[Z06] 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout
05-07-2003, 12:24 AM
#121
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (rbartick)
We have a Gen II GTS and a Z06 in my family and I've raced (driven) both of them.
RBartick has been spouting off like some kind of viper guru for months because his brother has one.......if his brother is half the weenie RBartick
is, he doesn't even heat the tires before a run and doesn't have 10K miles on the car ()but 50 hours of equivalent auto-tap)............keep waxing on rbartick
"posted by a Z06 owner who likes vipers and doesn't like psyeudo viper opinions"
05-07-2003, 09:41 AM
#122
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (moparmike)
Viper Dyno numbers:
452.7 rwhp & 503.1 ft-lbs - Y2K3SRT
447.5 rwhp & 490.1 ft-lbs - CajunViper
445.0 rwhp & 483.0 ft-lbs - John Myrick
440.0 rwhp & 487.4 ft-lbs - Frank 03SR
418.0 rwhp & ????? ft-lbs - Sir Fang
John now has headers, exhaust, and an airbox.
475 SAE corrected HP and 505 SAE corrected torque to the tires.
As for my comments. I NEVER said that I beat a Viper from a roll. If you will read my posts, I specifically said that I lost to the Viper from a roll, and that I beat it from a dead stop. But that I felt that this wasn't a good comparison since I can launch on the street better than John can. As for going from a roll. John is quite capable of running his car from a roll.
As for the weight:
My car weighs 3021-3051 without me in it. Just over 3200-3250 with me and all my gear in the car.
As for the SRT-10.
(From VCA)
With me (at 225 lbs) in the car and a 1/2 tank of gas, I was surprised at the findings.
Total weight- (all 4 wheels on the scale) 3620 lbs
Front weight- 1760
Rear weight - 1880
-----------------------
3385 on my race scales with no one in the car and 5/8tank
-----------------------
The delta is closer to 400lbs, not 200. And it you will look at John's quote he comes out and states that with the extra HP the Viper has, it was just edging out the Z06. As I said, I'd say he is one to talk since he owns a C4, a C5, a GenII, and a Gen III Viper. I think he probably has a good idea what he is talking about...
But I will point out yet again, on our run from 0-150. I pulled him by 2 or so out out of the hole. At 150 I was still leading him. How is that possible?
I think many of you need to stop magazine racing and actually get out there and put your car where your mouth is... Stop talking about how fast it might be and show me how fast it is... Until folks start regularly beating an 11.77 in an SRT-10 I will still belive the delta is much closer than has been posted.
As for the tracks being closed, my local track has been open since January. In fact it is too hot now to make record setting runs since the heat and humidity have returned in force. The NHRA season is already going on, so the track better be open...
[Modified by J-Rod, 9:42 AM 5/7/2003]
[Modified by J-Rod, 9:50 AM 5/7/2003]
452.7 rwhp & 503.1 ft-lbs - Y2K3SRT
447.5 rwhp & 490.1 ft-lbs - CajunViper
445.0 rwhp & 483.0 ft-lbs - John Myrick
440.0 rwhp & 487.4 ft-lbs - Frank 03SR
418.0 rwhp & ????? ft-lbs - Sir Fang
John now has headers, exhaust, and an airbox.
475 SAE corrected HP and 505 SAE corrected torque to the tires.
As for my comments. I NEVER said that I beat a Viper from a roll. If you will read my posts, I specifically said that I lost to the Viper from a roll, and that I beat it from a dead stop. But that I felt that this wasn't a good comparison since I can launch on the street better than John can. As for going from a roll. John is quite capable of running his car from a roll.
As for the weight:
My car weighs 3021-3051 without me in it. Just over 3200-3250 with me and all my gear in the car.
As for the SRT-10.
(From VCA)
With me (at 225 lbs) in the car and a 1/2 tank of gas, I was surprised at the findings.
Total weight- (all 4 wheels on the scale) 3620 lbs
Front weight- 1760
Rear weight - 1880
-----------------------
3385 on my race scales with no one in the car and 5/8tank
-----------------------
The delta is closer to 400lbs, not 200. And it you will look at John's quote he comes out and states that with the extra HP the Viper has, it was just edging out the Z06. As I said, I'd say he is one to talk since he owns a C4, a C5, a GenII, and a Gen III Viper. I think he probably has a good idea what he is talking about...
