[Z06] 911 turbo!!!!!!
12-02-2003, 07:24 PM
#61
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (Chicago ZO6)
I usually don't get involved in these types of debates. It's typically much more fun just to read them. But, having driven my share of Porsches, having owned my Z06, and having come up against a number of Porsches, I think that the folks like Ryan make a lot of very, very good points. But, in a nut shell, Chicago Z06 just summed up my feelings on this subject. So, to his post, I simply say "Ditto." :) Now, in the immortal words of Rodney King: "C-c-c-can't w-w-we all j-j-j-just get along? Please?"
12-02-2003, 07:45 PM
#62
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (mikeo)
I have road raced against a couple of 911 TT's at Sebring. Here's my take on the Z06 vs. 911 TT argument: The 911 is awesome in the corners albeit a little better than the Z06.... not much though. In the straights there's no contest that the Z06 is faster... not much though. The two cars are - in performance - closely matched... very close. Anything else is about taste and that will differ from person to person. For me the 911 is a beautiful car inside and out but for me $120,000.00 is a little stretch that I would not consider unless I had so much money that I it just wouldn't matter. By the way have you seen the engine compartment on the 911? It doesn't even have a dip stick. Can you say drop the whole engine to do ANYTHING on that car? Like I said, beautiful car if I had the cash to blow. :thumbs:
12-02-2003, 08:33 PM
#63
Instructor
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (JACSZ06)
I have to agree with C6-XTSY, I also own a 96 twin turbo porsche 600 HP, I own for a few years now, and I just pick up a 2002 ZO6, I always owned covettes, had a couple of pro street vettes that ran 9.60's at 145 mph and that was 15 years ago and that is why I pick up this ZO6, I always liked covettes, but I have to tell you guys, the porsche is a very smooth car, very reliable different type of car, but I also like the ZO6, porsche feels like driving an exotic car and when those turbos kick in look out, very fast but I do own the both cars, and I will keep them for now :auto: :steering: :cheers:
12-02-2003, 08:37 PM
#64
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (brobopop)
My history with fast cars includes three P-cars. Every one provided an awesome performance driving experience. They are most excellent. However, the ones I owned and drove had a dark side... no mechanical reliability. Driving one hard resulted in an immediate tow trip to the nearest authorized dealer (sometimes hundreds of miles away) for major repairs like clutch, transaxle, computer-box replacement, even a couple of "ate the valve"'s. The summary was 6-weeks in shop and minimum of $500 in repairs for every 500 miles driven.
My Z06 is a "whole nuther ballgame." The car provides a totally awesome performance driving experience. My has been running since June of 2001 (That is well over two years) with only routine oil & filter changes.
So far, I have come out on top against every P-car that egged me into a run. I am sure there are plenty of P-cars that can take me (like the RT and the 996). I just haven't seen any of them yet.
dd
My Z06 is a "whole nuther ballgame." The car provides a totally awesome performance driving experience. My has been running since June of 2001 (That is well over two years) with only routine oil & filter changes.
So far, I have come out on top against every P-car that egged me into a run. I am sure there are plenty of P-cars that can take me (like the RT and the 996). I just haven't seen any of them yet.
dd
12-02-2003, 08:44 PM
#65
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (Ryan Bell)
While the Z06 is an awesome ride (and I LOVE driving it), it's simply not in the same league as the Turbo NO MATTER WHAT is runs. Period. It's not as nice of a car. It's just not.
I'm just perplexed at how you so easily justify the extra $70k over the Z06, for what really amounts to intangible things such as "feel" and sound, when the performance numbers are nearly identical. I mean that's a lot of dough for feel. Unless the 911 Turbo gave me a blow job everytime I got in it, that $70k feels a lot better in my wallet.
But, to each his own. :)
12-02-2003, 08:49 PM
#66
Melting Slicks
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (stingray454)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :iagree:
Touche' :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag
Touche' :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag :flag
12-02-2003, 08:56 PM
#67
Team Owner
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (stingray454)
While the Z06 is an awesome ride (and I LOVE driving it), it's simply not in the same league as the Turbo NO MATTER WHAT is runs. Period. It's not as nice of a car. It's just not.
