A&A Vortech C5 Supercharger Build Thread by Toys4Life C5
#121
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St. Jude Donor '21
So what's your guys thoughts on the ring glands for piston 5 and 7? I hear its a potential issue but most comments were from years ago. Now is that an issue simply because our cars will be boosted and take more "engine abuse" or is it once again something that tuning can keep at bay? I do plan to ensure that my tuner knows what he is doing and keeps timing low and a bit rich when mashing the pedal.....Thoughts?
Toys, personal question- you've had the A&A kit for a few months now. What are your thoughts? Still smiling???
Toys, personal question- you've had the A&A kit for a few months now. What are your thoughts? Still smiling???
2. It is in the garage for the Minnesota winter. I did get to drive it for a couple of months and love it. Make sure you want to keep your c5 for several years though as you probably would not recover any of the price of the SC if you sell the car - people like non-modified used vettes. If you did not need a 200HP boost, I think a moderate cam and slightly lower gears would be fun too.
Also, if you have a M6 with a stock clutch, plan on upgrading the clutch which is another grand.
Last edited by Toys4Life C5; 11-16-2018 at 03:32 PM. Reason: added more info.
#122
Safety Car
a spot on tune is essential for making them live regardless of power level, you can just as easily blow one up with 2psi as you can with 20psi... if you can keep them from knocking and the tune is good, good fuel, and everything working properly, they can take more than most would think... if you don't mind bringing your car to Texas we have a really good well known tuner in the DFW area that I could send you to... sounds crazy but the bulk of the cars he works on are out of state
#123
Safety Car
1. As far as breaking pistons, I researched a LOT prior to buying my kit as I was worried about 10.1 compression, boost and cast pistons. I do have 4 years of supercharged experience on another application and agree with the others that responded about the tune being very important. Specifically making sure your combo of compression, boost, heat, fuel and timing does not KNOCK at all under full load. That is what breaks pistons most - or a good tune and trying to get 900 hp on a stock LS1 short block with cast pistions. Having said all that, I am willing to build my stock block up to no more than 650 at the crank (550 at wheels). Any more than that and I believe you are rolling the dice with the stock cast pistons. Also I do my own tuning and use a aeroforce scan gauge that is always set up with a red light indicator to draw my attention if I get any knock.
2. It is in the garage for the Minnesota winter. I did get to drive it for a couple of months and love it. Make sure you want to keep your c5 for several years though as you probably would not recover any of the price of the SC if you sell the car - people like non-modified used vettes. If you did not need a 200HP boost, I think a moderate cam and slightly lower gears would be fun too.
Also, if you have a M6 with a stock clutch, plan on upgrading the clutch which is another grand.
2. It is in the garage for the Minnesota winter. I did get to drive it for a couple of months and love it. Make sure you want to keep your c5 for several years though as you probably would not recover any of the price of the SC if you sell the car - people like non-modified used vettes. If you did not need a 200HP boost, I think a moderate cam and slightly lower gears would be fun too.
Also, if you have a M6 with a stock clutch, plan on upgrading the clutch which is another grand.
All of the answers from you guys makes me feel more comfortable that a tune IS key. I do have an auto with a 3200 stall. She runs cool and strong with my aftermarket cooler. I know the auto is another weak link but I will not be running drag radials and my launches will not be as forceful. I hope that keeps her healthy for awhile. This weekend I will be swapping the alt bracket and ps pulley. I did happen to notice that the harmonic balancer has a wobble. Funny it's like that with relatively low miles. I do have a powerband waiting to go in very soon. I am just not thrilled with changing it on the floor as the cradle needs to be lowered. Everything else is fine working on my 4 post.
#124
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on the alternator bracket, if you ever decide to go to a secondary drive you have to cut off the area of the bracket that is deemed stronger in the newer designs... so if you go through the trouble of swapping brackets and then go to a secondary drive it's just extra time and money spent, just food for thought
#125
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on the alternator bracket, if you ever decide to go to a secondary drive you have to cut off the area of the bracket that is deemed stronger in the newer designs... so if you go through the trouble of swapping brackets and then go to a secondary drive it's just extra time and money spent, just food for thought
#126
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So what's the deal with this secondary drive? Does the A&A kit or any SC kit cause belt squeal on the AC belt which goes away when you get the secondary drive? I know there are other benefits but will the belts squeal without it???
#127
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around 700+ and you should really start considering a secondary drive or at least an 8 rib conversion but they are both about the same cost so you might as well go with the secondary drive with a 10 rib on the blower side and that will be a pretty bulletproof setup right there... the older design secondary drives used the a/c belt to drive a jackshaft pulley which then drove the accessories and those were known to sqeal when the a/c was turned on... the newer design doesn't use the a/c belt to drive the jackshaft so it doesn't have the belt squealing issues, I have one on my car and it has been working great... if you don't think you would ever go that high in power then you should be fine with the standard 6 rib setup
#128
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around 700+ and you should really start considering a secondary drive or at least an 8 rib conversion but they are both about the same cost so you might as well go with the secondary drive with a 10 rib on the blower side and that will be a pretty bulletproof setup right there... the older design secondary drives used the a/c belt to drive a jackshaft pulley which then drove the accessories and those were known to sqeal when the a/c was turned on... the newer design doesn't use the a/c belt to drive the jackshaft so it doesn't have the belt squealing issues, I have one on my car and it has been working great... if you don't think you would ever go that high in power then you should be fine with the standard 6 rib setup
#129
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So I took the plung....I could not pass up the black Friday deals..I just changed my alt bracket and power steering pulley this past weekend. Next week will be the boost and WB guage installs...
