C5Dobie

I had plans of putting an A&A kit on my C5Z which got derailed when those funds went to a new DD after a deer totaled my truck- my DD is a Ford Raptor- which is relevant in that as far as trucks go, it’s about as high performance as you can get.

i have a 4 year old boy w/ another boy on the way- he is old enough now to already appreciate “gear head stuff” in the sense he always points out “big trucks” even correcting his day care teacher when I pulled up she says Hunter dad’s here I see his new truck- his reply? “That’s not a truck is a waptah” 😂😂 He’ll go to local car shows w/ me & gets a kick out of all the rides etc. he loves riding w/ me on our Yama waverunner or Polaris ATV etc etc

it sucks he cannot ride w/ me in my most beloved motorized thing of all time- my 42xxx mile C5Z I bought 7+ years ago, put 30k miles on & plenty of time/$$$/sweat equity etc making it perfect.

My situation/budget is such- I started putting $$$ aside again & I have no vehicle payments other than our wave runner (simply b/c it was so cheap & financed @ 1.9%) I don’t want to take on a loan any bigger than $5k & don’t want to part w/ more than $10k cash since that’s what it would take to “finish” my C5Z build (I’d do A&A kit, new radiator, meth, clutch, & have the A-arms/spindles remover powder coated w/ new ball joints/bushings) I’ve contemplated “upgrading” to a newer Vette- C6 grand sport, C6Z or ZR1, C7 GS etc but ruled that out since it’d be more $$$ & would wind up w/ a monthly payment a new mod list & still have a performance car my kids can’t ride in. As it is my wife doesn’t like getting in my C5Z b/c “it shakes, it smells like gas, it’s scary & hurts my back + I can’t get in or out when im pregnant” fair enough😜 those are also many of the things I like about it haha only person who rides w/ me in it is my 80 lb Doberman & I need to stuff a bunch of outdoor pillows in the passenger footwell so she has a spot to lounge.

so all that being said I started shopping some potential replacement vehicles w/ requirements being: manual tranny, back seat (size not too important as I’m only 5’8 just need to be able to install a car seat), & stay within a budget that would be my C5Z + $10k cash & a loan that tries to stay within $5k +\- a few.

i test drove a charger hellcat- while not M6 & outta my price range I wanted to check out the SRTs & figures try out the top dog. Loved how smooth/comfy the ride was, loved the stock exhaust note, but I was not impressed w/ the acceleration given the blower & 707hp rating & coming off a 440whp 3100 lb C5Z I even commented in the C7Z06 forum how underwhelmed I was. I actually feel the regular SRT8 charger may be faster on the street since the hellcat seemed to be spinning tires sacrificing acceleration all the time. Undoubtedly fun tho. I need to drive a challenger SRT8 w/ a stick shift to Make a decision on the mopar stuff.

i drove a new mustang GT & also a used GT350 - fun to toss around, but overall didn’t feel as solidly built as the new Camaros & I’m not really a “ford guy” despite having the raptor & im certainly not a mustang guy- again, underwhelmed by the performance however the GT350 did check most of the boxes but too much $$$- maybe a used one is doable. I’ve heard the voodoo motors have reliability issues though which scares me & the N/A mod potential isn’t the same as the LS/LTx platform.

i like the Camaro as far as looks/power/handling goes & it reminds me most of my C5Z, but I really like the ZL1 or the older gen Z28 & they’re on the higher end price wise. An SS w/ 1LE new out me out of my budget slightly but may be doable- the detractor is I really hate the interior.

now for the reason/main topic of the thread. I drove a CPO 2017 BMW M2 w/10k miles in Laguna blue & stick shift. Although small the interior felt comfy & roomy enough for me & surprisingly the back seat accommodates a car seat better than a mustang. The interior fit/finish is obviously very good & what drew me to this car overall is that it reminded me of “old school” M cars- I pretty much am not interested in most other BMW cars. This car had an M performance exhaust that sounded unique & the tossability of this thing on the street was amazing. I don’t think it could hang w/ aC5Z on a track, but on the street it’s different. The seating position is perfect for me. I love the color & the modern amenities -although it doesn’t have nav, adaptive cruise, blind sport or that nonsense it’s obviously way more modern than a C5Z & more civil to drive- it has no adjustable suspension settings & is truly harsh for a factory car, but is an improvement over my 3/4” lowered C5Z riding on Bilsteins & thicker sways w/ metal endlnks & poly sway bushings. My wife would probably approve. It’s got 365hp/370tq but I imagine those figures are slightly underrated. Stock it’ll do the 1/4 in 12.7 & 0-60 in 4.3, so not too far behind a stock C5Z. The upside w/ the bimer is I don’t see any need to mod it in terms of looks/interior, the exhaust is done, it’s a turbo 6 so a tune alone should give it a serious kick in the pants & more power could be made I’m sure above that when you get into downpipes/intercooler etc if I wanted to go that route. The tranny was quite smooth but the shifter had a lot of slop in it compared to the MGW in my C5Z so that would be one thing I’d possibly upgrade. The dealer has this car listed @ $39.5k my guess is could be bad for $35k & I could probably sell my C5Z for $20k anyhow so it’s within budget.

