Dealer ruined my C5 ceramic coating
10-10-2018, 08:48 AM
#21
While it is easy to blame the dealer, it would seem difficult to prove he did wash the car or not. I can't imagine the cost of the original ceramic coating would change his lifestyle. The bigger question it seems to me is why would the expensive finish done to the paint be destroyed with but one wash? You would have to assume the dealer did not purposely coat the rags used with mud or another abrasive. So, you spend hundreds of dollars on a coating that some kid can wash away with soap and water?
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
The following users liked this post:
CorvetteBrent (10-11-2018)
10-10-2018, 08:51 AM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Imho, the OP is obviously pretty upset about this situation. I suggest you get a quote to repair from your detailer, and take the dealership to small claims court. Sounds like they aren't interested in talking anymore. Then going forward, I'd leave the vehicle in a museum as it's pretty clear this ceramic coating is about as durable as whip cream.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the "museum" comment. I haven't had these issues with my other vehicle, and drive it on and off the road frequently.
I'm not sure it's too much to expect a dealership to return a vehicle in the same condition it was delivered, or to be honest when they don't.
Debating the merits of c-quartz really isn't the intent here.
10-10-2018, 08:58 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
I haven't read all the posts, but I know that after I had my C-5 ceramic coated, I was advised not to wash my car for a couple of weeks, (until the coating hardened.)
The following users liked this post:
CorvetteBrent (10-11-2018)
10-10-2018, 09:01 AM
#24
Advanced
Thread Starter
While it is easy to blame the dealer, it would seem difficult to prove he did wash the car or not. I can't imagine the cost of the original ceramic coating would change his lifestyle. The bigger question it seems to me is why would the expensive finish done to the paint be destroyed with but one wash? You would have to assume the dealer did not purposely coat the rags used with mud or another abrasive. So, you spend hundreds of dollars on a coating that some kid can wash away with soap and water?
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
Go to the back of an average Chevy dealer and observe the kids washing the cars. The rags are used over and over, dropped and continued to be used, etc.
Yes - one wash and dry with dirty equipment will cause this issue, coating or not.
The subsequent repair is more costly due to the need to now abrade the coating away, as this is where the damage is, and reapply.
Again - the merits of c-quartz are not at stake here. This would occur no matter what in this instance.
Regarding this being a "he said-she said" - there is ample evidence to support this. Without going into details, the GM contradicted himself more than once and in writing.
This thread is simply my way of communicating the need to be more careful and document better than I did.
Last edited by CraigA; 10-10-2018 at 09:02 AM.
The following users liked this post:
SSTG (10-10-2018)
10-10-2018, 09:08 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
While it is easy to blame the dealer, it would seem difficult to prove he did wash the car or not. I can't imagine the cost of the original ceramic coating would change his lifestyle. The bigger question it seems to me is why would the expensive finish done to the paint be destroyed with but one wash? You would have to assume the dealer did not purposely coat the rags used with mud or another abrasive. So, you spend hundreds of dollars on a coating that some kid can wash away with soap and water?
If you have been inside of many Dealer wash bays you will find out that the towels and wash mitts are very dirty in most cases. They literally turn into sand paper. Ceramic Coatings are very good at their intended purpose. They are not protection against ingnorant wash procedures.
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
Corvette’s have very hard paint in most cases to correct (consequently it’s very easy to scratch) it takes a lot of man hours to correct properly. A Ceramic Coating makes that process even harder. If you date, throw your wash towels and drying towels down on the concrete at your local coin wash. Then wash your car and dry it. Post pics when you’re done.
If you have been inside of many Dealer wash bays you will find out that the towels and wash mitts are very dirty in most cases. They literally turn into sand paper. Ceramic Coatings are very good at their intended purpose. They are not protection against ingnorant wash procedures.
Next we get the story that to fix the now damaged finish it will cost more than it cost the first time on a 17 year old car. Again, because of one wash? Is the coating really that fragile and is there absolutely no guarantee? Like others, I have installed paint protection on hundreds of cars but nothing like the cost of the new ceramic coatings. I had thought of doing the process on my cars but after hearing this story...why spend that money!
Corvette’s have very hard paint in most cases to correct (consequently it’s very easy to scratch) it takes a lot of man hours to correct properly. A Ceramic Coating makes that process even harder. If you date, throw your wash towels and drying towels down on the concrete at your local coin wash. Then wash your car and dry it. Post pics when you’re done.
It’s easy to make assumptions about the durability of said coatings but how many of you actually have them on your car and can attest to their durability under proper maintenance?