OK, OK, calm down - don't blow a gasket. It's very clear you have a hardon for the 911 Turbo. So all I can say is, keep saving so you can get one.
I'm just perplexed at how you so easily justify the extra $70k over the Z06, for what really amounts to intangible things such as "feel" and sound, when the performance numbers are nearly identical. I mean that's a lot of dough for feel. Unless the 911 Turbo gave me a blow job everytime I got in it, that $70k feels a lot better in my wallet.
But, to each his own. :)
OK, OK, calm down - don't blow a gasket. It's very clear you have a hardon for the 911 Turbo. So all I can say is, keep saving so you can get one.
I'm just perplexed at how you so easily justify the extra $70k over the Z06, for what really amounts to intangible things such as "feel" and sound, when the performance numbers are nearly identical. I mean that's a lot of dough for feel. Unless the 911 Turbo gave me a blow job everytime I got in it, that $70k feels a lot better in my wallet.
But, to each his own. :)
I'm far from "having a hardon" for it, but I think it's an awesome machine.
Intangibles (i.e. HOW it turns the numbers it turns) are really desirable and important to me if I can afford them.
Right now, I'm driving the best car I can afford, and I love it. The Z06 rocks!! I think it's the performance bargain of the last twenty years. What other car can keep up with cars that are twice as much money?? But, I'd kill to own a 911 Turbo. :)
12-02-2003, 08:59 PM
#68
Instructor
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (racer959)
Hi guys,
I recently sold my 2001 twin turbo (owned 2 years), and bought a 2004 Z06. I also had a 1997 Viper GTS (owned 3 years).
The Porsche is a completely different animal than the Corvette. As someone stated earlier, the quality difference between the two is no contest. The fit, finish, and materials is far beyond the Chevy; there is no one selling leather shift boots (to replace vinyl) for Porsches :) In terms of quality, the Viper is to the Corvette as the Corvette is to the Porsche.
I could have bought a GT2, but I didn't. I bought a Z because it was EASILY the best car for the money. The Viper was fun, but was a hassle to drive, even for a weekend car like mine.
Another thing to consider is the poor resale values. A used 996 Turbo can be bought in the high 80's if you look hard enough (believe me, I know). Many of these cars were bought at sticker +. I lost $45K+ in the Viper and Porsche put together (yes, I know, I did drive and enjoy the cars, etc.) I am confident that the Corvette will hold its value far better.
So far, I LOVE this car! :D
Andy
I recently sold my 2001 twin turbo (owned 2 years), and bought a 2004 Z06. I also had a 1997 Viper GTS (owned 3 years).
The Porsche is a completely different animal than the Corvette. As someone stated earlier, the quality difference between the two is no contest. The fit, finish, and materials is far beyond the Chevy; there is no one selling leather shift boots (to replace vinyl) for Porsches :) In terms of quality, the Viper is to the Corvette as the Corvette is to the Porsche.
I could have bought a GT2, but I didn't. I bought a Z because it was EASILY the best car for the money. The Viper was fun, but was a hassle to drive, even for a weekend car like mine.
Another thing to consider is the poor resale values. A used 996 Turbo can be bought in the high 80's if you look hard enough (believe me, I know). Many of these cars were bought at sticker +. I lost $45K+ in the Viper and Porsche put together (yes, I know, I did drive and enjoy the cars, etc.) I am confident that the Corvette will hold its value far better.
So far, I LOVE this car! :D
Andy
12-02-2003, 10:07 PM
#69
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St. Jude Donor '10
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (NoMercy)
At this altitude I want turbos. :cheers:
12-03-2003, 12:08 AM
#71
Le Mans Master
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (SurfnSun)
At this altitude I want turbos. :cheers:
Bill, have you ever had a turbo car? Youre gonna want turbos on ALL your cars when you get it :D Press the gas and you get an instant, quiet blast of speed.....addictive.
Bill, have you ever had a turbo car? Youre gonna want turbos on ALL your cars when you get it :D Press the gas and you get an instant, quiet blast of speed.....addictive.
12-03-2003, 02:19 AM
#73
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (VetterMan)
Like I said before I will say it again, porsche is overrated!!!