the other car I checked out (flame suit on) was a new civic type R & guess what? An absolute hoot to drive!! Made me wanna drive like An animal everywhere. Has 4 doors! Reliable & w/ a new car warranty! What I don’t like? FWD (although torque steer is almost non-existent) & it looks like a damn joke. I’m almost 40....I know that shouldn’t be as big a factor, but the bmw is a MUCH sexier looking ride.

my last thought - I mentioned the Raptor b/c it also is VERY fun to drive as far as big vehicles go, it’s the only truck/full size SUV I’ve ever driven that has true steering feel/feedback & actually handles much better than you can imagine. While probably unknown to this crowd, guys w/ tune only are putting down 450whp & 530tq- adding a larger front mount intercooler + turbo adapters & CAI & you’re making even slightly more power & it’ll also “always be there” - less prone to heat soak. I have 9k troublefree miles on the truck now but have a 100k b2b warranty so that’s holding me back- a handheld tuner/custom tune runs around $750, you can load the stock tune back @ anytime, but techs can see ignition cycles & if they wanted to may void warranty work in the future. I do think tho tuning the raptor would satisfy my itch to have a more family friendly performance vehicle w/o sacrificing my C5Z or laying out nearly as much cash, but I’d be gambling w/ the power train portion of the warranty.

what does the forum think?

~Josh

Porsche 911?

Old School

Sounds like you want an M2

saleen556

I’ll suggest you look at the M3 as well. The M2 is quite small and the kid will grow. If payment is a big deal you may shop for a good lease. The M3 and M4 actually lease fairly well at times of the year. A 63% residual is common. I had a 16 M3 and it was great with the kids.

Phanni

Prepare to spend a lot $$$ on maintenance.

70RT440

A year ago, I bought my first BMW.

It is also my LAST BMW.

I will never forget the mechanic's face when I asked him if all BMWs were this bad.

He said, "well...they're not as bad as Audis."

Get the Civic. You'll be glad you did.

bluewire

I have to agree with this had a BMW 328ix, and I can tell you I will never own another German car again!

Vetteman Jack

If you want something reliable yet fun to drive, the Civic may be the car. Rather expensive for a Civic, but what car isn't anymore. The BMWs look good, but IMO, repairs are expensive when the car is out of warranty.

3sACROWD

If the Raptor supports your needs, keep it and do the tune after you get 30k+ miles. After 30k miles, statistically the likelihood of having issues before 100k go way down. That is why manufacturers are willing to warranty the powertrain that long.

Why can't you take your son in the Vette? Is that due to not being able to fit 3.5 people in it? The Vettes have the LATCH system in them for car seats. (At least my 03 Z does)

DDaaryl

I'd do the Civic long before the BMW. As you may already know, BMW stands for "BRING MY WALLET".

jackthelad

Had a buddy who was a long time Audi owner. When I expressed mild interest in picking up his S4 stickshift wagon with the 4.2 V8, he said, don't do it. You never want to own one out of warranty. The costs of parts and labor are enormous. The other Germans tend to be the same way.

p.s. if you want to keep costs way down and still have 4 seats and fun to drive factor, pick up one the the last Pontiac GTO's, aka Holden Monaro's. They go for around $12-14k it seems. The C6 LS2 unit, with either MN6 or auto trans.

KnightDriveTV

Well man (OP), you definitely hit all the right targets...we're on the same mindset rails, that's for sure. I've owned a bunch of stuff...italian, german, japanese (like over 100 for real), and american. The C5Z is a pretty unique blend of cost/performance/return and that's what makes it such a hard car to depart from. The weight and the power, despite todays HUGE power numbers out of the big 3, they also come with a huge *** (mass), so the potency isn't quite there. I mean...keepin it real, you want to experience a machine, drive a 450whp 1992 Civic hatchback (I built Honda's for over 10yrs out of 2 shops I owned)...that car is party time of wheel spin, ferocious acceleration and I could build that for like 6500...lol.