10-10-2018, 09:11 AM
#26
I can't believe the number of posts from people sticking up for the dealer, or just saying to bite the bullet. Obviously, if the swirls weren't on the car before it went to dealer, and then were there afterwards, the dealer did it. I would take a receipt from your detailer in to show the service manager and demand reimbursement. If he refuses, I'd take it to the regional manager and threaten to take them to small claims court if they also refuse.
Last edited by grampi50; 10-10-2018 at 09:13 AM.
The following 5 users liked this post by grampi50:
CorvetteBrent (10-11-2018),
CraigA (10-10-2018),
FYRARMS (10-10-2018),
marks146 (01-03-2019),
walleyejack (12-18-2018)
10-10-2018, 09:25 AM
#27
I can't believe the number of posts from people sticking up for the dealer, or just saying to bite the bullet. Obviously, if the swirls weren't on the car before it went to dealer, and then were there afterwards, the dealer did it. I would take a receipt from your detailer in to show the service manager and demand reimbursement. If he refuses, I'd take it to the regional manager and threaten to take them to small claims court if they also refuse.
One could argue that the car is not damaged but this is the result of normal wear, as seen on 99% of vehicles on the road. Is the ceramic coaiting still intact on the Vette? Im not siding with the dealer by any means but....... you gotta know what you are getting into when leaving your car with anyone else. Let's face it, there are very few people in this world that will take care of your car the way you do. When I take my wife's car to the dealer(under warranty) I almost expect something to go wrong, it's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
10-10-2018, 09:41 AM
#28
I can't believe the number of posts from people sticking up for the dealer, or just saying to bite the bullet. Obviously, if the swirls weren't on the car before it went to dealer, and then were there afterwards, the dealer did it. I would take a receipt from your detailer in to show the service manager and demand reimbursement. If he refuses, I'd take it to the regional manager and threaten to take them to small claims court if they also refuse.
10-10-2018, 10:12 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
I really don't see it being a question of "siding with the dealer" or not. Either they did or did not wash the car. The more important question to me is the results of spending what must be several hundred dollars on a product that is evidently this fragile. The car got washed evidently once. Trying to say the rags used were somehow so tainted they ruined the finish but nobody else would have such rags, makes no sense. I can spend $10 at the parts store on regular wax and get these results. What exactly does the ceramic coating get you and are we saying there is absolutely no guarantee attached? Why is the detailer not stepping up or does the dealer simply represent deep pockets?
The Dealer is not stepping up and is giving the OP the run around and lying to him on multiple issues. He posted here hoping to vent about this on going saga that he has been dealing with for several months!
Thats what the Forum is for, we are all enthusiasts. For everyone’s information, I have been here to help Craig all the way and I even told him I would help in ANY way I could.
Please. Stop trying to dog my work and understand where the real issue lies.Ceramic Coating are not diamonds they can and will scratch. Proper maintenance and wash procedures are still a must!
10-10-2018, 10:44 AM
#30
No offense as I’m not trying to be rude at all but your ignorance speaks for itself. You have no idea what Ceramic Coatings cost. You are comparing cheap rags with dirty rags and finally you obviously have no experience with CC since you asked “what exactly does Ceramic Coatings get you”. Why chime in on a subject you know nothing about? No, there is no guarantee against some other company damaging the coating. Why would I need to fix the dealers mistakes free of charge??
The Dealer is not stepping up and is giving the OP the run around and lying to him on multiple issues. He posted here hoping to vent about this on going saga that he has been dealing with for several months!
Thats what the Forum is for, we are all enthusiasts. For everyone’s information, I have been here to help Craig all the way and I even told him I would help in ANY way I could.
Please. Stop trying to dog my work and understand where the real issue lies.Ceramic Coating are not diamonds they can and will scratch. Proper maintenance and wash procedures are still a must!
In our area it costs $500-2,000 depending on the vehicle and its condition. This price buys you a seven year guarantee against fading and a need for additional waxes. It is considered to be impact resistant, scratch resistant, UV protected, acid rain resistant, and chemical resistant, as well as offering unmatched paint protection. According to the manufacturers the only way to actually remove the ceramic coating is to wet sand the surface where applied. Yet, you have your client convinced that one trip through a car wash or one kid with a dirty cloth has totally ruined the product and it will take more to fix it than it took to put it on in the first place. Back to my question, what did you deliver that a $10 can of Turtle Wax wouldn't offer?
Just for clarification purposes, since you are pointing out my ignorance, I owned multiple detail shops for forty years that did tens of thousands of cars. But, that is not relevant. What did you sell the OP and where is the warranty is.
