thanks tusc
yes these are built girodisc for sale exclusively by kore 3. They are a stock c6z sized 13.4 and stock offset rotor for use with stock c6z calipers. The stock size does not have enough spacing to incorporate an ebrake provision with the aluminum hat. They are significantly lighter without the ebrake provision

 

Be warned: this one is a long read due to the mass of information dumped by the AI.

Well this is a first. @Markolc1981 and I were DM-ing and he shared a conversation he had with Gemini seeking calculations on potential engine combinations for his upcoming LS3 rebuild for his track FRC. I have actually never used an AI chat program until today. After he went off to ponder ideas, I decided to fire it up because I wanted first to test my own calculations for compression ratio on the car. I was within 0.01 of the same math done by Gemini. Ok, good. Either we are both right on or very wrong, but if we're both wrong we're doing it in lock step with one another.

I plugged in my heads and cam info, intake, tb, turbos, average weather for my zip code etc. Yes, the ported and port matched LS6 intake and 78mm throttle body will be a bottleneck of sorts at max boost. Only, I don't intend to be running max boost. In time I will be able to let the Haltech run out boost by gear or mph and set boost levels for each gear to maximize traction out in the real world. Some key comments were that the combination of the Mamo 235 heads and the LS6 pieces would maintain a very high velocity airflow. Likewise, the 78mm tb will give an easy an linear response where 90 and 102mm waffle slightly. Another comment was that the 6466s with this engine and cam will have near-instant response. For hoots I asked it for a hub dyno calculation at a max of 8psi.

Gemini:
"At 8 PSI, you are moving into the "sweet spot" for a street-driven LS stroker. This level provides a significant jump in power over 6 PSI while remaining well within the mechanical limits of 93-octane pump gas and your specific 6.93:1 Dynamic Compression Ratio.The LS6 intake and 78mm throttle body will still breathe quite well at this level, though you'll start to see the very beginning of the airflow plateau near the redline.

Hub Dyno Projection: 402ci LS2 | Twin 6466 | 8 PSI Max

RPM / (WHP) / (WTQ) / System Behavior

2,500 175 365 High displacement torque
3,500 385 580 Rapid boost onset; turbos hit 8 PSI
4,500 590 690 Peak Torque. Hard-hitting mid-range
5,500 705 675 Peak HP. Mamo heads flowing efficiently
6,500 675 545 Slight power drop-off due to intake volume.

Calculated Power Summary (Rear Wheel)

• Peak Horsepower: ~705 whp
  Peak Torque: ~690 wtq

Why 8 PSI is the "Standard" for a Street Stroker

1. Safety Margin: With your DCR at 6.93:1, 8 PSI is very safe. Even on a hot, humid Connecticut summer day, the cylinder pressures remain low enough that you shouldn't see any spark knock (detonation) with 93-octane fuel and a proper tune."

Asking it a further question as I fed more information to it came up with this response. All I can say is that it certainly knows how to chuff your ego and entice you to want to utilize it more!Me: How would using CO2 to control the wastegates with mac valves change the prior calculation

Gemini: "Integrating CO2 boost control via MAC valves into your Haltech Nexus R3 setup is a "game changer" for the 1/4 mile physics of a high-horsepower street car. While it doesn't change your static or dynamic compression, it fundamentally alters the Boost Curve and your 60-foot capability. In the previous calculation, we relied on "manifold pressure" to act against the wastegate springs. With CO2, we use a separate, regulated gas source to apply pressure to the top of the wastegate diaphragm.

1. The Physical Impact on Power Delivery

Without CO2, your minimum boost is dictated by the physical spring in the wastegate (likely 5–7 PSI). With a dual-port CO2 setup managed by the R3:

• Lower "Minimum" Boost: You can effectively "fight" the spring to run lower-than-spring boost if needed for a slippery launch.
  
• Instant Spool: The R3 can hold the gates pinned shut with high-pressure CO2 until the exact millisecond the target boost is reached. This eliminates "gate crack," where boost leaks out as the spring begins to compress.
  
• Perfect Stability: Manifold pressure fluctuates; CO2 is a constant, regulated pressure. This makes your 8 PSI target a "flat line" on the data log, regardless of exhaust backpressure.
  