But I will point out yet again, on our run from 0-150. I pulled him by 2 or so out out of the hole. At 150 I was still leading him. How is that possible?
I think many of you need to stop magazine racing and actually get out there and put your car where your mouth is... Stop talking about how fast it might be and show me how fast it is... Until folks start regularly beating an 11.77 in an SRT-10 I will still belive the delta is much closer than has been posted.
As for the tracks being closed, my local track has been open since January. In fact it is too hot now to make record setting runs since the heat and humidity have returned in force. The NHRA season is already going on, so the track better be open...
[Modified by J-Rod, 9:42 AM 5/7/2003]
[Modified by J-Rod, 9:50 AM 5/7/2003]
05-07-2003, 11:03 AM
#123
Instructor
Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (J-Rod)
Fine. So you will believe what you want and I will know what I know...Discussion done....
FWIW I havent seen any documented 11.9 runs from bone stock Z06's as claimed, in any publications...But Ive seen 11.7 run by a "old" GTS by Evan Smith in mags and an 11.9 from Popular Mechanics...Thats two mags plus other board members that have hit 11's on a stock GTS. So we all know what its capable of. BTW these 11sec runs were on rolling stock not DR's...
We all know that et is a result of traction out the hole and the Vettes are better out the hole than the torque laden Viper...But by the end of the 1/4 though the Viper has a 3-4mph advantage that will only increase to 150mph and beyond......
Its funny to me that us car guys always thrash a mag when the results aint too favorable for our cars{in some cases it is a legitimate argument]...So mag racing is whack...So is internet racing.....I dont believe everything I hear on the net....Ive street raced and know of alot of "stock" claiming guys with tricks up their sleaves....
Its just funny to me that all these professional race car drivers that are doing some of the tests on the same day cant seem to get anywhere near some of the claims made about the Z06....Its always slower in the acceleration but definately holds it own on the track against the Viper. ....Ive seen first hand what a GTS looks like from the back at those speeds in a friends bpu+ Supra..
I hate these discussions because it alway degenerates into someone thinking its an attack on "insert car here"....Im an open minded person so even if car x is faster than a Vette doesnt mean I would love the Vette any less...Theres always someone faster...
FWIW I havent seen any documented 11.9 runs from bone stock Z06's as claimed, in any publications...But Ive seen 11.7 run by a "old" GTS by Evan Smith in mags and an 11.9 from Popular Mechanics...Thats two mags plus other board members that have hit 11's on a stock GTS. So we all know what its capable of. BTW these 11sec runs were on rolling stock not DR's...
We all know that et is a result of traction out the hole and the Vettes are better out the hole than the torque laden Viper...But by the end of the 1/4 though the Viper has a 3-4mph advantage that will only increase to 150mph and beyond......
Its funny to me that us car guys always thrash a mag when the results aint too favorable for our cars{in some cases it is a legitimate argument]...So mag racing is whack...So is internet racing.....I dont believe everything I hear on the net....Ive street raced and know of alot of "stock" claiming guys with tricks up their sleaves....
Its just funny to me that all these professional race car drivers that are doing some of the tests on the same day cant seem to get anywhere near some of the claims made about the Z06....Its always slower in the acceleration but definately holds it own on the track against the Viper. ....Ive seen first hand what a GTS looks like from the back at those speeds in a friends bpu+ Supra..
I hate these discussions because it alway degenerates into someone thinking its an attack on "insert car here"....Im an open minded person so even if car x is faster than a Vette doesnt mean I would love the Vette any less...Theres always someone faster...
05-07-2003, 12:22 PM
#124
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (SnakeBitten)
Fine. So you will believe what you want and I will know what I know...Discussion done....
------
Your such a kidder, discussion done-------
---------------
FWIW I havent seen any documented 11.9 runs from bone stock Z06's as claimed, in any publications...But Ive seen 11.7 run by a "old" GTS by Evan Smith in mags and an 11.9 from Popular Mechanics...Thats two mags plus other board members that have hit 11's on a stock GTS. So we all know what its capable of. BTW these 11sec runs were on rolling stock not DR's...
