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At the end of the day...Its a Ford...After owning 5 Mustangs, the best being a 78 Mustang II, the new Mustang will eventually do what every other Ford product does...it will start by nickel and diming you to death and then require major repairs...I use to be nothing but a blue oval man...5 mustangs was only part of it as I owned many other models of Ford's...I would choose a 75 Corvette with 100,000 miles over a new Ford Mustang GT...
At the end of the day...Its a Ford...After owning 5 Mustangs, the best being a 78 Mustang II, the new Mustang will eventually do what every other Ford product does...it will start by nickel and diming you to death and then require major repairs...I use to be nothing but a blue oval man...5 mustangs was only part of it as I owned many other models of Ford's...I would choose a 75 Corvette with 100,000 miles over a new Ford Mustang GT...
Not sure when the last time you owned a Ford was, but Fords of today are just as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas. I agree they had some quality issues in the past, especially pre-90s.
I've owned my 94 Mustang Cobra for 10+ years as a primary driver and it's been nothing short of reliable (knock on wood). My 89 Mustang GT I used to own, not so much.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 08-09-2017 at 02:03 PM.
Wait a garsh darn minute there! You're saying that next years mustang can beat a two generation old corvette to 60MPH?! And there are other cars that exist which cost more and the mustang beats those to 60 as well?! STOP THE PRESSES!!!! I'll bet it can even hold more occupants than a C5Z also. Curated content post about OP's topic incoming! Wonder if anyone has alerted the Washington Post or USA Today about this.
At the end of the day...Its a Ford...After owning 5 Mustangs, the best being a 78 Mustang II, the new Mustang will eventually do what every other Ford product does...it will start by nickel and diming you to death and then require major repairs...I use to be nothing but a blue oval man...5 mustangs was only part of it as I owned many other models of Ford's...I would choose a 75 Corvette with 100,000 miles over a new Ford Mustang GT...
i don't think I would choose a 75 corvette with 100,000 miles over a Ford probe.
At the end of the day...Its a Ford...After owning 5 Mustangs, the best being a 78 Mustang II, the new Mustang will eventually do what every other Ford product does...it will start by nickel and diming you to death and then require major repairs...I use to be nothing but a blue oval man...5 mustangs was only part of it as I owned many other models of Ford's...I would choose a 75 Corvette with 100,000 miles over a new Ford Mustang GT...
........... not sure that is saying much. I'd buy that '75 over any new Corvette too if conservation of cash is the only priority.
Cars cost money.......the only difference between them is how much over any given period of time.
Any new car that is mass produced (corvette and mustang certainly "tick" the mass produced box with a "yes").......depreciates at an alarming rate that would make any '75 in decent shape look like the smart play from a $ perspective.....especially if the car won't be anything more than a sunny day driver.
I actually considered a 2 year old 5.0 when I bought my z06. I did really like how it drove, but it was nothing compared the c5z. Sadly, I still think I would rather a terminator than a new mustang GT
I actually considered a 2 year old 5.0 when I bought my z06. I did really like how it drove, but it was nothing compared the c5z. Sadly, I still think I would rather a terminator than a new mustang GT
And low mile 2003/2004 Terminators are killing our C5Zs in value. You can't find one below the upper 20s these days. I tend to agree with you.
New Stangs are a great platform. That Coyote motor is quite impressive.
That being said, the C5Z ran great 1/4 mile passes and fantastic at Limerock.
BTW- What are the 1/4 mile stats for this new Stang?
New Stangs are a great platform. That Coyote motor is quite impressive.
That being said, the C5Z ran great 1/4 mile passes and fantastic at Limerock.
BTW- What are the 1/4 mile stats for this new Stang?
It's going to have a multi geared auto transmission and a crap load of computer help to produce a quicker 0-60.......... I suppose that means it's going to be more consistent and faster than in the past but at some point it's almost cheating isn't it?
What in the world ever happened to the idea of driver skill?
It seems like each year technology is responsible for more of the gain in all these cars 0-60.
The 1/4 mile time seems like less of a measure now that it isn't something to look at as Driver Controlled.
The way a car drives and feels, over-all, in the real world...... still comes down to how well it handles it's power with ME at the wheel.
A simple one dimensional measure of standing start completely controlled by a high tech computer and auto transmission and the car headed down the length of a drag-strip in a straight line tells me almost NOTHING about how I might prefer one car vs another in the real world of corners, traffic, passing on the high way.
