How to Dyno an Automatic C5
04-11-2017, 08:25 PM
#1
How to Dyno an Automatic C5
Hi,
Looking for some help to dyno a C5 corvette with an automatic transmission.
I know that third is 1:1 but what should I do a wide open pull in third.?
Looking for some help to dyno a C5 corvette with an automatic transmission.
I know that third is 1:1 but what should I do a wide open pull in third.?
04-13-2017, 03:07 AM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Ok On any stock GM car when you go to WOT the converter becomes UNLOCKED-- so when your car is on the dyno in 3rd gear yea it is unlocked---As far as I know you cannot tune a GM car to have the converter locked at WOT -the only way you can is to have HP tuning or EFILIVE and use the "real time tuniing function to lock the converter regardless of throttle position--speed or current gear
But this is not necessary as the dyno is simpy a tuning tool---to compare TQ and HP compared to altering tuning parameters----So you can gain knowledge even if the converter is unlocked at WOT
YES maybe while LOCKED you may see some HP and TQ gains but you have to realize that when the converter is LOCKED it is locked simply to reduce trans heat and improve gas mileage A locked converter clutch is NOT designed to handle WOT HP--but simply cruising HP values----Often times when someone tries to dyno their car with the converter locked they will fry the converter lock up clutches--- So what is the point ? showing off better HP values at the risk of damaging your trans or using the unlocked values on the dyno as a "tuning tool" only as it should be used and NOT as a dyno sheet to show off to your buddies----
Remember when drag racing any GM car-- at WOT the converter NEVER will LOCK so why is having it locked on the dyno give you any relevant tuning data potential improvements ?
But this is not necessary as the dyno is simpy a tuning tool---to compare TQ and HP compared to altering tuning parameters----So you can gain knowledge even if the converter is unlocked at WOT
YES maybe while LOCKED you may see some HP and TQ gains but you have to realize that when the converter is LOCKED it is locked simply to reduce trans heat and improve gas mileage A locked converter clutch is NOT designed to handle WOT HP--but simply cruising HP values----Often times when someone tries to dyno their car with the converter locked they will fry the converter lock up clutches--- So what is the point ? showing off better HP values at the risk of damaging your trans or using the unlocked values on the dyno as a "tuning tool" only as it should be used and NOT as a dyno sheet to show off to your buddies----
Remember when drag racing any GM car-- at WOT the converter NEVER will LOCK so why is having it locked on the dyno give you any relevant tuning data potential improvements ?
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professorjim (06-08-2017)
04-14-2017, 01:43 AM
#6
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I haven't put mine on our dyno yet.
I'd assume I'll have to use HPT to put it in 3rd so it won't downshift.
That was the case with a Camaro I tuned awhile back. I locked the converter too. It didn't make enough hp to hurt it.
Kind of interesting. The Dodges do indeed lock the converter, by themselves in all but low gear. Even the high hp stuff lives. I've seen the insides. Single disc clutch just like the GM.
BTW, locking the converter has a rather large effect on the power. Depending on the stall speed of course.
I'd assume I'll have to use HPT to put it in 3rd so it won't downshift.
That was the case with a Camaro I tuned awhile back. I locked the converter too. It didn't make enough hp to hurt it.
Kind of interesting. The Dodges do indeed lock the converter, by themselves in all but low gear. Even the high hp stuff lives. I've seen the insides. Single disc clutch just like the GM.
BTW, locking the converter has a rather large effect on the power. Depending on the stall speed of course.
06-08-2017, 10:35 PM
#7
I haven't put mine on our dyno yet.
I'd assume I'll have to use HPT to put it in 3rd so it won't downshift.
That was the case with a Camaro I tuned awhile back. I locked the converter too. It didn't make enough hp to hurt it.
Kind of interesting. The Dodges do indeed lock the converter, by themselves in all but low gear. Even the high hp stuff lives. I've seen the insides. Single disc clutch just like the GM.
BTW, locking the converter has a rather large effect on the power. Depending on the stall speed of course.
I'd assume I'll have to use HPT to put it in 3rd so it won't downshift.
That was the case with a Camaro I tuned awhile back. I locked the converter too. It didn't make enough hp to hurt it.
Kind of interesting. The Dodges do indeed lock the converter, by themselves in all but low gear. Even the high hp stuff lives. I've seen the insides. Single disc clutch just like the GM.
BTW, locking the converter has a rather large effect on the power. Depending on the stall speed of course.
At WOT in third with load from dyno the trans will not downshift, nor will it lockup unless you pull back on the power a bit, but that would defeat the purpose of the dyno tune, wouldn't it? .
professor jim
06-09-2017, 10:50 AM
#8
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Ok On any stock GM car when you go to WOT the converter becomes UNLOCKED-- so when your car is on the dyno in 3rd gear yea it is unlocked---As far as I know you cannot tune a GM car to have the converter locked at WOT -the only way you can is to have HP tuning or EFILIVE and use the "real time tuniing function to lock the converter regardless of throttle position--speed or current gear
But this is not necessary as the dyno is simpy a tuning tool---to compare TQ and HP compared to altering tuning parameters----So you can gain knowledge even if the converter is unlocked at WOT
YES maybe while LOCKED you may see some HP and TQ gains but you have to realize that when the converter is LOCKED it is locked simply to reduce trans heat and improve gas mileage A locked converter clutch is NOT designed to handle WOT HP--but simply cruising HP values----Often times when someone tries to dyno their car with the converter locked they will fry the converter lock up clutches--- So what is the point ? showing off better HP values at the risk of damaging your trans or using the unlocked values on the dyno as a "tuning tool" only as it should be used and NOT as a dyno sheet to show off to your buddies----
Remember when drag racing any GM car-- at WOT the converter NEVER will LOCK so why is having it locked on the dyno give you any relevant tuning data potential improvements ?