--------
Just for some imformation doe you. Read the whole test when evan smith drove an 01 Z06 against the viper. He says he only got one clean run in the Z06 as he was haveing truble shifting the Z06 and diden't figuer it out. Not so with the vipper(he had driven vipers before) all clean runs. As far as your not haveing seen a Z06 on stock tires with stock air box run 11.9? See the time slip I posted in performance section on other Z06 board, then check the NE section of your viper board for the post by red rt10(cant remember his name) who was there running when I ran. That was a 01 not my 02.
-------------------
We all know that et is a result of traction out the hole and the Vettes are better out the hole than the torque laden Viper...But by the end of the 1/4 though the Viper has a 3-4mph advantage that will only increase to 150mph and beyond......
Its funny to me that us car guys always thrash a mag when the results aint too favorable for our cars{in some cases it is a legitimate argument]...So mag racing is whack...So is internet racing.....I dont believe everything I hear on the net....Ive street raced and know of alot of "stock" claiming guys with tricks up their sleaves....
Its just funny to me that all these professional race car drivers that are doing some of the tests on the same day cant seem to get anywhere near some of the claims made about the Z06....Its always slower in the acceleration but definately holds it own on the track against the Viper. ....Ive seen first hand what a GTS looks like from the back at those speeds in a friends bpu+ Supra..
I hate these discussions because it alway degenerates into someone thinking its an attack on "insert car here"....Im an open minded person so even if car x is faster than a Vette doesnt mean I would love the Vette any less...Theres always someone faster...
------
Your such a kidder, discussion done-------
---------------
FWIW I havent seen any documented 11.9 runs from bone stock Z06's as claimed, in any publications...But Ive seen 11.7 run by a "old" GTS by Evan Smith in mags and an 11.9 from Popular Mechanics...Thats two mags plus other board members that have hit 11's on a stock GTS. So we all know what its capable of. BTW these 11sec runs were on rolling stock not DR's...
--------
Just for some imformation doe you. Read the whole test when evan smith drove an 01 Z06 against the viper. He says he only got one clean run in the Z06 as he was haveing truble shifting the Z06 and diden't figuer it out. Not so with the vipper(he had driven vipers before) all clean runs. As far as your not haveing seen a Z06 on stock tires with stock air box run 11.9? See the time slip I posted in performance section on other Z06 board, then check the NE section of your viper board for the post by red rt10(cant remember his name) who was there running when I ran. That was a 01 not my 02.
-------------------
We all know that et is a result of traction out the hole and the Vettes are better out the hole than the torque laden Viper...But by the end of the 1/4 though the Viper has a 3-4mph advantage that will only increase to 150mph and beyond......
Its funny to me that us car guys always thrash a mag when the results aint too favorable for our cars{in some cases it is a legitimate argument]...So mag racing is whack...So is internet racing.....I dont believe everything I hear on the net....Ive street raced and know of alot of "stock" claiming guys with tricks up their sleaves....
Its just funny to me that all these professional race car drivers that are doing some of the tests on the same day cant seem to get anywhere near some of the claims made about the Z06....Its always slower in the acceleration but definately holds it own on the track against the Viper. ....Ive seen first hand what a GTS looks like from the back at those speeds in a friends bpu+ Supra..
I hate these discussions because it alway degenerates into someone thinking its an attack on "insert car here"....Im an open minded person so even if car x is faster than a Vette doesnt mean I would love the Vette any less...Theres always someone faster...
Your just not seeing the whole picture. The only ones who really care what mags print and give them ultimate credability, are non-racers. Everyone on the vette boards give the viper credit for being a very fast car, some of us like them allot some less. But speaking for myself I get a kick out of raceing owners just like you, who know and understand so much better than I do and have a faster car than me. It's just so much less black and white than you realize. Ric
05-07-2003, 12:24 PM
#125
Burning Brakes
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (J-Rod)
J-Rod,
I still believe that YOU are the exception to the rule here, not the magazines.
I have no doubt that you are a faster driver than your friend is, but I think that the Motor Trend article is the first of many, testing the actual production SRT-10 Viper, that will be running high 11s at 121MPH+. Especially since several magazines (and real drivers) were able to get high 11s in the stock Gen II Vipers.
-Dean.
