arthursc2

I seriously doubt it would NOT produce downforce

Its probably worth 90lbs+ at 70mph

gimp

This one, right? https://www.c7carbon.com/c5-corvette...on-fiber-p-695

And these are the instructions, right? (warning, pdf download) https://www.c7carbon.com/download.php?pID=695

Maybe the C7 Carbon vendor can weigh in on this post.

What I see is the following:
- No mentions anywhere about downforce
- No mentions anywhere about wind tunnel testing nor modeling
- It drills into and attaches to the front bumper fascia, like, that big ol piece of semi-flexible fiberglass

My impression is that if it gives any downforce, it's mostly going to be by accident. Otherwise, it's entirely for looks.

Compare this to the APR splitter: http://aprperformance.com/racing-pro...ind-splitters/

- Mentions downforce, and mentions where you get downforce (mostly the front, as expected)
- Mentions attaching it to the subframe of the car, with reinforcements / supports

Even still, I see no actual measurements from anyone about actual downforce with this splitter.

Realistically, adding real, noticeable, usable, actionable downforce to a C5 corvette costs a lot of $, between the hardware you see, the hardware to mount it to the chassis, and the labor (as bodywork often has to be slightly modified.)

knewblewkorvette

arthursc2

So he said spoiler, and youre talking what most ppl refer to as splitter

Either you or I are confused, and I am not sure which at this point

Evil-Twin

for the uneducated car enthusiast.. a spoiler creates down force...but what most do not know is that down force creates drag, and increases gas consumption. I spent 80 hours in the original design of the C5. we shaved off 5 degrees of the rear fascia to decrease drag and increase fuel economy. ( the prime mandate was to design to avoid the gas guzzler tax..) You will notice the very top of the trailing edge of the facia is negative 5 degrees. This aero design on a coupe relates to 73 lbs. per square in down force at 60 mph. You need down force to keep the car from going airborne. I offer all this insider stuff to educate people here. But continue to get push back from people who know nothing about this car.

As Ive said here for 18 years everything is a trade off. At 150/200 mph you need an increase in down force to keep the car on the ground and the tires in full contact.. but you do not need it to pick up coffee at WAWA. There are indeed styling cues with race inspired designs. Spoilers on a Camelry are in the same category. A wing with canards of that race design on a street car will create a dramatic loss of fuel economy in the name of ( i'm not sure what ) the side canards are there to stabilize the car in a hard turn when doing 100 + . Anyone thinking there are no trade offs is just another amateur car enthusiast. Trying to help people with their decision, and giving good educated advice and guidance is something Ive tried to do since retiring despite that haters. Many people who fear open forum comment have asked me many times in private why I put up with the haters.My answer is that they are few and far between compared to the thousands of thank you's Ive received in private.
A wing is an unavoidable curse on a race car..its there to allow the horsepower to get from the motor to the ground. its the answer to lift.

gimp

You are totally right. My bad.

gimp

Also:

1) Bill aka ET is absolutely right. Wings look cool, but they make you slower in a straight line in exchange for having better traction; a proper wing setup should trade off some straight line speed for more turn speed and as a result offer better lap times. An improper wing setup is cute, but that's all. Pretty much no wing mounted to the bodywork (eg, the trunk) is going to offer more than a small amount of downforce, by the way.

As a side note, some new cars (eg, the newest Aventador) have wings with holes in them and little flaps that open and close inside the wing; this allows the air to bypass a bunch of the drag-inducing part of the wing in a straight line, but then change on-the-fly to give you more downforce (and drag) in the turns.

2) The C7Carbon rear spoiler seems to be secured ... well, glued or taped on to the rear body work (again, semi flexible fiberglass.) No mention of downforce in the description. It might give a little bit of downforce at high speed, sure, but I can't imagine it's much. 90+ pounds at 70mph? I'd be highly surprised. If it offered 90+ pounds at highway speeds, the first person to take it to the track and hit 140 would see it fly off. It's bling, nothing about it screams functionality. It's not "rice if you don't take it to the track", it's just pretty carbon-fiber stuff to stick onto your car to make it look nice. At least, this is my impression. I am very happy to be proven wrong by seeing modeling, or better yet, wind tunnel test results.

Evil-Twin

You are bias

Evil-Twin

a splitter is on the front of the car, its function is to divert air from going under the car by volume, that results in lifting the front of the car at high speeds.

arthursc2

Not everyone is uneducated. Your comment about haters was completely unprovoked and irrelevant.

Thank you for sharing the info about the rear of the car, that was neat

Actually have seen the double stick spoilers pop off, don't know the speed it happened at, but it was in the 1/4mi. However, just because the wing is generated XXlbs of downforce, doesnt mean that amount of force is linearly applied to the surface of the spoiler. I have a text book about this I would like to dig into before spouting more math a risk being referred to as uneducated in future posts concerning this

He was complimenting your ride

Evil-Twin

to the point, since the C5 by design will produce is own down force @ 73 lbs. per sq. in at 60 mpg and you add a wing that produces 100/ 200 lbs of down force when unnecessary, its like putting a couple hundred pound of cement in the trunk and hauling it around all day ,picking up groceries or taking a nice trip along the coast.. Most people who race are conscious of the weigh of fuel necessary to complete a race, and put no more than necessary because of the weight. adding unnecessary down force ( aka weight ) is not a plus, under any circumstances on a street car.

arthursc2

Thank you, I am aware of the difference, but I wasn't sure if the conversation digressed somewhere along the way from spoiler to splitter to wing

Evil-Twin

Go read your book. Education is like a key you put on your key chain. at some point that key will open a door to you. I use to say that to all my students when I was teaching engineering principles to 4th and 5th year engineering students.

Bill aka ET

arthursc2

I would love to read my book! You've probably read it too! Race Car Vehicle Dynamics. Its a glorious piece of literature; albeit I will not be reading it cover to cover anytime soon

Evil-Twin

I hope out of this that " WE are good "

I think where many of these threads go wrong is where opinion and criticism are considered the same thing. When someone asked me for my opinion ( to me ) that means an honest unsugar coated opinion. Knowing that if I say I like something , that means I like it, and you could take that to the bank. If I dont like something I will tactfully say I dont when asked, but I will never lie . I may have fallen short in that tactful part in the past. Many people just want you to tell them what they want to hear. I would rather not comment then compromise my own principles. Unsolicited criticism is another thing. I will admit that in the past the line between opinion and criticism has been blurred for me... Ive been trying to define that line over the last two years.
Bill aka ET

Evil-Twin

I dont want anyone Private messaging me, asking me what I did with the real Evil-Twin .

arthursc2

It's the internet. A collection of the most obnoxious and annoying people on the face of the planet hidden behind anonymity. Can't take anything here too seriously, unless it's your Social/bank/children's info that's been posted. The rest is just a textual representation of what someone is thinking and trying to convey, sometimes unsuccessfully, and sometimes by no fault of their own

FX VETTE

Tsumi

IMO the only race/track things that can benefit primarily street cars are functional rear diffusers and hood vents. Both function by reducing lift (not to be confused with increasing downforce) and thus reducing drag.

BlackHellcat

I can assure you that a spoiler properly installed with 3M tape, and nothing more, will not fly off at 140. Been there done that.