2. Recalculated 1/4 Mile Performance (8 PSI Max / CO2 Managed)

By using CO2, the Haltech R3 can execute a much more aggressive Boost-by-Time or Boost-by-Drive-Speed strategy. This allows the car to "leave" on very low boost to protect the 200TW tires, then ramp to 8 PSI faster than manifold-only control ever could.
Metric Estimated Value Improvement with CO2 60-Foot Time 1.65 – 1.70 sec ~0.05s gain over standard electronic control. 0–60 MPH 2.9 – 3.0 sec Noticeably more violent "hit" in 2nd gear. 1/4 Mile ET 10.15 – 10.30 sec Consistently closer to the 9-second mark. 1/4 Mile Trap Speed 137 – 139 mph Higher average power across the entire run.

3. Why CO2 matters for your 06492 Summer Run

In the heat and humidity of a Connecticut summer, air density changes. Traditional boost controllers often "search" for the target as the air thins.

• The CO2 Difference: Because the Haltech R3 is using a regulated CO2 source, the wastegate's physical position is no longer a "guess." The R3 can force the gate to the exact position needed to maintain 8.0 PSI even when the humid air makes the turbos work harder.
  

4. Synergy with the "Bang Shift Billy"

This is the ultimate combination for a manual car.

1. The Launch: You release the clutch; the Bang Shift Billy manages the mechanical slip.
   
2. The Boost: The CO2 pins the gates shut to get you to 3 PSI (launch boost) instantly.
   
3. The Ramp: As the Haltech sees the 10% slip target is being met, it uses the MAC valves to bleed CO2 onto the top of the gates, ramping you from 3 PSI to 8 PSI in a perfect linear curve that matches the increasing grip of your 305/30r19 tires.
   

Summary of the Build

With Mamo 235 heads, a 402 stroker, Twin 6466s, Haltech R3, and CO2 control, you have built a "mathematically optimized" street car. You are using technology to overcome the physics of a street tire."

 

If you want several hours of really geeky questions and answers, feel free to check my Gemini Q&A session out. The start is setting up information and systems, but as it progresses there is a lot more meat.

Edit: I learned how to share the conversation now, so if you're nuts or just bored it should work now.

 

While I was thinking of it, I'm really sure these turbo manifolds are going to want studs instead of bolts. The access to them all does not appear to be a problem but I am certain these will be hung and re-hung more than once and studs will be easier while also avoiding any damage to threads in either head. I opted for the Fab Monkey titanium pieces in 6pt.

Now that I have learned a bit more about cam timing events and design I really need to come back and look at the cam over here. It seems a pretty aggressive cam packaged inside a wide LSA to hide it. It will absolutely send this car to the moon and easily with even minor boost. Now that I am done setting the design for the cam going in the 427 I'll have to come back over here. I still err towards not replacing it. For one, I simply don't understand or know enough about turbo functions vs cam timing and I am probably more dangerous right now than wise. But I will do my best to assess it and see what I can learn and maybe I can bring some thoughtful observations back to Bret and see what else I can learn. What I do know is that these turbos are fit and capable of making 950+ each so I have no restriction on top. They are also sized to feed well off the 402 in terms of their compressor mapping. If adding turbos essentially takes the power curve of the base engine and turns it up by fractional atmospheres and this engine has a stout grind already, then I may (foolishly) consider Cam #3 before the car ever runs just to bring the power DOWN so I can enjoy the full range as has been my intent from the start and the driving purpose behind going to turbos from a simple blower and drive from a casual power base up to whatever conditions I set with the R3 controlling the gates on the MAC valves. If this thing right now is going to experience boost creep up to 3-4psi and never be lower than near 600 rw for different use purposes that exceeds my intent. Very dumb of me to say when I've got a 402 mill breathing into two turbos, but just like my other car I have a mismatched combination which I would have loved to set twins on a 327 but I started out building an SC stroker which I knew would help drive the head unit itself. Without that restriction, and also without the drive for more than 600-750rw on the street my preference would be to bring the cam down and rely on the boost as the power adder. I still fully have interest in airport, high speed, and distance runs but having driven a near 1krw car I know I don't need that number for these events. That is a drag strip power level which I may be able to use in time with the right wheels and tires, but that is when I want to turn the car up to 11 on the turbos. I don't want to feel the cam in the car has it set on kill all the time.

