear swap instead of an H/C/I because I didn't want to commit to having to trust any (regionally well-known) speed shop to get the H/C/I combination and accompanying required tune correct the first time. There are so many stories and queries in our Tech/Performance section of each model Corvette about "my H/C/I installation doesn't run right; how do I fix it?" that I was leery that closest "local" speed shop (250 miles away) would/could get the correct combination of heads, cam, intakes, and tune configured correctly in one attempt, that I chose the brain-dead option of R&R'ing an RPM gearbox.
If all you ever do is swap the rear gears, nothing else in the drivetrain or the electronics (BCM) needs alteration. That's another benefit if gears are a consideration.
RomanNYC, I forgot to add... I don't remember where, but I saw a thread somewhere listing "best 1/4 times" sorted by add-ons. Someone using drag radials with my exact bolt-ons (except no Lwt Flywheel) posted he did an 11.4 qtr. I dunno if that's "fantasy" or not. I'm sure mine would be easily <12sec. in qtr, but I don't know if it's "11.4-fast".
4.10s in a C5 or C6 stick car... require no BCM modification and require NO TUNING OR calibrating whatsoever.
Auto's require tuning always.
Chuck CoW
05-02-2017, 02:35 PM
#25
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
Received 243 Likes
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183 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
4.10s in a C5 or C6 stick car... require no BCM modification and require NO TUNING OR calibrating whatsoever.
Auto's require tuning always.
Installing a rear end in any C5 or C6 is one of the most fun and reliable (and cost effective) mod you could make.
Sad part is that will all the vendors marketing their "power adding" products sway people to make them think that
ADDING POWER is the only way to make the car more fun. Fact is, EVERY CAR THAT LEAVES THE FACTORY
NEEDS MORE GEAR IN THE BACK.... PERIOD. It should be one of your first mods..... almost ALWAYS.
Most people will simply never know this.....
Chuck CoW
Auto's require tuning always.
Installing a rear end in any C5 or C6 is one of the most fun and reliable (and cost effective) mod you could make.
Sad part is that will all the vendors marketing their "power adding" products sway people to make them think that
ADDING POWER is the only way to make the car more fun. Fact is, EVERY CAR THAT LEAVES THE FACTORY
NEEDS MORE GEAR IN THE BACK.... PERIOD. It should be one of your first mods..... almost ALWAYS.
Most people will simply never know this.....
Chuck CoW
05-02-2017, 03:33 PM
#26
^^ FYI Chuck there at COW did the gear install on my car.
For what it's worth, he talked me out of paying a lot of dollars on stuff. I walked in ready to tear the motor apart and dig in, maybe even add a blower. We had a lot of back & forth discussion on the risks of what I was asking for, the costs, and the practicality of it (my car was going to be stored out of state and impossible to get back for fixing any bugs). Most importantly, we went over the way I drive my car 99% of the time (which is, to be honest, pretty mellow cruising with occasional romps on the throttle) and the best mod given that usage.
His suggestion was to try gears first, see how I like 'em, and he'll tinker with the tune that I had from probably a decade prior. Needless to say, that combo works like a charm.
How many aftermarket shops would pass up a really nice chunk of work when a not-entirely-informed customer comes in asking for something he thinks would be a good idea, or fun? Ahh, the dangers of reading the internet for Vette mod ideas....everyone's an expert.....
What's that famous Mike Tyson quote, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face?" Or something like that....
Chuck's honesty reminded me of many years prior, when I first got the car, and I was going to have Andy at A&A (out in CA) install his then-new blower kit. He actually talked me out of it too, based on how I used my car. It was also a period where many things were still getting refined to work on that motor, like fuel pump, tuning, etc. If I recall, his own C5 was his test mule, and was a monster. So, I've had luxury of two of the country's top notch C5 mechanics talk me OUT of buying things. Go figure.
Ok, yeah I still wish I had that cam rumble, but only while stopped at idle....the rest of the time while in motion, it's literally the farthest thing from my mind. I HATE motors that drone, and I've been in a few sports cars that are, to me, just a brutal experience when setting cruise control at 70mph for a couple hours on end. No fun.
My car has 4.10's, Vararam, an updated tune, and that's it. It's ridiculously fun. No drone. MPGs via the 4.10's are an afterthought; yeah it's a few less mpg's vs. stock. But honestly, if you're sweating that detail during the course of mod conversations on a Z06, you need to recalibrate.
My car does needs a new clutch though.
For what it's worth, he talked me out of paying a lot of dollars on stuff. I walked in ready to tear the motor apart and dig in, maybe even add a blower. We had a lot of back & forth discussion on the risks of what I was asking for, the costs, and the practicality of it (my car was going to be stored out of state and impossible to get back for fixing any bugs). Most importantly, we went over the way I drive my car 99% of the time (which is, to be honest, pretty mellow cruising with occasional romps on the throttle) and the best mod given that usage.
His suggestion was to try gears first, see how I like 'em, and he'll tinker with the tune that I had from probably a decade prior. Needless to say, that combo works like a charm.
