vettedapex

hey everyone thanks for the add. Im in the market for a c5. Im around 17k CAD budget and ive got my eyes on 2 cars. car #1 is a 01 c5 ls1 frc with 65 000 kms. car number 2 is a z06 with about 160 000kms.

with what i know about the ls1 vs ls6 is about 40 hp difference. im trying to decide if i go with z06 ls6 or a frc ls1 with 100 000kms less for the same price. i plan on mildly building the car for tracking.

so heres where i stand, the 40hp difference to me is easily made up with bolt ons, upgrading ect ect. plan will be cams injectors/ air side ect ect. nothing crazy. and i do plan on putting some aftermarket coilovers on the car too.

so to have a ls1 c5 with 65 000kms or a 02 c5 z06 ls6 with 160 000 and seeing as ill make up my power difference, be upgrading suspension as well, does it even make any sense to entertain a z06 with 100 000kms more? please help me out guys, put it in black and white for me and tell me im right? where else do you benefit from z06 opposed to frc that i wont be upgrading on a mildly built car anyways?

obviously for an owner that isnt going to build the car up its evident to try and grab a z06 but if im going to give it suspension upgrades and some more power, what am i paying for the z06 for?

Vetteman Jack

Moved to C5 General.

USAZR1

2001 frc?

~Josh

The other things the z brings to the table is the different transmission gearing, different suspension, and wider wheels/tires.

67Ranger

Part of the answer probably depends on the model year of each. If the power difference is only 40hp, I'm assuming you're looking at an 01 Z06.

Do you care about the extra power/will you upgrade it later?
Do you care about being slightly lighter, better suspension/wheels etc?

If you're going to upgrade the FRC to Z06 spec or better, you may be better off just buying the Z06 to begin with. If you don't care about the suspension, small weight difference, and power, then probably get the lower mile car. I think I would look at it as: If the FRC was a few thousand higher (to upgrade to Z06 performance) would you buy it? If the answer is yes, do it, if the answer is no, then buy the Z.

MacA1979

Just for clarification....

• FRC = Fixed Roof Coupe (no removable top)
• In model years '99 & '00, the FRC had the same LS1 engine as the Coupe and the Convertible.
• In '01 the FRC was designated as a Z06 with a 385HP LS6 engine (in addition to other performance upgrades over the coupe and convertible).
• In '02 -'04 the Z06 was upgraded to 405HP

Good luck with the search!!

Spaggs

Every time you buy a car, you have to consider the resale value. The ZO6 will hold its value better than a non-ZO6. The year and color also make a difference. An early year 2003 has the fuel filter outside the tank, while the late 03' and 04' have it inside the tank. The light weight hood on the 04' does help the resale value. Guys in the car sales business say "green means money" and "red means fast." I had a couple of buddies in the business tell me to never buy a silver car, but, to me, a silver car with black wheels and black accents really looks cool.

Decisions, decisions. Good luck.

Spaggs

Phanni

Because of the years the FRC were produced, I'd avoid one. The 97-00 C-5s have several electronic components that are no longer available from the dealer, and very expensive on the pre used market. The 2001 and up have parts not available, but most are repairable, unlike the early models. Go with a 20023 and up Z06, 2001 Zs have a few (not all) with oil burning problems.

killian96ss

If you like the look of the FRC then just get the Z06. If you have $17k to work with I'm sure you could find a lower mileage Z. I would look at 02-03 and plan on at least swapping the valve springs since they are a known problem.

Steve

jjc508520

I agree! ('00 FRC)

Jackie N

He has $17k Canadian to work with, which up here barely buys a high mileage Z

Boeuf

Based on the fact that he plans on modding it, I would guess he's budgeting $17k for the car and then has a small amount on top of that for mods available.

If that's the case, I would invest all of it into the cleanest Z you can find and leave it stock.

A stock C5Z is a very respectable car on the track and more than enough car for an average driver on track.

Then all a C5Z really needs is stickier tires and better brake pads and it'll hang with much newer and much more expensive cars all day.

That's what I would do.

vettedapex

i will re read the above posts. to carify, i plan on putting a different wheelset on at some point anyway. so why recomend the z06? if the trans gearing, ls1 to ls6 (40hp) lighter wheels and a few other benefits are the main differences i would get the hp back in intake/exhaust and so on, so im basically buying a z for suspension at that point, which again, i ideally will replace as well. i plan to keep the car and mildly build it over time. im not totally looking for resale or anything else other than the best bang for buck without buying a z specifically for certain things that will be getting upgraded anyways

vettedapex

what electrical components are we talking about?

Beer:30

The EBCM in particular.
Earlier ones can not be repaired and no more are being built so a specific economic theory is reflected in the price.
2001 and later can be repaired.
The failure is not fatal, it just means you don't have traction control and ABS. Stuff I grew up and survived without, but still really prefer and do like to have.