10-10-2018, 11:06 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
A touching defense of your questionable work. But, here is the problem. I do know a little bit about the product, what it costs, and the claims the real professionals who manufacturer the product make.
In our area it costs $500-2,000 depending on the vehicle and its condition. This price buys you a seven year guarantee against fading and a need for additional waxes. It is considered to be impact resistant, scratch resistant, UV protected, acid rain resistant, and chemical resistant, as well as offering unmatched paint protection. According to the manufacturers the only way to actually remove the ceramic coating is to wet sand the surface where applied. Yet, you have your client convinced that one trip through a car wash or one kid with a dirty cloth has totally ruined the product and it will take more to fix it than it took to put it on in the first place. Back to my question, what did you deliver that a $10 can of Turtle Wax wouldn't offer?
Just for clarification purposes, since you are pointing out my ignorance, I owned multiple detail shops for forty years that did tens of thousands of cars. But, that is not relevant. What did you sell the OP and where is the warranty is.
In our area it costs $500-2,000 depending on the vehicle and its condition. This price buys you a seven year guarantee against fading and a need for additional waxes. It is considered to be impact resistant, scratch resistant, UV protected, acid rain resistant, and chemical resistant, as well as offering unmatched paint protection. According to the manufacturers the only way to actually remove the ceramic coating is to wet sand the surface where applied. Yet, you have your client convinced that one trip through a car wash or one kid with a dirty cloth has totally ruined the product and it will take more to fix it than it took to put it on in the first place. Back to my question, what did you deliver that a $10 can of Turtle Wax wouldn't offer?
Just for clarification purposes, since you are pointing out my ignorance, I owned multiple detail shops for forty years that did tens of thousands of cars. But, that is not relevant. What did you sell the OP and where is the warranty is.
Coatings must be maintained for warranties.
Are you claiming they are impervious to bad wash methods? If so post up a video with you washing your coated car with filthy, dirt entrapped rags and show us the results.
I detailed the OP’s other vehicle with not a scratch in site after almost a year after the coating was applied but yet you want to impose that I did not give him what he paid for and that equals to no more than a $10 can of turtle wax? Your professionalism is ridiculous. If you were a pro detailer you should’ve stated that in the first place and not asked vague questions.
The following users liked this post:
~Josh (11-02-2020)
The following users liked this post:
CraigA (10-10-2018)
10-10-2018, 11:16 AM
#33
It sounds to me like you’re offended? I’ve Detailed cars for almost 30 years your point? I’ve worked with Guys that have detailed for five years that are better than some guys that have detailed their whole life. You don’t know me,you’ve never met me,you’ve never seen my work but yet you want to call my Professionalism into question. You lost all credit with me when you said the Coating must be “wet sanded” off to remove. Is that how you remove clients coatings? They in fact wear off from weather elements alone over a period of a couple years or more..
Coatings must be maintained for warranties.
Are you claiming they are impervious to bad wash methods? If so post up a video with you washing your coated car with filthy, dirt entrapped rags and show us the results.
I detailed the OP’s other vehicle with not a scratch in site after almost a year after the coating was applied but yet you want to impose that I did not give him what he paid for and that equals to no more than a $10 can of turtle wax? Your professionalism is ridiculous. If you were a pro detailer you should’ve stated that in the first place and not asked vague questions.
10-10-2018, 11:35 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
That is between me and the customer. My services are not in question here only to you. You question my work ethic yet you ignore the fact that I did his other vehicle also and it is still in impeccable condition a year later. If you really cared and wasn’t trying to be the tough guy on the Internet you would PM me get my phone number and talk to me in person.
10-10-2018, 11:44 AM
#35
Drifting
I won't speak to the current back and forth re: ceramic coatings, but in re: to the dealership liability I'm most certain what has happened is literally they cannot tell you who exactly is at fault because they simply do not know and that indeed does reflect very poorly of them but is not necessarily uncommon. Their line about "Corvettes not being washed except upon request" is probably some heavy bull. There are tons of service writers, detailers, lot guys, etc, constantly around at the high volume dealers. A service writer could have their own policy of saying "don't wash a particular model" or similar but a lot guy moving cars around probably has a consistent methodology they're used to. The mechanic finished the job (may have even test drove), the service writer wrote the ticket up, the car was off to the side, a lot guy or someone else moved the car, and at some point something happened that is typical for them but probably should not have. The issue then becomes no one wants to take responsibility or isn't coming forward because what happened cannot be specifically ascertained.