Launches this controlled might make for a real drag strip killer vs. older cars with similar power to weight ratios........but......it doesn't tell me nearly enough to make a comparison to a car with similar power to weight that may be slower in the 1/4 mile because as driver I can't match a computer controlling a 10 speed auto from 0-60mph with anything close to consistency.
It's going to have a multi geared auto transmission and a crap load of computer help to produce a quicker 0-60.......... I suppose that means it's going to be more consistent and faster than in the past but at some point it's almost cheating isn't it?
What in the world ever happened to the idea of driver skill?
It seems like each year technology is responsible for more of the gain in all these cars 0-60.
The 1/4 mile time seems like less of a measure now that it isn't something to look at as Driver Controlled.
The way a car drives and feels, over-all, in the real world...... still comes down to how well it handles it's power with ME at the wheel.
A simple one dimensional measure of standing start completely controlled by a high tech computer and auto transmission and the car headed down the length of a drag-strip in a straight line tells me almost NOTHING about how I might prefer one car vs another in the real world of corners, traffic, passing on the high way.
Launches this controlled might make for a real drag strip killer vs. older cars with similar power to weight ratios........but......it doesn't tell me nearly enough to make a comparison to a car with similar power to weight that may be slower in the 1/4 mile because as driver I can't match a computer controlling a 10 speed auto from 0-60mph with anything close to consistency.
It isn't cheating to develop new technologies to make cars faster without having to add more power, but it sure isn't as fun as really having to work with the car to make it move.
And as far as using performance on paper to decide on what car to buy, you're completely right, its stupid. I thought I would love the Golf R a few years back. On paper it looked really cool. After driving one, I would have chosen a GTI over it.
It's going to have a multi geared auto transmission and a crap load of computer help to produce a quicker 0-60.......... I suppose that means it's going to be more consistent and faster than in the past but at some point it's almost cheating isn't it?
What in the world ever happened to the idea of driver skill?
It seems like each year technology is responsible for more of the gain in all these cars 0-60.
The 1/4 mile time seems like less of a measure now that it isn't something to look at as Driver Controlled.
The way a car drives and feels, over-all, in the real world...... still comes down to how well it handles it's power with ME at the wheel.
A simple one dimensional measure of standing start completely controlled by a high tech computer and auto transmission and the car headed down the length of a drag-strip in a straight line tells me almost NOTHING about how I might prefer one car vs another in the real world of corners, traffic, passing on the high way.
Launches this controlled might make for a real drag strip killer vs. older cars with similar power to weight ratios........but......it doesn't tell me nearly enough to make a comparison to a car with similar power to weight that may be slower in the 1/4 mile because as driver I can't match a computer controlling a 10 speed auto from 0-60mph with anything close to consistency.
I agree by and large with your statements; however, it is still one of the viable tests that we can compare cars. My prowess has for the most part drag racing. Having said that, a road course is a great deal more fun and requires a different set of skills and attributes from the car. I felt more in tune with road in the C5Z over the C6Z as far as feedback. As for an automatic, they are becoming more difficult to compete with. I much prefer a stick over any slush box. I was inquiring for stats on the new Stang to see how it would fair against the much older C5Z. My guess is that a well driven C5Z will still out perform the Stang everywhere.
The majority of people out there who'd buy a NEW 2018 Mustang GT wouldn't consider a Corvette DEEP into it's need for replacement parts and just about a full decade out of warranty.
You may not see much difference and find reason to consider one car vs the other for pure performance reasons.........but no way can you convince me that the over-whelming majority of people would actually consider a new car an actual comparison for purchase against a car just about 15 years old.
It's an apples to oranges comparison for most buyers.
Very few people would call this a comparison for purchase they'd make.
More likely the older Corvette is a purchase made by the buyer who wants only a Corvette and isn't even going to consider a Mustang......chances are really good that he or she can't actually afford a newer Corvette........and they are willing to take on the potential for repairs and problems in an older car.
The New Mustang is likely going to be considered by someone who can't justify a New Corvette for it's price tag attached or it's lack of a back seat. New cars simply cost more........a lot more when you consider everything from massive depreciation to taxes and registration and insurance costs........but they make better reliable, fully warrantied daily drivers.....especially for the person who can't or doesn't want the head-aches that comes with a 15 year old car's need for upkeep and replacement of worn, tired pieces.