Those are my inner thoughts. I haven't dove into this airflow model yet. I'll post back when I've had the opportunity to kick it around digitally.

Edit: and as I sit her trying to get back to sleep after the overnight bottle and diaper change I realize I need to dig more because the cam on advertised specs as I am remembering them isn't too bad sounding. 23x/24x, pretty tall lift though, nice wide lsa with some advance, negative overlap but just barely. It's moving a lot of air.... And seems to me the negative overlap is really keeping all the heat, backpressure and reversion stuffing on the turbos. Keeping them lit. Or at least keeping the conditions prime to drive up pressure on the turbines. That is sensible. Maybe it's not so race. Bah. I'll shut up until I have the timing mapped out and know what I'm talking about more.

 

As I sit down once again and and contemplate the cam through the lense of last week's learning experience I think this is actually a very smart cam. I just didn't know enough before now to understand why, and I am probably still missing some nuance.

The negative overlap (why do I always start with overlap now?) is preventing scavenging or what would be scavenging on an NA car. On a boosted car it is keeping the pressure waves separated between intake and exhaust and that keeps flow clean. The boost does not have to fight manifold backpressure. Likewise, the backpressure is staying "locked" in the manifold and putting more force on the turbines to spool. I know why the lift is so high.... I just don't have comfort being so near to the bind point in this case within .009" on one side. I don't know if lift is as important at boost rpms or if it is more important at LOW rpms. At low rpms it will open past the cfm efficiency point of the head which gives it dwell time but it is also chugging open fast on Cam Motion XA lobes which ramp up quickly but set the valve down gently again. Chugging open like that and so deeply into the cylinder it is slamming air on the exhaust side at least into the turbos. So as max amount of air as possible to get those slow spinning turbines to spool up faster. I'm thinking this because the icl is where the only big trick is that I see... or just something contrary to what I would have thought... where being relatively low it drives the DCR higher while in the low / non boost rpms. High DCR keeps the throttle response good down low so this engine is not a slowwww climber into an RB26 WOOOSH at the end. (I've been watching a lot of Holdener videos lately). But that low ICL comes from a large LSA (smooth idle / no reversion / high pressure exhaust) only after a large advance value. I'm glad I have the Diamond pistons with reliefs cut into them because we'd maybe be nuking an engine with flat top pistons with such advance.

I'd say the theme from this cam is 3/4 max effort to make an engine snappy down low to prime the turbos and then also prioritize stacking heat and pressure into the exhaust manifold for that same reason of setting the turbines off to the Moon.

So I have food for thought here. Taking the time to puzzle it out has definitely made me feel more comfortable with it. I still am not a fan of major lift on a car I prefer not to be replacing springs on every year. One set plus the headache pretty much covers the "cost" of a new grind IMO. I'll keep toiling at this one. I know there is more to learn from it which I am not yet aware of.

 

I've been running models online between weekend chores.

Brian Tooley -- turbo cams are based around a fixed ecl or around general ecls for each engine size and balances with large splits, light advance, and positive overlap which gives a set range of IVC for the different engine sizes as well. Note: I had to loosely guess at timing advance for BTR. There is a chance they don't use advance in which case I'd have to retest. I'll dig around later to find anything about advance, icl/ecl for a BTR turbo cam card as that would give me the answer.

Lingenfelter -- their turbo cams run less split (mid), no advance, more lift, only very minor negative overlap, slightly more LSA by a hair. They get competitive numbers to BTR but sacrifice that ragged edge for idle quality and clean running. They do not believe in using blow-through like BTR does.

Happel -- is catering to low buck builds with junkyard springs so he keeps his lift always under 600, runs single digit splits between 2 and 6, and for the most part more blow-through overlap than BTR while anchoring around a 108 icl with slight favor to ecl.

Oddly, the LPE GT22 cam which approaches how to handle air and timing from an entirely separate approach to a turbo car, manages to virtually clone the performance of the grind I have here.