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
12-03-2003, 03:57 AM
#74
Team Owner
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (zak)
Like I said before I will say it again, porsche is overrated!!!
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
Yeah, Porsche sucks. :rolleyes:
12-03-2003, 10:22 AM
#75
Le Mans Master
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (zak)
Like I said before I will say it again, porsche is overrated!!!
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
12-03-2003, 11:14 AM
#76
Le Mans Master
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (NoMercy)
I think when it comes to comparisons like this it boils down to this:
The much more $$$ car (like Porcshe Turbo vs. Z06) will always have much better materials and much better craftsmanship (fit & finish). Why do you think it costs so much?
It’s really simple if you think about it – they can afford to put more effort into it and it quality would be s h i t who would buy it?
Now as far as performance, in this case Z06 takes the cake I think. ;)
Especially so when you consider $$$. See this is where the REAL reason for these countless debates comes in :D :
Different people are after different things in a car.
Some only (or mostly) care about performance – how can you justify extra $70 grand for about same performance then?
Some want both performance and quality - they may look at extra premium more “understanding”
Some want looks (subjective), some want to get looks, some care about prestige.
How add to the mix that some people just canÂ’t afford $100+ car and some have enough $$$ that price is not really a big issue.
You see that’s why they make different cars – because people have different needs/wants. :)
Each one is good for a particular category. :cool:
Having said that, for me, personally, Porsche doesn’t do it in terms of looks :U – no offence anybody.
Also I guess IÂ’m not rich enough to care so much about quality, prestige, etc to plunk down extra $70 grand just for that, but thatÂ’s just me :D
[Modified by EuG, 11:19 AM 12/3/2003]
The much more $$$ car (like Porcshe Turbo vs. Z06) will always have much better materials and much better craftsmanship (fit & finish). Why do you think it costs so much?
It’s really simple if you think about it – they can afford to put more effort into it and it quality would be s h i t who would buy it?
Now as far as performance, in this case Z06 takes the cake I think. ;)
Especially so when you consider $$$. See this is where the REAL reason for these countless debates comes in :D :
Different people are after different things in a car.
Some only (or mostly) care about performance – how can you justify extra $70 grand for about same performance then?
Some want both performance and quality - they may look at extra premium more “understanding”
Some want looks (subjective), some want to get looks, some care about prestige.
How add to the mix that some people just canÂ’t afford $100+ car and some have enough $$$ that price is not really a big issue.
You see that’s why they make different cars – because people have different needs/wants. :)
Each one is good for a particular category. :cool:
Having said that, for me, personally, Porsche doesn’t do it in terms of looks :U – no offence anybody.
Also I guess IÂ’m not rich enough to care so much about quality, prestige, etc to plunk down extra $70 grand just for that, but thatÂ’s just me :D
[Modified by EuG, 11:19 AM 12/3/2003]
12-03-2003, 05:16 PM
#77
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (Ryan Bell)
Intresting debate will see how close the C6 can come to a 911 in Fit and Finish....
The 911 interior is by no means great it has many cheap plastics.......
The 911 interior is by no means great it has many cheap plastics.......
12-03-2003, 06:28 PM
#78
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Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (stingray454)
JMHO---- I bought my wife a white 03 coupe auto, two tops , loaded, $42000
I bought myself a blk/blk 03 Z06 loaded ---------------------$45900
total $87900
Thats 755 hp ! 8 exhaust pipes, together they sound better than one Porsche.
Plus $120K for a Porsche , $87900 for 2 Corvettes, I have $32100 left over to put toward a 3rd Corvette. HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!
I bought myself a blk/blk 03 Z06 loaded ---------------------$45900
total $87900
Thats 755 hp ! 8 exhaust pipes, together they sound better than one Porsche.
Plus $120K for a Porsche , $87900 for 2 Corvettes, I have $32100 left over to put toward a 3rd Corvette. HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!
Totally disagree. I think the Porsche looks better by a long shot.