A 15 year old Z06 might be a great 3rd car in the garage for sunny day driving............but the new Mustang is without doubt the better choice as driver to get you to work and around town when you can't really handle the aggravations of reliability and repair issues,
There is enough difference here that if you can actually see two cars that match up well for comparison........... I think you're in a seriously small group of potential buyers of eithr car
I dunno, I had a really new Coyote Mustang and went to a C5Z. It did some things ok, but the on paper stats don't tell the whole story. The Z06 drives and feels much better than the Mustang. I did not have the latest generation, but at the time I had it my Mustang was only 1 year old so it was almost brand new and had around 20k miles on it and was bone stock. The interior was nicer, but it's 10 years newer (plus I had the premium which had the nicer aluminum dash panel among other things) so that's a given.
I don't think it's correct to assume buyers of C5Z's couldn't afford newer ones. I could have bought a C7 (Not a Z06 or Grand Sport), but I looked at the performance numbers and the old C5Z is basically as fast as a plain C7. You just give up the nice modern interior, which I don't care as much about (at least not enough to spend $25-30k more to get). C5Z's are the most reliable C5's because they do away with most of the goofy stuff that breaks on these cars like those stupid adjustable shocks, and no stupid TPMS sensors. And due to being '01-04 they don't have the unreplaceable EBCM module, nor any of the stupid issues the '97-'00s do (which are the bulk of C5 issues).
I think if the backseat is a big deal most will probably avoid coupes in general. Consider we live in a time where people look for any excuse to buy an SUV, so people sure aren't going to squeeze into the backseat on a coupe. It's mostly used for throwing some extra stuff in the car (that's what I used the backseat for on my Mustang). I don't have to drive every day, but I've been taking my Z06 almost every time I do and letting my rainy day/winter time vehicle sit. Most C5's live a pretty sheltered life and have very robust drivetrains so I have no idea what reliability issues you think would make them so untrustworthy. I'd drive my Z06 cross country right now if I had the inclination, with no real worries that it would fail me. Even the abused Z06 I looked at before I bought mine which had 115k miles on it and stuff like the HUD broken, whistling on the highway from crappy window seal, and some body damage here and there - the shop that inspected it said it was good to go minus the aforementioned things which they pointed out and that the tires had about 45% life left.
The Z06 turns on in away that Coyote Mustangs don't. Plus those Mustangs have a kinda crappy engine note. Very intake-y. Their exhaust systems all tend to give them this note, I dunno how to describe it in text kind of a Blalalalalalalala sound. IMO the older 4.6 sounded much better.
I dunno, I had a really new Coyote Mustang and went to a C5Z. It did some things ok, but the on paper stats don't tell the whole story. The Z06 drives and feels much better than the Mustang. I did not have the latest generation, but at the time I had it my Mustang was only 1 year old so it was almost brand new and had around 20k miles on it and was bone stock. The interior was nicer, but it's 10 years newer (plus I had the premium which had the nicer aluminum dash panel among other things) so that's a given.
I don't think it's correct to assume buyers of C5Z's couldn't afford newer ones. I could have bought a C7 (Not a Z06 or Grand Sport), but I looked at the performance numbers and the old C5Z is basically as fast as a plain C7. You just give up the nice modern interior, which I don't care as much about (at least not enough to spend $25-30k more to get). C5Z's are the most reliable C5's because they do away with most of the goofy stuff that breaks on these cars like those stupid adjustable shocks, and no stupid TPMS sensors. And due to being '01-04 they don't have the unreplaceable EBCM module, nor any of the stupid issues the '97-'00s do (which are the bulk of C5 issues).
I think if the backseat is a big deal most will probably avoid coupes in general. Consider we live in a time where people look for any excuse to buy an SUV, so people sure aren't going to squeeze into the backseat on a coupe. It's mostly used for throwing some extra stuff in the car (that's what I used the backseat for on my Mustang). I don't have to drive every day, but I've been taking my Z06 almost every time I do and letting my rainy day/winter time vehicle sit. Most C5's live a pretty sheltered life and have very robust drivetrains so I have no idea what reliability issues you think would make them so untrustworthy. I'd drive my Z06 cross country right now if I had the inclination, with no real worries that it would fail me. Even the abused Z06 I looked at before I bought mine which had 115k miles on it and stuff like the HUD broken, whistling on the highway from crappy window seal, and some body damage here and there - the shop that inspected it said it was good to go minus the aforementioned things which they pointed out and that the tires had about 45% life left.