Beer:30

Oh, I mean Eh... if you are in Canadia...TCS and ABS are required...or at least the warning light removed from the dash if they are inoperable.

Mike98SilVert

These are many of the differences between a C5 Z06 and C5 FRC/Coupe, taken from an article on the 2001 Z06 when it first debuted. Check the links at the bottom for the many changes for the 2002-2004 Z06's....

Aluminum Block
The aluminum block casting on the LS6 deletes machined holes in the LS1 bulkhead and adds cast-in "windows" that allow better bay-to-bay breathing. On the down stroke, the pistons push air back toward the crankcase, creating back pressure or resistance, and that translates into parasitic horsepower loss because it resists piston motion. With the over travel windows, air is allowed to move more freely between crankcase bays, thus relieving the unwanted pressure.

Pistons
LS6 pistons are cast from high-strength M142 aluminum alloy and reshaped with a slightly different profile than those in the LS1. In side view, the LS6 pistons have a slight barrel shape, almost imperceptible to the naked eye. The new alloy increases engine durability at racetrack operating levels, while the shape reduces internal mechanical noise.

Increased Compression
The LS6's aluminum cylinder heads are cast with pent-roof combustion chambers that are smaller than the LS1's. Compression ratio increases from 10.1:1 to 10.5:1, improving thermal efficiency and increasing horsepower. Intake and exhaust ports in the LS6 head are refined and more precisely cast, contributing to the engine's overall increase in volumetric efficiency.

High-Profile Camshaft
The LS6-specific, steel-billet camshaft contributes more than any other single piece of hardware to the LS6's horsepower gain. In simple terms, the cam opens the valves quicker and allows more air to flow into the combustion chambers. Cam lift increases from the LS1's 12.7mm to 13.3mm.

Stronger Valve Springs
To accommodate valve operation with the high lift/long duration cam, the LS6's valve springs are stiffer and sturdier. They are made from the same steel wire as those in the LS1 but are wound tighter for a higher spring rate.

Fuel Injectors
Additional air flowing into the LS6 heads would serve no purpose without an equivalent increase in the amount of fuel to take advantage of it. New injectors increase maximum fuel delivery from the LS1's 3.3 grams per second to 3.6 grams per seconds, for a 10 percent improvement.

Internal PCV System
The LS6's application in the Corvette Z06 creates additional demands on the crankcase ventilation system. The Z06 is capable of cornering at more than 1 lateral g, requiring a special high-performance ventilation system. To prepare the Z06 for all-out driving, the LS6's PCV system is moved into the engine's V, or valley. The unique aluminum valley cover incorporates composite oil-separating baffles and PCV plumbing. All of this reduces oil consumption during high-performance driving and, as an added benefit, also reduces the amount of external plumbing, eliminating potential oil-leak sources.

Exhaust Manifolds
Thin-wall cast-iron exhaust manifolds replace the previous stainless steel manifolds to improve durability, given the LS6 engine's potential for being involved in sustained high-speed driving.

Exhaust System
To further maximize the breathing capabilities of the LS6 and significantly reduce vehicle mass, a new titanium exhaust system was developed for the Z06. This marks the first-ever use of titanium in the exhaust system of a mass-production vehicle. The titanium portion of the Z06's exhaust system starts just forward of the rear axle, then goes over the top of the axle to the muffler. The entire muffler, all of its internal parts and exterior skin, the outlet pipes, including the exhaust tips, are constructed of titanium. The Z06 muffler is a completely new design featuring larger-diameter louver tubes inside the mufflers to reduce backpressure and provide less restriction for the exhaust gases flowing through the system. The exhaust tips are different too, with four 3.5-in.-dia. tips to visually set the Z06 apart from the standard Corvette. Titanium offers a lower density than steel, and higher strength than either magnesium or aluminum at all temperatures. It reduces the Z06's weight by 17.6 pounds a whopping 50 percent reduction compared to the weight of the stainless steel exhaust system used on the Corvette coupe and convertible. In addition to easing exhaust gas restrictions, reducing mass and looking distinctive, this exhaust system sounds more aggressive than that of the standard Corvette. Considerable time and effort went into the design and tuning of the mufflers to ensure an exhaust note that would be unique to the Z06.

Powertrain Enhancements
In addition to providing more power and better fuel economy, Corvette engineers upgraded the operation and durability of the rest of the Corvette powertrain.

Stronger Driveshaft
The driveshaft is upgraded from a metalmatrix composite to aluminum alloy 6061, and it is increased in diameter from 55mm to 63mm. Driveshaft couplings have also been upgraded on manual-equipped models for additional strength and durability.

M12 6-Speed Manual
This transmission is unique to the Z06, and is the only transmission available for that model. It is not available on Corvette coupes or convertibles. It has more aggressive gearing to increase torque multiplication in most forward gears, allowing for more rapid acceleration and more usable torque at higher speeds. A transmission temperature sensor was added to protect the M12 from higher thermal stresses. The sensor warns the driver via the Driver Information Center with a TRANS OVER TEMP light if thermal loads become excessive, meaning that the transmission could be damaged if not allowed to cool down.