Again it's not necessarily a defense for the dealer whatsoever but it does reflect that more liability should be handled on behalf of the dealer. Some years ago I helped manage a ~345 unit fleet at a main & satellite shop and I knew constantly what every employee - including drivers - was doing to what unit and what each unit was being suspected to. Drivers were required to detail logs and any WOs for shop and lot staff were applied to anything that even included cleaning schedules and detail work; all for liability's sake.
Again it's not necessarily a defense for the dealer whatsoever but it does reflect that more liability should be handled on behalf of the dealer. Some years ago I helped manage a ~345 unit fleet at a main & satellite shop and I knew constantly what every employee - including drivers - was doing to what unit and what each unit was being suspected to. Drivers were required to detail logs and any WOs for shop and lot staff were applied to anything that even included cleaning schedules and detail work; all for liability's sake.
The following users liked this post:
CraigA (10-10-2018)
10-10-2018, 11:48 AM
#36
Racer
Member Since: Jul 2018
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 448
Received 219 Likes
on
131 Posts
C5 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
That is between me and the customer. My services are not in question here only to you. You question my work ethic yet you ignore the fact that I did his other vehicle also and it is still in impeccable condition a year later. If you really cared and wasn’t trying to be the tough guy on the Internet you would PM me get my phone number and talk to me in person.
I have looked into these coatings and the cheapest one still came with a 6 month warranty.
https://ceramicprosarasota.com/ceram...sport-package/
Why would there be no warranty on the work would be my question?
I brought this issue up to Ceramic Pro here and I was told an issue like this would be covered without question.
The following users liked this post:
JALLEN4 (10-10-2018)
10-10-2018, 11:58 AM
#37
Le Mans Master
Do you not warranty your work at all?
I have looked into these coatings and the cheapest one still came with a 6 month warranty.
https://ceramicprosarasota.com/ceram...sport-package/
Why would there be no warranty on the work would be my question?
I brought this issue up to Ceramic Pro here and I was told an issue like this would be covered without question.
I have looked into these coatings and the cheapest one still came with a 6 month warranty.
https://ceramicprosarasota.com/ceram...sport-package/
Why would there be no warranty on the work would be my question?
I brought this issue up to Ceramic Pro here and I was told an issue like this would be covered without question.
The Coating is still in place it is not gone the OP has washed his car since and can attest to that. Why would I repair the damage a Dealer did? If I hit a baseball through your window should the window company pay for it?
If the Coating had worn off due to improper application I would have fixed this months ago. This is simply a miscared for car by the Dealer.
Last edited by SSTG; 10-10-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: added *by the Dealer.
10-10-2018, 12:39 PM
#38
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: small town in S.E Pa. PA
Posts: 21,325
Received 3,812 Likes
on
1,925 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Most kids who wash cars ( entry level job ) at dealerships are the least paid employees and the least experienced in car care. Most of us here are fairly **** about our cars, however most car owners who take their car to the dealer are not so afflicted to the degree that we are. 95 % of the people who take their car to a dealer would be very pleased and braggadocios about the dealer washing their car after servicing it.. Its a shame this happened, and BTW.. security cameras are hooked up to a DVR to record and document issues.. these DVR usually hold at least a month of recorded Data ( so any issue can be reviewed in the event of a claim ). My home system holds 90 days of video data. If the car went in without a swirl mark, and came out with them, there is little doubt of who did it and why it became an issue. Personally, I would not trust the dealer to touch my car or attempt to correct this issue.
Good Luck
Bill
Good Luck
Bill
The following 3 users liked this post by Evil-Twin:
10-10-2018, 12:41 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Taildragers rule! USA1
Posts: 3,452
Received 338 Likes
on
211 Posts
The trouble with all the "boutique" coatings is they are expensive. HUGELY time consuming, and look bad after 15 minutes on the road.
I'd MUCH rather take 15 minutes with Turtlewax, look 99% as good as boutique, and still look bad after 15 minutes.
At least then, another 15 minutes and you're good to go.
I'd MUCH rather take 15 minutes with Turtlewax, look 99% as good as boutique, and still look bad after 15 minutes.
At least then, another 15 minutes and you're good to go.
10-10-2018, 01:27 PM
#40
The trouble with all the "boutique" coatings is they are expensive. HUGELY time consuming, and look bad after 15 minutes on the road.
I'd MUCH rather take 15 minutes with Turtlewax, look 99% as good as boutique, and still look bad after 15 minutes.
At least then, another 15 minutes and you're good to go.
I'd MUCH rather take 15 minutes with Turtlewax, look 99% as good as boutique, and still look bad after 15 minutes.
At least then, another 15 minutes and you're good to go.
The following users liked this post:
CraigA (10-10-2018)