I still believe that YOU are the exception to the rule here, not the magazines.
I have no doubt that you are a faster driver than your friend is, but I think that the Motor Trend article is the first of many, testing the actual production SRT-10 Viper, that will be running high 11s at 121MPH+. Especially since several magazines (and real drivers) were able to get high 11s in the stock Gen II Vipers.
-Dean.
05-07-2003, 12:38 PM
#126
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Dean McManis)
Dean, The ONLY "stock"GTS I ever saw get an 11 sec run was mike brunton and he had "smooth tubes & K&N". I think it's grate the SRT10 ran 11.77 in the mag. From the spec's of the car it wasent a surprise. It's even more impressive if M/T was useing there normal timeing setup. With rollout at a real drag strip it would be even quicker time. We vette owners have a good deal, if we get to the finish line first on a viper were told it's driver, if viper gets there first....well it's a faster car.;) All in good fun. Ric
05-07-2003, 12:40 PM
#127
Le Mans Master
Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (moparmike)
Well my brother is an Ortho-Surgeon so let me set some breaks............ (oh-yeah just because someone in my family does it full time doesn't make me an expert and I would get arrested...........)
RBartick has been spouting off like some kind of viper guru for months because his brother has one.......if his brother is half the weenie RBartick
is, he doesn't even heat the tires before a run and doesn't have 10K miles on the car ()but 50 hours of equivalent auto-tap)............keep waxing on rbartick
"posted by a Z06 owner who likes vipers and doesn't like psyeudo viper opinions"
RBartick has been spouting off like some kind of viper guru for months because his brother has one.......if his brother is half the weenie RBartick
is, he doesn't even heat the tires before a run and doesn't have 10K miles on the car ()but 50 hours of equivalent auto-tap)............keep waxing on rbartick
"posted by a Z06 owner who likes vipers and doesn't like psyeudo viper opinions"
[Modified by rbartick, 1:24 PM 5/7/2003]
05-07-2003, 12:45 PM
#128
Burning Brakes
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Power Shifter)
Yeah Ric, but if you guys think about it, it's a compliment either way.
Either you are an excellent driver, or you've saved $30,000 and are nearly as fast. Or both.
It's hard to take that in a bad way. :cheers:
Either you are an excellent driver, or you've saved $30,000 and are nearly as fast. Or both.
It's hard to take that in a bad way. :cheers:
05-07-2003, 12:50 PM
#129
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Dean McManis)
Dean, You left out that I allso have the "better" american sports car. :yesnod: :smash: :smash: :grouphug: Ric
05-07-2003, 01:00 PM
#130
Burning Brakes
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Power Shifter)
Actually, you won't find an argument from me there, but then again I don't consider the Viper a sports car. :smash: :thumbs:
05-07-2003, 01:05 PM
#131
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Dean McManis)
Have you heard if the SRT's still sound like a LOUD UPS trucks? like the GEN II? :smash: :lol: :jester Ric
05-07-2003, 01:12 PM
#132
Burning Brakes
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Power Shifter)
I've seen only one SRT-10 Viper actually on the road so far, so I can't say how they sound. And I'll admit that the stock sound of the Gen II viper is odd, and actually too quiet.
I had a Corsa catback on my Corvette, and I loved the sound of it.
So when I got my Viper, the first thing that I did was to add high flow cats (for MUCH cooler side sills) and a Corsa exhaust. It transforms the sound of the car, which now has a nice burble when idling and cruising, and roars when you get on it.
After adding K&Ns and smooth tubes, these are the two best mods for a Viper. :cool:
-Dean.
I had a Corsa catback on my Corvette, and I loved the sound of it.
So when I got my Viper, the first thing that I did was to add high flow cats (for MUCH cooler side sills) and a Corsa exhaust. It transforms the sound of the car, which now has a nice burble when idling and cruising, and roars when you get on it.
After adding K&Ns and smooth tubes, these are the two best mods for a Viper. :cool:
-Dean.