The Z06 turns on in away that Coyote Mustangs don't. Plus those Mustangs have a kinda crappy engine note. Very intake-y. Their exhaust systems all tend to give them this note, I dunno how to describe it in text kind of a Blalalalalalalala sound. IMO the older 4.6 sounded much better. https://youtu.be/xL-vYOUZi88
I actually agree with you on the 2/3/4 valve 4.6's sounding better than the coyote. I do like how many coyotes sound, but it does seem like a lot more just noise than exhaust tone.
I actually agree with you on the 2/3/4 valve 4.6's sounding better than the coyote. I do like how many coyotes sound, but it does seem like a lot more just noise than exhaust tone.
I was a member of one of the Mustang forums when I had it, many of those guys had the same thoughts that the old Modular sounded better. A lot were trying to emulate the exhaust sound of the older ones. I test drove a 2010 (I went to look at a 2010 Camaro SS and realized how bad that visibility was after driving it), so it still had the 4.6 in it. Was kinda fun to be that prototypical Mustang driver that I love to hate these days making a bunch of noise, and some guy in a Miata gave me a dirty look since I was running through the gears and then getting off the throttle near him. Of course as with many things, people learn to like a sound when it does the other things they want.
I wouldn't mind a Golf R as my alternate car when not driving the Z06, but I really don't care for the sound of a four cylinder...I don't get how those guys who buy Focus ST/RS, GTI/Golf R, etc. do it. The sound IMO is part of what makes any performance car fun to drive. I'd take a slower car like a base Cayman with a great sounding exhaust over a faster but worse sounding four cylinder. The DSG is hard to beat for how fast it is though, and I kind of like the obnoxious sound they can make when they use launch control...
My wife and I test drove a number of new Camaro SS' and Mustang GT's. We drove quite a ways to test drive sometimes. We ended up buying a 2002 Z06 instead of the other vehicles. I'm not sure how anybody can so easily say that people wouldn't be cross-shopping the two.
The new Camaro SS' are great. We loved the dual mode exhaust, the phone integration, and the adjustable suspension. The biggest issue I had was that I couldn't comfortably drive one if it had the moonroof. I'm not a fan of ordering a car and trying to find one optioned exactly how we wanted that was willing to deal was a pain. Almost every car had a damn moonroof or a bunch of factory options that I didn't want and had no interest in paying for.
The new Mustangs are okay. Honestly the wife liked them so much she swore it was better than the Camaro after driving a GTPP with the 6-speed. We immediately went to the Chevrolet dealer to drive another Camaro and she changed her opinion back to the Camaro. I think that's a testament to how nice both vehicles are. The issues I had with the Mustang were greater. The exhaust is absurd. You can barely tell there is a V8 under the hood with the stock exhaust. I wanted the adjustable suspension, but that wasn't an option. (Both of those are now options, but were not available when we were shopping.) The manual transmission on the Mustangs are awful. The complaints about them are all over the internet and Ford refuses to address them appropriately, and I wanted another manual transmission car. (Although the $40k supercharged Mustang GT that Lebanon Ford in Ohio is offering up was pretty tempting.)
January I found my 2002 Z06 with 8,6xx miles on it for a fraction of the cost of the new Mustang or Camaro. The car was basically new. I knew I could run into random things that might go bad from age alone, but as a former mechanic with all my tools, I wasn't afraid of that. I trust myself way more than a technician at the dealership if something needs done. We have no regrets about choosing the Z06 over the other cars. I've fixed the things that have shown up (door lock module relays, for example) and we've taken the car to several autocross and drag race events this year.
We couldn't be happier, but we absolutely cross-shopped the other cars mentioned.
Finally after 14 years Ford has got the Mustang GT to rival a new base model Corvette on the drag strip. It doesn't say what it weighs, but if about 3,800lbs like the 2017 model, it could potentially be faster than a base model Corvette and a C5Z if lightened up about 200lbs. For those of you who know me I have always been a Ford guy. I actually don't like Chevrolet other than the Corvette, but haven't owned a Mustang yet that can rival a C5Z going straight or around corners. Thus why I sold my 2014 GT last year and bought another C5Z. I'm excited about this new GT but sadly I prefer the front of the 15-17 model more. I wonder if there will be Ford Performance parts to get those models up closer to the new 460/420 power ratings? Anyway enjoy the article...