How many aftermarket shops would pass up a really nice chunk of work when a not-entirely-informed customer comes in asking for something he thinks would be a good idea, or fun? Ahh, the dangers of reading the internet for Vette mod ideas....everyone's an expert.....
What's that famous Mike Tyson quote, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face?" Or something like that....Chuck's honesty reminded me of many years prior, when I first got the car, and I was going to have Andy at A&A (out in CA) install his then-new blower kit. He actually talked me out of it too, based on how I used my car. It was also a period where many things were still getting refined to work on that motor, like fuel pump, tuning, etc. If I recall, his own C5 was his test mule, and was a monster. So, I've had luxury of two of the country's top notch C5 mechanics talk me OUT of buying things. Go figure.
Ok, yeah I still wish I had that cam rumble, but only while stopped at idle....the rest of the time while in motion, it's literally the farthest thing from my mind. I HATE motors that drone, and I've been in a few sports cars that are, to me, just a brutal experience when setting cruise control at 70mph for a couple hours on end. No fun.
My car has 4.10's, Vararam, an updated tune, and that's it. It's ridiculously fun. No drone. MPGs via the 4.10's are an afterthought; yeah it's a few less mpg's vs. stock. But honestly, if you're sweating that detail during the course of mod conversations on a Z06, you need to recalibrate.
My car does needs a new clutch though.
Last edited by SLO VETTE; 05-02-2017 at 03:42 PM.
05-02-2017, 06:45 PM
#27
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
Received 243 Likes
on
183 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
^^ FYI Chuck there at COW did the gear install on my car.
For what it's worth, he talked me out of paying a lot of dollars on stuff. I walked in ready to tear the motor apart and dig in, maybe even add a blower. We had a lot of back & forth discussion on the risks of what I was asking for, the costs, and the practicality of it...
His suggestion was to try gears first, see how I like 'em, and he'll tinker with the tune that I had from probably a decade prior. Needless to say, that combo works like a charm.
How many aftermarket shops would pass up a really nice chunk of work when a not-entirely-informed customer comes in asking for something he thinks would be a good idea, or fun? Ahh, the dangers of reading the internet for Vette mod ideas....everyone's an expert..... What's that famous Mike Tyson quote, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face?" Or something like that....
Chuck's honesty reminded me of many years prior, when I first got the car, and I was going to have Andy at A&A (out in CA) install his then-new blower kit. He actually talked me out of it too, based on how I used my car. It was also a period where many things were still getting refined to work on that motor, like fuel pump, tuning, etc. If I recall, his own C5 was his test mule, and was a monster. So, I've had luxury of two of the country's top notch C5 mechanics talk me OUT of buying things. Go figure.
My car does needs a new clutch though.
For what it's worth, he talked me out of paying a lot of dollars on stuff. I walked in ready to tear the motor apart and dig in, maybe even add a blower. We had a lot of back & forth discussion on the risks of what I was asking for, the costs, and the practicality of it...
His suggestion was to try gears first, see how I like 'em, and he'll tinker with the tune that I had from probably a decade prior. Needless to say, that combo works like a charm.
How many aftermarket shops would pass up a really nice chunk of work when a not-entirely-informed customer comes in asking for something he thinks would be a good idea, or fun? Ahh, the dangers of reading the internet for Vette mod ideas....everyone's an expert.....
What's that famous Mike Tyson quote, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face?" Or something like that....Chuck's honesty reminded me of many years prior, when I first got the car, and I was going to have Andy at A&A (out in CA) install his then-new blower kit. He actually talked me out of it too, based on how I used my car. It was also a period where many things were still getting refined to work on that motor, like fuel pump, tuning, etc. If I recall, his own C5 was his test mule, and was a monster. So, I've had luxury of two of the country's top notch C5 mechanics talk me OUT of buying things. Go figure.
My car does needs a new clutch though.
Holds the power and smooth as a baby's *** on your leg....
Just say when!
Chuck CoW
05-03-2017, 08:40 AM
#28
I opted for a 3.73 based on what my trans builder recommended. I do a lot of cruising with the car and 6th gear is finally usable. I'm making about 700hp and it has been one of the best mods I've done! Such an awesome bang for the buck. When I had the trans and rear down I had him rebuild everything for peace of mind. Even had him put a 30 spline in the t56... prolly would have been cheaper just getting a 6060.
05-03-2017, 10:07 AM
#29
Racer
Thread Starter
I opted for a 3.73 based on what my trans builder recommended. I do a lot of cruising with the car and 6th gear is finally usable. I'm making about 700hp and it has been one of the best mods I've done! Such an awesome bang for the buck. When I had the trans and rear down I had him rebuild everything for peace of mind. Even had him put a 30 spline in the t56... prolly would have been cheaper just getting a 6060.
05-03-2017, 10:30 PM
#30
Racer
I actually did the opposite. I am a heads/cam car and I had 4.10s and went back to factory 3.42s. If your cam is aggressive the 4.10s made the car not as enjoyable to drive. With 3.42s the car is much more fun on the street and a million times better on the highway. All depends on your long term goals