Gear Ratios
LS1/MM6 LS6/M12
1st Gear 2.66:1 2.97:1
2d Gear 1.78:1 2.07:1
3d Gear 1.30:1 1.43:1
4th Gear 1.00:1 1.00:1
5th Gear 0.74:1 0.84:1
6th Gear 0.50:1 0.56:1
Reverse 2.90:1 3.28:1


Synchronizers
Carbon blocker rings have been installed on all manual transmission forward gears to provide for smoother shifts and additional robustness.

FE4 Suspension
The Z06 features a suspension system all its own designated FE4. It's not available on other Corvette models but is standard equipment on the Z06. It features a larger front stabilizer bar, a stiffer rear leaf spring, revised camber settings and unique shock calibrations, all engineered with a bias toward maximum control during high-speed operation. The suspension component specifications are: Front stabilizer bar diameter (hollow): 30mm with 4.5mm-thick walls. Rear transverse composite spring leaf: 125 N/mm versus 113 N/mm of the Z51. Camber, front and rear: Z06: -0.75° (coupe/convertible: -0.25°). The Z06's negative camber helps to keep the tire flatter in relation to the road, and raises the tire contact patch for greater grip while cornering. When coupled with other special Z06 components, the combination provides unparalleled, all-out racetrack performance, which is what the Z06 is all about. During development testing, Corvette engineers were able to generate racetrack speeds that improved Z06 performance by an average of 3 to 4 seconds per lap over last year's hardtop model on typical 2-mile closed-circuit road courses. This we were able to test for ourselves at the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course in Lexington, where we had the chance to drive a standard coupe and a Z06, back to back.

Wheels
Z06 wheels are wider front and rear than those on the standard Corvette: The new wheels are also one of the visual identifiers for the Z06, letting onlookers know that this car is something special.

Air Management
Functional air inlets in the center of the front fascia deliver cool air to the intake system. Air scoops on the rear rocker panels funnel air to the rear brakes for better cooling. Z06 rear brake temperatures are reduced by as much as 10 percent under competition conditions. Brake fade and wear are greatly reduced.

Appearance
Z06 emblems are placed on the front fenders. Front and rear disc brake calipers on the Z06 are painted red. Inside, the Z06 includes a different instrument cluster with stylized graphics and a higher 6500 rpm redline.

The Z06's leather-trimmed seating surfaces include additional side bolstering to hold driver and passenger firmly in place during high lateral load maneuvers, and a Z06 logo is embroidered into the headrests.

You can read more in the following 2 links. The first link is from when the 2001 Z06 was introduced and the second shows the changes for the 2002 model year Z06. The 2003-2004 Z06's were the basically the same as the 2002 except for the shocks in the '04:

2001 Z06 info: http://www.z06vette.com/01.php


2002 thru 2004 Z06 info: http://www.z06vette.com/02.php

2001 thru 2004 Z06 info: http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l#.UbfqaUnD_IU

jrob56

OP lost me right here as well. That car doesnt actually exist.

turabo87

Dang that's a nice pic!! That's not pewter but silver right?

Anyway, my $0.02, the best car comes down to the combination of things you happen to value more in your decision vs. what's actually available in front of you to decide at that moment. I know it's a vague answer, but it's the general truth. At my time of purchase, I happened to value more the 'look' of the FRC/Z06 body (no major difference here), the lower curb weight (which are essentially close to equal), spartan simplicity of the hardtop (same FRC/Z06), price point accessibility (FRC's are cheaper, but are a bit more rare so they're a bit harder to find I'd say), mechanical condition, miles and obviously PRICE POINT. I wanted to go for the performance bargain and at that moment I happened to find it on a clean title, good mechanical condition, near stock '99 FRC 6speed with 80k miles and $11k price point. Albeit it wasn't a cosmetically perfect example but I had TLC plans for her as well as mod goals and it was just at the right price point for me for my goals, plans and tradeoffs that I was willing to have. If you care more for the Z06 flagship status, the heritage, the pedigree...etc. as well as the obvious performance bumps (especially if you plan to keep it stock), and resale value, then maybe the Z06 is the clear answer. If you plan for mods and jumping on the need for speed train, I don't think it will really matter that much in the end. Once you're deep within mods such as replacing oil pumps, valvesprings, cams, injectors....you've then already gone past the point to care about the LS1 vs LS6 differences so it doesn't even matter at that point. At their core, LS1's are stout just as LS6's, and despite what "the specs" say, I'd dare to say that they are generally both almost equally robust and at the same time you will here some catastrophic failures from both too. I said 'stout', not 'bulletproof'. To end my rant, I think I would probably go for the lower mile and/or better condition example of the two as long as it's within my budget. Anything can go wrong in either of them too! Good luck!!!