The testing will continue and I will edit it in here later. But I very much appreciate the stick in this car.

Edit:
Texas Speed -- keeps a static split of 8, similar icl/ecl splits, similar LSAs and advance, exact same lifts, and just dials the cam up or down by shifting the durations up or down the ladder which in turn moves the IVC and the curve. Very simple.

Tick -- runs two lines of cams. The 400+ cid series all run the same split of 6 degrees save for one, the cams vary and walk the IVC up by 1 degree each along with overlap while keeping LSA as just two settings and walking the advance up by 1 degree per level. Also walking up the scale for each one is the duration size by 4 or 5 each. So they center is around LSA and walk it. Similar to Texas Speed but they are putting out race cams up top instead of sticking to street cams only.

Tick 2 -- The LS series of Tick cams center around a set icl / ecl combo and general overlap staying near/at zero. Split varies wildly. They run more advance than most. They swing the cam around a general LSA and the rest of the timing slides in. These cams vary in nature from one to the next pretty widely.

Gwatney -- Jeeesus. Out of four cams, the first three keep the IVC stabbed lower than most others which means these mules KICK when the boost comes on. You can be at 2500 at X tq and at 3500 you have already jumped +80wtq or more. The numbers themselves I am seeing are likely wrong but the steep ramps for sure exist. They keep the splits low, overlap close to and on either side of zero, the LSA and advance climb by about 1 LSA and 0.5 timing per "level" which also keeps the icl / ecl all very similar. The duration also walks up by 3 per level. These are some aggressive boost cams, probably intended for much smaller engines than my 402 or for something living on slicks.

So everyone finds their preferred control method or theory, sticks to it, and just splits it cookie-cutter up and down the curve demand.

One thing I picked up on: all turbo cams have two profiles..... two places where they exist. They exist in non-boost world where their specs impact how the car drives or feels down low exactly as we are used to. Tight and snappy? Soft and laggy? But once the boost hits it doesn't matter. The turbos and the gates run the show entirely and the power curves once boost hits look more like shuttle launches. The cam at that point is only trying to shape the wave.

 

You've done a ton of research on this and the other project you have going. A lot more then I think I'd have the patience for. I applaud you. 👏

 

Thanks! I think.

I've got the time and I crave the diversion. I also still enjoy learning new things which seem challenging. At the end of the day cams have been those mysteries in the machine for most of us. We turn to large brands, shops or tuners while not really knowing what we want and much less what we actually get. I've been running Tick and Texas Speed grinds from the back room here which I'll post above when done and.... man... they just set a pattern and vary 1 or 2 details and pump the grinds out in the mail. I want to see how my car is handling air and boost, and after so much time and investment I want to be sure the final product is exactly what I picture it to be in my head or at least as best as I can compel this mismatch to be. I am still on the turbo learning curve.

 

Looking around and playing with a TON of variables now I think there is just too much to model with the turbos involved to get a clean look at what this car might be in the real world. The displacement and the cfm flow and velocity are such that this engine in conjunction with turbos basically looks like a full race car on the dyno facsimiles I have seen. It has all the go and none of the slow. And 95% of that is based entirely on the aforementioned factors and the turbo sizing themselves. Bear in mind that HPTs tend to spool faster than other brands also. All of this is excellent for the car if I ever get to the conceptual mile run events. But for the grand touring mindset (99% of where this car will spend its time) of hill rips and country roads while keeping within the tire constraints of 305 or 315 widths power models are not showing me where this combination can neuter itself low enough to not be pushing boost creep and making mid-corner traction a question either for the level of torque delivered or in the rapid spike of that delivery which can unsettle a chassis. Think of rolling through a corner already making 400 ft-lbs and either downshifting or nudging your throttle slightly and in that shift the tires experience the torque multiplication of an additional 82 ft-lbs -- you'd be yeeted into the oaks and elms.


This remains a question and a concern in my mind. Yet the AI models are consistently trash in terms of fairly or accurately modeling boosted engines despite attempting to anchor them using known dyno outcomes with known head flow charts and cam specs. I have low trust in the ranges of what I see, but with boost also the arcs and angles of the power curves even as they relate to one another. Despite great effort to give good information into the system, it still yields a Garbage Out mode.