Styling is subjective - some people like chocolate, some like vanilla. Is one better than the other? Depends on who wants it. And of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My opinion on the 911 Turbo is its a great looking car. It does look a little bit like a modern evolution of the Super Beetle (the 911's always had a bit of Beetle in them, IMO), but a cool looking car nonetheless. But I like the look of the Z06 better. The Z06 looks like a badass; the 911 turbo has more of a preppy jock look. It's just not me.
The brakes alone are incredible.
Yeah, they are. So are the Z06's brakes.
The engine is magnificant.
Yes it is. So is the LS6.
The looks are classic and awesome.
Same can be said about the Z06, but again, subjective.
The balance is completely in a different galaxy (it's really that different).
Hmmm, last I checked the Z06 had a pretty even weight balance, almost 50/50 front/rear. The 911 Turbo is also pretty evenly balanced, although I think it is a little bit rear weight biased, which, without its AWD system, can be a real handful at the limit. Any RWD 911 owner can vouch for that.
The AWD adds SO much to the driving experience.
I'm sure it does. But I kindda like the ability to hang the tail out on the Z06 whenever I want.
The engine sounds awesome.
Sound of course is subjective. This is one area that I think the Z06 wins hands down. I think a 911 Turbo sounds like a farm tractor. I just hate the sound of horizontally opposed engines - they sound too rattly, too clinky, too flat.
As a red blooded American, I just melt when I hear the sound of a healthy V-8, and the Z06 just sounds incredible to me. In stock form the Z06 is close to perfect sounding. With headers, x-pipe, and Borla Stingers, it IS perfect to me. I could listen to the V-8 music all day.
By contract, the sound of boxer engine makes me nauseous :U
The feel of the acceleration is unreal (it's different than most cars that turn those times, simply because of HOW it delivers the power). The structural engineering is just unreal.
Uh, you did say you own a Z06, didn't you? Have you ever gone full throttle to redline with the thing before? :confused: :skep:
It's a 120k car for a reason. A very justified reason. :yesnod:
Sounds like you bought into Porsche's advertising campaign "there is no substitute". :rolleyes:
They justify their high price tags through marketing and building a brand image, not through building superior cars. They're very good at building that brand image though. You're not the only one they got convinced.
Styling is subjective - some people like chocolate, some like vanilla. Is one better than the other? Depends on who wants it. And of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My opinion on the 911 Turbo is its a great looking car. It does look a little bit like a modern evolution of the Super Beetle (the 911's always had a bit of Beetle in them, IMO), but a cool looking car nonetheless. But I like the look of the Z06 better. The Z06 looks like a badass; the 911 turbo has more of a preppy jock look. It's just not me.
The brakes alone are incredible.
Yeah, they are. So are the Z06's brakes.
The engine is magnificant.
Yes it is. So is the LS6.
The looks are classic and awesome.
Same can be said about the Z06, but again, subjective.
The balance is completely in a different galaxy (it's really that different).
Hmmm, last I checked the Z06 had a pretty even weight balance, almost 50/50 front/rear. The 911 Turbo is also pretty evenly balanced, although I think it is a little bit rear weight biased, which, without its AWD system, can be a real handful at the limit. Any RWD 911 owner can vouch for that.
The AWD adds SO much to the driving experience.
I'm sure it does. But I kindda like the ability to hang the tail out on the Z06 whenever I want.
The engine sounds awesome.
Sound of course is subjective. This is one area that I think the Z06 wins hands down. I think a 911 Turbo sounds like a farm tractor. I just hate the sound of horizontally opposed engines - they sound too rattly, too clinky, too flat.
As a red blooded American, I just melt when I hear the sound of a healthy V-8, and the Z06 just sounds incredible to me. In stock form the Z06 is close to perfect sounding. With headers, x-pipe, and Borla Stingers, it IS perfect to me. I could listen to the V-8 music all day.
By contract, the sound of boxer engine makes me nauseous :U
The feel of the acceleration is unreal (it's different than most cars that turn those times, simply because of HOW it delivers the power). The structural engineering is just unreal.
Uh, you did say you own a Z06, didn't you? Have you ever gone full throttle to redline with the thing before? :confused: :skep:
It's a 120k car for a reason. A very justified reason. :yesnod:
Sounds like you bought into Porsche's advertising campaign "there is no substitute". :rolleyes:
They justify their high price tags through marketing and building a brand image, not through building superior cars. They're very good at building that brand image though. You're not the only one they got convinced.