So...clearly you want a back seat...this becomes the issue. Problem with German is...well, if you're gonna go German, BMW is probably the easiest to live with, but there still comes a cost. The M2 is definitely a car that has had my attention...I love it....but I don't love it for 40k...or even 35k. I think I love it for 20k...mostly due to ownership issues.

Dodge....SRT....please don't....just don't be in that crowd. Unless you're buying a Viper...please don't.

I think your choices are:

C5Z...if you keep it where it is, you aren't losing any money really...these cars are price stable for years now, for the mostpart. Mods are the only money you'll sink, that's unrecoverable...for now. Tune the Raptor and flirt with warranty problems. In my shop though, I'd always tell customers once they hit a point....don't mod your daily. You need to know the limits and let that be that.

M2...it's a nice car, but you're going to instantly spend, as well as be losing money. That aside, you get a return for the cash theoretically, in terms of options, due to the rear seat. It's still a pretty small car with german problems though...so I don't know.

Civic Type R...I too have driven one and yeah, they're a LOT more fun that people think, and very capable at that, if you're not a drag racer. You put that car through its paces in the twisties, it's no joke. Unfortunately, they let American Honda design it and apparently some folks in Ohio felt they "knew" what it should look like...and apparently they were the guys with body kits in 2003 that everyone from my shop would laugh at. The Type R is cartoony looking and frankly, if I bought one, I'd seek out an aftermarket bumper setup, front and rear to tone down the styling. Performance and comfort wise though...hell, I was impressed.

5th gen Z28 is out...prices have gone loony with the recent news of no 6th gen Z. ZL1's are still too pricey. The SS 1LE is a great car and it's an option to entertain I think, as is the GT350. Having driven both back to back though...the SS wins that argument all day. I was disappointed how poorly the GT350 stacks up...the SS 1LE feels potent by comparison.

Last option you didn't mention...2011+ CTS-V. C6 ZR1 power, very moddable, very roomy and can look pretty sick. 6spd/4dr, LOTS of room, and I've driven them HARD on a road course (Monticello Motor Club)...you can pound on that big thing for 3 laps easy before the pedal got soft and I was hitting some crazy triple digits on the back stretch in that beast.

turabo87

If you're a fearless DIYer and mechanically ready to tackle maintenance, I'd dare to say 2000-2003 E39 BMW M5. A $10k one with $10k maintenance/unforeseen repairs/mods budget = $20k. 6speed manual, 400HP (about 350WHP stock) coming from a N/A 5.0, RWD with LSD, and supremely balanced machine. I owned one and I enjoyed it very much. Like the C5, it was at that time where electronics weren't too overbaring to be able to deal with today with repairs.

Tenshots1

Go civic type R! Less money, less depreciation, more unique! I have a lot of friends with BMWs and have never found 1 to be without constant issues. Im shocked to see so many on the road. Someone is getting lucky i guess.

BlackHellcat

M4 > M2 by a mile IMO

c5arlen

And the wife's wallet.. and the kids college fund...and any hope for a break from living in the BMW service center waiting room... BMW the absolute most costly car I've ever owned. ..and it was only 3 years old.! The C5 is the least costly car I've EVER owned and it's 20 years old!

Rick369

Check out a 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP with 6 speed manual transmission. LS3 engine puts out 415 hp in stock form. Loads of room for you, wife, son and baby on the way.

zipity

I was looking for a reliable daily driver but added in two more specifics, all wheel drive and a manual transmission. I ended up with a CPO 2018 BMW 340 xdrive and I am thrilled with it. CPO warranty comes with unlimited mile warranty and mine is good for 6 years and 3 years of maintenance.
But to your question the Civic Type R is a great car but missed some of the creature comforts i wanted, heated seats, home link to name a few. I came out of a really fun car, and I can agree, i need a flame suit, but I drove a 4 door Mini Cooper S with a John Cooper Works tune and it was a thrill to drive. The Mini would be something to consider if you are thinking about the Civic. The Mini has BMW motor and transmission and fit and finish is better than the Civic or Focus RS.

From the used market and if all wheel drive is not a concern, then I would go with a Chevy SS Sedan or Pontiac G8 GXP, both have an LS3 and can be tuned for even more fun.

JerriVette

I would go for the bmw m2 way before id ever get a honda civic type R.

sorry just not my thing.

the M2, M3 would be my choice.

fidelity sells warranties for cars like this ...

otherwise a mustang gt or a preowned 6 th Camaro ss or ss 1LE would be my choice.

Porsche 911 997 would be in the running as well.

goodluck

wamara

Just a random thought but have you looked at a Volkswagen Golf R? Not as powerful as some you’re considering, but fun to drive, manual trans, 4 doors for the kids, 6 yr warranty. Couldn’t hurt to look...