Toys, did you install your injectors at you house while using A &As base tune for the injectors? Or did you have to install the injectors at the dyno? Just wondering what you did and if it worked out well? I am told the base tune update will change the tune to accept the new size injectors. I really prefer to swap the injectors before I drive an hour + to get dyno tuned?
Toys, did you install your injectors at you house while using A &As base tune for the injectors? Or did you have to install the injectors at the dyno? Just wondering what you did and if it worked out well? I am told the base tune update will change the tune to accept the new size injectors. I really prefer to swap the injectors before I drive an hour + to get dyno tuned?
#130
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if I recall you have hptuners right?... if so you can go ahead and install the new injectors and have your tuner write you a base tune with the new injector data, he can send the file through email and you can write it to the pcm on your own and then drive to the shop to get tuned... just stay out of boost and you will be perfectly fine, I initially drove mine around for a week before getting tuned just to make sure everything was good to go
#131
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if I recall you have hptuners right?... if so you can go ahead and install the new injectors and have your tuner write you a base tune with the new injector data, he can send the file through email and you can write it to the pcm on your own and then drive to the shop to get tuned... just stay out of boost and you will be perfectly fine, I initially drove mine around for a week before getting tuned just to make sure everything was good to go
#132
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St. Jude Donor '21
if I recall you have hptuners right?... if so you can go ahead and install the new injectors and have your tuner write you a base tune with the new injector data, he can send the file through email and you can write it to the pcm on your own and then drive to the shop to get tuned... just stay out of boost and you will be perfectly fine, I initially drove mine around for a week before getting tuned just to make sure everything was good to go
#133
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I concur. I actually drove mine a bit with the stock tune and stayed out of boost and no more than 15% throttle just to make sure everything seemed to be in order from the install - then I did the BAP, then I added the new 80# injectors and started tuning it myself. It was a lot of fun mixed in with some frustration as I worked through a few tuning issues mostly needed to properly control the Siemens Deka 80# injectors.
#134
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you can do the fuel pump and bap without touching the injectors and it won't change anything... the easiest way to change the belt on the a&a bracket is to route the belt around the waterpump/alternator/power steering pulleys and the balancer and completely remove the j-bracket with manual tensioner from the blower bracket then you can lock the spring tensioner open and route the rest of the belt over all the idlers and blower pulley... you will have to hold the blower with one hand while you route the belt with the other and once you get the belt on properly you can go ahead and lay the blower in and start threading the bolts... once the blower is bolted down you can install the j-bracket but leave it in the position that puts the least amount of tension on the belt then release the spring tensioner and go back to the j-bracket and set the final tension manually... it sounds like a lot and might be a little difficult the first time but after you do it and see how it all works it will be a breeze the second time around
#135
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you can do the fuel pump and bap without touching the injectors and it won't change anything... the easiest way to change the belt on the a&a bracket is to route the belt around the waterpump/alternator/power steering pulleys and the balancer and completely remove the j-bracket with manual tensioner from the blower bracket then you can lock the spring tensioner open and route the rest of the belt over all the idlers and blower pulley... you will have to hold the blower with one hand while you route the belt with the other and once you get the belt on properly you can go ahead and lay the blower in and start threading the bolts... once the blower is bolted down you can install the j-bracket but leave it in the position that puts the least amount of tension on the belt then release the spring tensioner and go back to the j-bracket and set the final tension manually... it sounds like a lot and might be a little difficult the first time but after you do it and see how it all works it will be a breeze the second time around
#136
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watch your fuel pressure, if it doesn't drop you're good... I used a kenne bell bap years ago and I'm not sure if the one a&a uses is the same but mine came with a little controller that I didn't use... I looped the wires to the controller so the pump got max voltage when the bap was activated
#137
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St. Jude Donor '21
watch your fuel pressure, if it doesn't drop you're good... I used a kenne bell bap years ago and I'm not sure if the one a&a uses is the same but mine came with a little controller that I didn't use... I looped the wires to the controller so the pump got max voltage when the bap was activated
#138
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I dont have a bap... my year only gets the lpe or racetronics pump...I do not have a fuel pressure guage as I went wideband instead...so I am in the middle of installing the wideband and boost guage..I do not recall if I can see fuel pressure with hp tuners..
#139
You can log fuel pressure but it’s something you have to set up, it isn’t something the 411 pcm monitors in stock configuration. I would definitely add a fuel pressure gauge. My car went lean last year via the wideband and I also noticed my fuel pressure was dropping at the same time. I knew right away my lean condition was cause to the drop in fuel pressure because of my gauges. My Hobbs switch got to hot and wasn’t turning on. I run a wideband, fuel pressure and boost. I’d run a fuel pressure before a boost. I never get to watch the boost gauge go up because my cars go through the gears so quickly.
I hope you make a build thread!
#140
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You can log fuel pressure but it’s something you have to set up, it isn’t something the 411 pcm monitors in stock configuration. I would definitely add a fuel pressure gauge. My car went lean last year via the wideband and I also noticed my fuel pressure was dropping at the same time. I knew right away my lean condition was cause to the drop in fuel pressure because of my gauges. My Hobbs switch got to hot and wasn’t turning on. I run a wideband, fuel pressure and boost. I’d run a fuel pressure before a boost. I never get to watch the boost gauge go up because my cars go through the gears so quickly.
I hope you make a build thread!