One thing for certain is that the cam grind in this car evidences far more nuance and customization than any other turbo cam I have attempted to model. It is customized such that the low end retains some snap while the top end can still breathe out to upper rpm and it absolutely shoves air at the turbo manifolds. Everything you want in an efficient boost machine.

While I play with ways to take this smart cam and toil it into a more linear delivery of power instead of being all linebacker grunt at the snap, the strong whisper in my ear suggests that I run with it as it is and see where the model meets reality both in terms of mechanical function of airflow and boost as well as in the real world boost creep and R3 / MAC strategies to roll that creep more smoothly or change spark timing to influence the runaway train once those twin boilers are lit off. Of note, yes I can shift the curves to the right and make the torque ramp a bit smoother and I have used several of the big shop vendor approaches to do so in different ways, I just run into other restrictions like the LS6/78 combination if I stretch higher than 6500rpm. I do not mind at all running this combo to 7000 as the engine and valvetrain are built specifically to take it happily. Maybe all it means is more boost (restriction) shown due to the intake setup as it tried to stack air into the engine. But I continue to lean more towards trying the current cam and combo as it is and getting a real world baseline.

I had had a heavy concern for the springs since lift on the cam was so high, but then I looked up the pac-1222x pieces again and see that their bind level is 0.700" which leaves plenty of room. I only wonder how long they go between the need for replacement. Something tells me I'll want to be measuring their force each spring.

I started this trek to build an all around rocket ship, so let's see what it can do!!

 

I had planned to plastic weld an ABS sheet for use in covering my C7 Comp seat airbag mount locations this year when I got to it. Not only was I beat to THAT approach and by a better hand than my own, but then Bjorn from (Norway?) went a step further and made a very clean cover set. I hate to be that guy, but I reached out to see if he might be able to make a second pair because I just do not have that skillset level of quality for something which I would want to look fairly clean.

 

No luck on those above, but it did plant ideas in my head. And who knows.... maybe now is the time for me to learn to be semi competent with fiberglass?

I am looking at my oiling system last night and today with plans to order the final adapters and lines.

I believe what I have is an Improved Racing Egm-116 currently. This unit has 2x 1/8" NPT ports for signals or a turbo feed, and one 8AN port.

I have to confirm if that's what I've got in the garage.

I think I need their Egm-106 which offers 2x 1/8" NPT for sensors or Turbo feed, AND both an In and an Out port of 8 to 12AN. I believe this is the one to fit my needs as I can run the cooler with 10an lines the entire way out and back, and then be feeding the turbos either one off each NPT or one sensor mount and one Y split to the turbos.

This all makes sense in my mind's eye save for one thing. When I installed drain returns to the pan for the turbos I went with 12an fittings on guidance. The HPTs have 4an fittings. Given the proximity they will have to the pan and block, and given that I wish the line to have a pretty constant downward angle to facilitate ease of gravity feed draining, I don't know that adapting out from a 12 to a 4 will be super feasible. I also don't think that AN fittings in general will adapt in the short distance allotted and not just be all fittings and almost no line. In my head I find myself wondering about having a hose barb end made from a 12an fitting and just run hose ends from the turbos to the pan with good clamps like scandvik, mishimoto, or akihisa.

I also pondered oil pressure once again and had inquired of Agim if he had experienced any leaks / failed seals on his street driven huron kit. He has not, thankfully. My concern had been long term heat exposure to turbos potentially killing any swivel fittings with O-rings inside. He has not had that issue and so my setup with coated pipes and turbine housing, and then a blanket on the housing as well, ought not to be at risk for same. Now I can consider which style/brand of 10an lines I wish to order for the cooler routing, as well as most of the fittings and lines for the turbo feeds as well. I really ought to go check out my jug 'o fittings out there which is full of ten years or more of spare AN pieces to keep costs low. The darned things have reached ridiculous costs in the post-covid world.