05-07-2003, 01:35 PM
#133
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Dean McManis)
My intent wasn't to discredit MT's time on the Viper. They posted the best time I have seen on a Viper to date anywhere, by anyone. If you look at John's time, he clocked a 1.9 60' out of his car letting out on the clutch @ 2500 RPM, and chirped the tires going into second. If I let off the clutch in a Z06 @ 2500 the car would bog and run a cruddy time like MT posted. The Viper has the advantage that in a conservative launch like the magazine do, it will not suffer like the ET of a Z06 will that is a simple fact. I consider the Viper time a good time, and the Z06 time a cruddy time. I don't think the delta is there they are claiming. Again I lost by 2 carlengths or so, powershifting didn't get me 5 lengths...
As for believing what I believe vs what you know, unless you have first hand experience racing, then what do you know exactly?
As for the Viper, I went for a ride in John's right after we raced. The Viper still sounds like a UPS truck, but it does have plenty of torque. Its loud and noisy and got gobs of power.
[Modified by J-Rod, 1:37 PM 5/7/2003]
As for believing what I believe vs what you know, unless you have first hand experience racing, then what do you know exactly?
As for the Viper, I went for a ride in John's right after we raced. The Viper still sounds like a UPS truck, but it does have plenty of torque. Its loud and noisy and got gobs of power.
[Modified by J-Rod, 1:37 PM 5/7/2003]
05-07-2003, 03:11 PM
#134
Instructor
Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (J-Rod)
Look J-Rod and Power Shifter I dont want this to turn into a shouting match...When I said you believe what you...etc I meant that Ive seen the opposite in my experience street racing......Everyones experiences are different...Hence this discussion.
Just a quick thought J-Rod or PS...You guys powershift and obviously have above average skills in the drag racing dept. You ever thought that if either of you drove a Viper, without holding back, the way you do your Z's that you would most likely have a similar gap like the mags are consistantly getting? Cause its obvious you are shifting way better than these guys..Again the gap may be there but driver skill on your part erases most of it...
Mag drivers as well as the majority of owners dont use the techniques you guys do for obvious reasons...Its hard on a car. ...You are running guys that are shifting normally vs your honed techniques....You are pulling every last ounce out of that Z while thay are shifting conventionally......
Oh and PS thank for stating the obvious about racing not being black and white :)
Just a quick thought J-Rod or PS...You guys powershift and obviously have above average skills in the drag racing dept. You ever thought that if either of you drove a Viper, without holding back, the way you do your Z's that you would most likely have a similar gap like the mags are consistantly getting? Cause its obvious you are shifting way better than these guys..Again the gap may be there but driver skill on your part erases most of it...
Mag drivers as well as the majority of owners dont use the techniques you guys do for obvious reasons...Its hard on a car. ...You are running guys that are shifting normally vs your honed techniques....You are pulling every last ounce out of that Z while thay are shifting conventionally......
Oh and PS thank for stating the obvious about racing not being black and white :)
05-07-2003, 05:03 PM
#135
Safety Car
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (SnakeBitten)
This discussion is way overdone.The bottom line is this-The SRT is
FASTER THAN A Z06.IT ALSO COST MORE! And the Vipers do sound like
UPS trucks!(no disrespect Frank)
bhamvett
91 ZR1#661
FASTER THAN A Z06.IT ALSO COST MORE! And the Vipers do sound like
UPS trucks!(no disrespect Frank)
bhamvett
91 ZR1#661
05-07-2003, 05:04 PM
#136
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (SnakeBitten)
Your very wellcome snakbitten. It's heartwarming to know you see the obvious. I knew you were kidding when you said disscusion done, it was obvious- sorta, black and white. :smash: ;) :blueangel: Ric
05-07-2003, 08:39 PM
#137
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Power Shifter)
Just a little additional comment. The person test driving these cars in the Motor Trend article was Justin Bell. He knows how to drive. :thumbs:
05-08-2003, 12:17 AM
#138
Melting Slicks
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (JACSZ06)
Just a little additional comment. The person test driving these cars in the Motor Trend article was Justin Bell. He knows how to drive. :thumbs:
05-08-2003, 12:46 AM
#139
Burning Brakes
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Re: 2003 Motor Trend High-Speed Shootout (Power Shifter)
He knows enough drag racing to get a good time out of the Viper. :cool:
Maybe he just needs a few lessons from you guys to get the best out of the Z06. :D ;)
Maybe he just needs a few lessons from you guys to get the best out of the Z06. :D ;)