NEW MUSTANG GT CAN GO 0-TO-60 MPH IN LESS THAN FOUR SECONDS
2018 Mustang GT in Drag Strip mode can reach 60 mph in under four seconds – faster than a Porsche 911 and setting a new standard as the fastest Mustang GT ever
Redesigned 5.0-liter V8 with all-new available 10-speed SelectShift® automatic sees power increased to 460 horsepower and 420 lb.-ft. of torque
Drag Strip mode optimizes torque, transmission and newly available custom-designed Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires to deliver maximum acceleration and performance in straight-line driving
DEARBORN, Mich., July 24, 2017 – Ford’s most advanced and powerful Mustang GT is also the fastest ever, achieving 0-to-60-mph in less than four seconds in Drag Strip mode.
The new Mustang is also faster than a $94,000 Porsche 911 Carrera, which Carl Widmann, Mustang chief engineer, attributes to five factors:
Improved horsepower and torque output of the redesigned 5.0-liter V8
Maximum acceleration of available Drag Strip mode
Quicker, smoother shifting of the available 10-speed SelectShift® transmission
Optimized traction courtesy of the available custom-designed Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S tires on new Performance Pack
“Typically, when you shift gears, you give up time,” said Widmann. “In Drag Strip mode, the engine torque doesn’t drop when you’re shifting. You get peak engine torque and horsepower straight through thanks to our new Ford-built 10-speed transmission.”
The car’s 5.0-liter V8 now features dual-fuel, high-pressure direct injection and low-pressure port fuel injection technology for increased power and efficiency. The engine’s 460 horsepower and 420 lb.-ft. of torque represent improvements over the current model’s 435 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. The result is an engine that delivers robust low-end torque, high-rpm power and improved fuel efficiency.
Drivers of EcoBoost®-equipped Mustang also will feel increased power on the strip. The retuned EcoBoost four-cylinder generates 310 horsepower and 350 lb.-ft. of torque – a 30 lb.-ft. gain over the current model. In Drag Strip mode with Performance Package and the 10-speed automatic, the 2018 EcoBoost-powered Mustang posts an impressive 0-to-60-mph time of under five seconds.
Drag Strip mode – one of five driver-selectable modes available for 2018 – has been designed to provide maximum acceleration and performance for straight-line driving. Drag Strip mode is primarily controlled by the transmission and delivers a significant acceleration boost, eliminating the lost time usually associated with automatic shifting.
The new 10-speed transmission, with a wide-ratio span and optimized gear spacing, helps deliver higher average power for acceleration – resulting in improved responsiveness and performance. The 10-speed architecture features Ford-patented power-flow and Ford-patented direct-acting hydraulic controls. It’s designed for optimum ratio progression and efficiency, and provides more accurate, quicker upshift and downshift capability.
In addition, an all-new electronic control system features real-time adaptive shift-scheduling algorithms engineered to help ensure the right gear is engaged at the right time, including skip-shift and direct downshift capability.
Compared to the outgoing six-speed, the new 10-speed automatic has quicker shift times and better low-speed tip-in response. It’s uniquely tuned for all five drive modes – normal, sport, track, Drag Strip and snow/wet. Steering wheel-mounted shift paddles allow drivers maximum manual control.
“Gearing matters, and in Drag Strip mode, this car launches better than ever off the line,” said Widmann.
Fans will be able to build and price their very own 2018 Mustang from July 25 by visiting www.ford.com/mustang/2018. New Mustang is due to reach showrooms this fall.
The Corvette is/has always been a sports car.............not a drag racing car.
The Mustang has always been a family car.
True on the Corvette, though the Mustang is a pony car definitely not any kind of family car. I'd reserve the family car moniker for stuff like the Fusion/Altima/Malibu/etc.
Interesting thread and seeing how people view cars. I like cars and machinery in general what sold me on the C5 Z06 I bought in 2009 was the exhaust note it had withe Corsa exhaust. I like the handling and all that but recently bought a 99 coupe LS1 A4 with A&A Vortech V3S1, it too has a Corsa (different) and I love the still decent handling but quieter and more cruiser ride.
I also like the newer Mustang GT's including the exhaust note which is kick *** to me. I don't own one but a 6 speed auto 5.0 with CAI and tune would run or beat my Z06 which my run was 12.69 @ 2400 DA. Someday I'll get a GT and yes that deal some dealers are selling of a 40K supercharged GT sounds pretty good specially if you want 670 hp with a factory warranty. I would prefer a used low mileage GT and add a Vortech though.
08-09-2017, 11:56 AM
Curated content post about OP's topic incoming! Wonder if anyone has alerted the Washington Post or USA Today about this. 
........... not sure that is saying much. I'd buy that '75 over any new Corvette too if conservation of cash is the only priority.