In asking about leaks and flow I learned something new to me. Many use the 10295 Melling which at base installed spring offer +10 psi vs oem. So 70 vs 60. I also learned that some are using the Copo spring in the 10295s now which yields a reported range of 75 to 85psi bypass pressure. The 10355 I have installed unchanged comes with an orange spring which has a 70psi bypass pressure. It apparently also has a green spring (which if it came with it I am sure I saved in a bag somewhere) which sets it to 80psi bypass pressure. The difference of course being that the 10355 flows 33% more gpm than a 10295. The 10355 is intended to AFM/DOD cars. I chose it because my valvetrain is likely to flow more oil and therefore reduce system pressure. I then will also have the cooler lines and the turbo lines to drive. So when the system is hot I would hope not to see a large drop in pressure but that is unknown until it is running. With a 70psi spring in the pump already as it is installed, I am inclined not to uninstall and opt for 80psi yet. I think I would rather monitor it as we go and know that I can always toss a stronger bypass in if needed.

Improved Racing
Egm-106

 

A new contender has entered the ring. Derale makes a similar block but the base port size is 10an where the Improved is 8an and adapts to 8/10/12 fittings. If it will fit without issue then the Derale unit makes better sense to me.

The question I have is which angle fittings to put in place to get up and away from the oil block and shortblock easily. I'm also looking at Redhorse Performance 302 black PTFE ss hose to run for the cooler system because user comments suggest it is fairly flexible.... that seems relative.

My only stopping point before pulling the trigger is determining turbo oil flow needed. The HPTs use 4an feed line which is 1/4" hose, and the oil blocks I am looking at so far use 1/8" ports. [[For notation to myself as a reminder, the same HPTs have an 8an drain adapter which would equate to a 1/2" ID sae hose.]] If I were to have ANY port restriction I would prefer it be on the cooler side vs the turbo feeds. The turbos have regulators built in to restrict flow but if they are 4an then I want to have 4an available to them straight off the port.

Dirty Dingo sells a twin turbo oiling kit. Looking at that, even their block uses 1/8" NPT adapters out to 4an ptfe lines with braided stainless.

https://derale.com/product-footer/fl...s/35611-detail

 

You know I never seem to find the discount cards when I need them. I can't tell you how many times I could have saved a mint at Redhorse Performance. I happened to joke about that on one of their ads and they hooked me up with the current code. Good guys! They apparently track their online presence.

So I just spent a lot, but also saved $230 by using the 20% code as well as taking advantage of one of their bundle kits. I now have all the lines and fittings required for the oil cooler setup as well as the turbo oil feed lines.

Once I verify that the turbo return line is 8an then I'll see what I can find for a 12an barb fitting. I may convert the turbo drains up to 10an in hopes of finding a more common step-down size to connect over to the pan.

As it is currently I plan to set up the oil feeds as independent lines to each turbo. I want to look into fittings to use to get oil temp from the front of the block instead if this kit with engine mounts will clear that space.

 

One of the back burner ideas I've had in my mind was to someday try to figure out how to connect the head unit in my car to the Haltech and use it as a secondary gauge or display area. I figured I'd have to use a Haltech digital dash and port it's video out to the head unit which has a 7" 800x400 display.

I've followed several YT videos of guys using Raspberry Pi's and other similar small cpu boards to create functional digital displays either as dashes, gauges, round gauge faces of various sizes, rectangular screens, etc. Pretty cool stuff. But also just way more coding and software work than I'd really be interested in attempting vs my level of interest or need.

But I stumbled across the page for OneGauge on FB and fired off a random question: Can it work with Haltech and send to display? YES, they can work with Haltech canbus and can output if I have HDMI (which the head unit does.) I fired off a question yet to be responded to since I just sent it but inquiring if it is a one-way display of data or if it can function as a two-way and essentially emulate a digital version of their manual keypads. Who knows? But why not ask since the sky is the limit. The crux will be whatever the cost turns out to be. I'm fine rolling the dice for a few coins, but if the Pi with code is more than that I might hold out and swing for the fences on my own since I know it is possible. That or just wait until there is some free cash to burn someday.

I thought it was interesting. Especially since my go-to, UltraGauge, is now all but defunct and they no longer sell their OBD2 bt adapter to connect out to your phone.

The forum does not always like FB links, but here's one for the old college try.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1EP6XjYUGn/

Of course I went and ran some google searches after that and found pricing as well as various types of competitors.