12-03-2003, 06:48 PM
#79
Race Director
Re: 911 turbo!!!!!! (Ryan Bell)
Like I said before I will say it again, porsche is overrated!!!
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
Ok. :rolleyes:
Yeah, Porsche sucks. :rolleyes:
That porsche cars look like a bug beetle. :lolg:
Corvette Z06 The American Icon :flag
Ok. :rolleyes:
Yeah, Porsche sucks. :rolleyes:
12-03-2003, 07:29 PM
#80
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Turbo vs. Z06 - The Long and Short of it!
Having logged a fair amount of seat time behind the wheel of both cars, I can summarize the comparative driving experiences thus:
The 996 turbo is a canyon carving scalpel. Driven at eight tenths, the Turbo is an absolute delight - extremely nimble with precise steering and a suspension that seamlessly glides over bumps. The Z06 exhibits more vertical motion over uneven pavement but is every bit as tractable. Steering effort is a tad high for relaxed cornering, which in combination with the wider track and longer wheelbase projects a false sensation of greater weight. This is more than compensated by its excellent turn-in poise and overall balance.
Turn up the driving intensity a notch or two, and the contrast between the two becomes evident. Approaching the Turbo's high cornering limits, understeer rears its ugly head. The car starts to push palpably, and lacks the willingness to rotate about its yaw axis. PSM (Porsche speak for stability management or Active Handling) helps a little, but the inherent understeer cannot be dialed out (the 911 GT3 doesn't have this problem although it is a little too tail happy). If nothing, this character of the Turbo is a safe trait that allows amateur pilots to push the car to its limits, but also ultimately hinders its absolute cornering ability. Drive the Z06 to its limits, and it exhibits almost no understeer even in the slow corners. Judicious throttle application can be used to coax the rear to veer around while oversteer is easily corrected with a little opposite lock steering input. This is precisely why the Z06 excels on a road course when driven at its limit.
In conclusion, if I were carving the corners of Mullholland drive (or Yerba Buena if you prefer long sweepers) on a lovely Saturday morning, I'd take the Turbo simply because its so rewarding at eight tenths, demands so little and will tolerate the most lead-footed or ham-fisted inputs. If I wanted to break a sweat and get the adrenaline pumping beyond the typical weekend excursion, I'll strap on the Z06.
[Modified by raj, 6:35 PM 12/3/2003]
The 996 turbo is a canyon carving scalpel. Driven at eight tenths, the Turbo is an absolute delight - extremely nimble with precise steering and a suspension that seamlessly glides over bumps. The Z06 exhibits more vertical motion over uneven pavement but is every bit as tractable. Steering effort is a tad high for relaxed cornering, which in combination with the wider track and longer wheelbase projects a false sensation of greater weight. This is more than compensated by its excellent turn-in poise and overall balance.
Turn up the driving intensity a notch or two, and the contrast between the two becomes evident. Approaching the Turbo's high cornering limits, understeer rears its ugly head. The car starts to push palpably, and lacks the willingness to rotate about its yaw axis. PSM (Porsche speak for stability management or Active Handling) helps a little, but the inherent understeer cannot be dialed out (the 911 GT3 doesn't have this problem although it is a little too tail happy). If nothing, this character of the Turbo is a safe trait that allows amateur pilots to push the car to its limits, but also ultimately hinders its absolute cornering ability. Drive the Z06 to its limits, and it exhibits almost no understeer even in the slow corners. Judicious throttle application can be used to coax the rear to veer around while oversteer is easily corrected with a little opposite lock steering input. This is precisely why the Z06 excels on a road course when driven at its limit.
In conclusion, if I were carving the corners of Mullholland drive (or Yerba Buena if you prefer long sweepers) on a lovely Saturday morning, I'd take the Turbo simply because its so rewarding at eight tenths, demands so little and will tolerate the most lead-footed or ham-fisted inputs. If I wanted to break a sweat and get the adrenaline pumping beyond the typical weekend excursion, I'll strap on the Z06.
[Modified by raj, 6:35 PM 12/3/2003]