OneGauge appears to price the setup between 300 to 750+. If the low end was all I needed to make my rig work I might consider that at some point but my interest beyond the price point would absolutely require it to be a working two-way communicator with the ECU specifically to replicate the functions of a keypad in a touch screen device which is hidden but available when wanted.

A good point to be made is that I am not interested in a basic Torque / OBD2 tracker. Those don't show or do anything of interest for my needs and if they did I would just stick an old phone on a mount and do that instead.

One company, GaugeArt, used to have a video convertor which is now discontinued. They only ran it as VGA anyway and we're not going back to 1994 for this. Their current products only spit out OBD2 or canbus basic info.

ZadaTech exists but is likewise useless for me.

GaugeFX looks like an awesome option! It appears they even specialize in GM dashes and would definitely be able to do custom gauge overlays or setups from what I could see. I thought that service/option went away when Xtreme lost his supplier for paper to use but it looks as though it has been resurrected. I kept that gauge cluster somewhere with the custom gauge faces on it. I'll have to dig it up. I didn't go over the top. I just removed every other hash mark on the main gauges to simplify them, and then removed all the unnecessary O and max value indicators and logos. What was left was a very clean C5 gauge face.

RealDash appears to be more of the same pointless OBD2 streams where people are basically paying for a graphics overlay unless I am mistaken. I see that they have names of several aftermarket ECU brands on the page so that makes me wonder what they might be capable of, but it does not give great specificity beyond that.

Being honest, it looks as though for the large part it might be just as good to go my own way and grab a Pi5, PiCan3, wires, and learn some Linux. Although if the OneGauge setup basically includes that and has everything already set to run and is at their low end of pricing then that's a fair deal since each box I listed in this section is about $100. Paying a $100 or $200 premium at that point for the software work by OneGauge would be a sensible and acceptable balance point then.

 

Looks like I got the angles right so the two lines can run parallel pretty cleanly. 10an is some thick line! The block is native 10an as well. Every other one I could find was 8an and necked up.

 

Unearthed some goodness as I've been clearing the garage so it can be put to use again finally. Two years of pain and two weeks ago I woke up and it was low, so we're doing what we can while we can.

I will have to puzzle out the air control for these, as well as where to put the rife pressure sensor. Pretty sure I don't need or want the cooling lines which I did not know these had, but now that's another thing to read up on and educate myself.

I also need to figure out which spring weight to run as a baseline. I'm thinking for early on testing to keep it dead low at 3lbs.or if the air system can lay control over top of that then maybe even keep it in place.

 

Digital Dash

I did recently consider a digital dash having seen the CarChains application of the Holley 12.3" screen. Users do not tend to like the Holley product because it does not equate to current OEM dim and bright factors. It is also two grand and that is a number not worth it to me. I took the dimensions of the cluster (15" by 5.5" total from the side bumps up to top center.) This is fine except that it is of course a rounded top and this makes fitting an ultrawide 14" or more screen very difficult when trying to optimize usable visible area and still fit within the confines of the dash itself and dash pad. In my case I would have used a micro-pc as a display driver but I decided against it for now because removing the OEM cluster would nix the HUD function. Yes, I *could* simply remove the rear boards and DIC portions from the factory cluster and install/stash them somewhere and simply lengthen the wires to the HUD and control panel for it and retain the HUD. But that all becomes a LOT of headache just to accommodate a screen and the screen is still something I am not hot for. I do know now that I can port Haltech data feeds to a micro-pc and then out to my stereo head unit's HDMI feed. I really wish I could make this haptic cell phone style glass touch screen a functional two-way device, but using it as a live Haltech data display when tuning / logging / driving if needed or when wanted is sufficient for me. Micro-pcs grow on trees now so this becomes pretty easy. MUCH easier than playing with a screen in the gauge cluster.

If someone needs the Holley screen's many functions, then this is a great option. For me, I don't need it and the 2k expense is high, so a $200 computer and a 50 to 200 dollar screen and a few hours installing and coding it to work is the far preferred method for me if I ever came back to this.

I think CarChains did an excellent job with the mount and surround! He's proudly a fellow C5 owner.







Mk60 ABS Conversion

I also looked into the BMW Mk60 ABS conversion. The topic has come up several times but I never dove into it. What drove me was the question in my mind of: Can is emulate or truly duplicate an advances stability control function between the R3 and an Mk60 system?

The simple answer is no. The internal coding for the various Mk60 in it's base M3, E1, E5 and M3 ZCP/CSL variants cannot be re-written so the best you can hope for is a general approximation of settings to choose from based on existing BMW models of the era. Not something specific to your C5 or the various alterations you make to it. So, yes, I can install any of the units, I can convert my existing speed sensors to it, I can then convert output to CANbus in Haltech code. I can log and send Yaw, Lateral G, 2 or 4 line brake pressure, brake switch, fault codes, a Fast and a Slow wire request for torque strategies or throttle body closure, respectively. The Mk60 would remain the 'brain' controlling all brake pulsing. The R3 would still be executing just it's inherent slip / traction strategy. It might also have a "no full boost" lockout if there is a brake fault or the brake switch is engaged. Otherwise, it is just logging data for you to audit later. And the R3 has its own built-in 6-axis IMU which tells it fore/aft, lateral, and vertical direction / accel / decel so any data from the Mk60 is only then for comparative purposes or again for logging needs.

Cool to know and now be aware. But in a car which still retains functional oem ABS I perceive no benefit to converting to an Mk60 system. The benefit remains for guys who race because the OEM abs can sometimes throw into Ice Mode and wreck the car or hurt the driver and possibly anyone near you on the track. There the Mk60 family makes a lot of sense. Also any earlier year car which needs an EBCM and cannot get one, you can do a basic standalone install of an Mk60 and get right back on the road.

Variants and benefits
Mk60 - This one has external brake pressure sensors which make for easier maintenance or repair. It has no real signal output other than OBD for reading faults. Install it, hook it up to a brake switch, power/ground and an OBD connection and this thing gets the job done.

Mk60E1 - brake pressure sensors are internal. It runs one for each front wheel and one for the combined rear wheels. So 3. It absolutely rips and gets the job done and I feel is the optimal upgrade for a C5. Less expensive. Full function. This one has canbus feed data output.

Mk60E5 - this one has now separate brake pressure signals for all four corners and also has a canbus output. More work to integrate, especially if you seek any signal integration, but it also would yield more useful information if you want to audit logs after drives or track time.

ZCP/CSL - the Sport setting for the lightweight track car variant of the M3 which essentially allows more slip and yaw before interrupting. Because it is not inherently set to C5 needs, there is no perceived benefit to sourcing this unit unless you already own a BMW in my mind. Especially since if you elect to pay for the "Motorsport Tune" of any of these Mk60 models you can allegedly achieve the same function by electing to use the settings for the car this was intended for.

Happy Cactus offers two versions of wheel speed sensor signal conversions for C5s and Early C6s, or later C6s - the either/or option seems wise if you don't know which sensors you may run in the future. Sometimes those C6 hubs are less expensive, you know?

Bluegrass Race Electronics offers a CAN gateway for the E1 and E5 to output data to any Haltech ECU.

Essentially: Hub Speed Sensor --> Happy Cactus --> Mk60 --> BRE --> Haltech


Now. If I didn't like airbags so much I absolutely would add this along with the R3 to be able to flip through settings or control add-on car functions without pulling my hands from the wheel. This company seems to have built a product with an excellent concept of it being universally customized to your preference. This is something I always appreciate when a vendor allows the user to dictate for themselves how best to use a product.

 

Thanks for the detailed information!

 

You definitely do your homework and research. Good info for anyone needing it.

 

I don't think most would need any of it. Possibly more common in the future would be the digital dash. It seems the only challenge there would be identifying the best screen for the purpose. High resolution in those dimensions is easily available. Led or amoled bring cost with them for the wider range of darkness vs light coloring and then the wider range of brightness settings. I could not identify specifically what type of screen Holley uses, but based on the general comments of brightness I am guessing an LCD touch screen?

We will definitely see more options in the world going forward. Ray mentioned that KDtv might have C5 and C6 digital dashes as a future plan and that the center console screen he recently has been selling definitely has two wires reserved for communication with such a setup.