But this is not necessary as the dyno is simpy a tuning tool---to compare TQ and HP compared to altering tuning parameters----So you can gain knowledge even if the converter is unlocked at WOT
YES maybe while LOCKED you may see some HP and TQ gains but you have to realize that when the converter is LOCKED it is locked simply to reduce trans heat and improve gas mileage A locked converter clutch is NOT designed to handle WOT HP--but simply cruising HP values----Often times when someone tries to dyno their car with the converter locked they will fry the converter lock up clutches--- So what is the point ? showing off better HP values at the risk of damaging your trans or using the unlocked values on the dyno as a "tuning tool" only as it should be used and NOT as a dyno sheet to show off to your buddies----
Remember when drag racing any GM car-- at WOT the converter NEVER will LOCK so why is having it locked on the dyno give you any relevant tuning data potential improvements ?
I'm really not trying to bust your chops, but you often give out incorrect information regarding tuning. Please stop.
You absolutely can tune the car to lock up at WOT.
You will not damage your trans if you lock it on the dyno.
Locking it on the dyno lets you tune the lower RPM band that would normally be pushed through if not locked, especially if the car has a higher stall.
We also lock some convertors at the track because it raises MPH on the top end depending on the build.
06-12-2017, 05:31 PM
#10
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
I'm really not trying to bust your chops, but you often give out incorrect information regarding tuning. Please stop.
You absolutely can tune the car to lock up at WOT.
You will not damage your trans if you lock it on the dyno.
Locking it on the dyno lets you tune the lower RPM band that would normally be pushed through if not locked, especially if the car has a higher stall.
We also lock some convertors at the track because it raises MPH on the top end depending on the build.
You absolutely can tune the car to lock up at WOT.
You will not damage your trans if you lock it on the dyno.
Locking it on the dyno lets you tune the lower RPM band that would normally be pushed through if not locked, especially if the car has a higher stall.
We also lock some convertors at the track because it raises MPH on the top end depending on the build.
Well I dis agree Wth EFILIVE
In any gear--ANY throttle position LESS than 100 % will "release or unlock the converter" at any MPH value
The only way to have the converter to remain "Locked " would be IF you were able to raise the setting PAST 100% TPS----However the TCC release tables do NOT go beyond 100 % TPS So it cannot be done
If you lift somewhat OFF the throttle to LESS than 100% yes it will remain locked--But that is difficult to achieve-and what would be the point anyway
I have researched this before with EFILIVE directly and they have explained it to me just as I have Won't work ---
ALSO The TCC lock-up clutch is NOT designed to be used under full power and TQ----It is used to increase fuel mileage and reduce heat in the trans while cruising on the freeway -- ONLY
Are you trying to say you would be comfortable putting 400 RWHP
or more thru a single 1/1/2 " lock up clutch band in the converter ?? That's crazy--- IT will fail----
PS With EFILIVE using the the DVT function (dynamic vehicle testing) depending on the year model you may be able to lock the converter manually using the data logger and DVT---But on the track the driver would not be able to do this alone----On the DYNO perhaps yes you could only manually force the TCC to LOCK at WOT
Last edited by tblu92; 06-12-2017 at 05:36 PM.
06-12-2017, 06:02 PM
#11
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Well I dis agree Wth EFILIVE
In any gear--ANY throttle position LESS than 100 % will "release or unlock the converter" at any MPH value
The only way to have the converter to remain "Locked " would be IF you were able to raise the setting PAST 100% TPS----However the TCC release tables do NOT go beyond 100 % TPS So it cannot be done
If you lift somewhat OFF the throttle to LESS than 100% yes it will remain locked--But that is difficult to achieve-and what would be the point anyway
I have researched this before with EFILIVE directly and they have explained it to me just as I have Won't work ---
ALSO The TCC lock-up clutch is NOT designed to be used under full power and TQ----It is used to increase fuel mileage and reduce heat in the trans while cruising on the freeway -- ONLY
Are you trying to say you would be comfortable putting 400 RWHP
or more thru a single 1/1/2 " lock up clutch band in the converter ?? That's crazy--- IT will fail----
PS With EFILIVE using the the DVT function (dynamic vehicle testing) depending on the year model you may be able to lock the converter manually using the data logger and DVT---But on the track the driver would not be able to do this alone----On the DYNO perhaps yes you could only manually force the TCC to LOCK at WOT
In any gear--ANY throttle position LESS than 100 % will "release or unlock the converter" at any MPH value
The only way to have the converter to remain "Locked " would be IF you were able to raise the setting PAST 100% TPS----However the TCC release tables do NOT go beyond 100 % TPS So it cannot be done
If you lift somewhat OFF the throttle to LESS than 100% yes it will remain locked--But that is difficult to achieve-and what would be the point anyway
I have researched this before with EFILIVE directly and they have explained it to me just as I have Won't work ---
ALSO The TCC lock-up clutch is NOT designed to be used under full power and TQ----It is used to increase fuel mileage and reduce heat in the trans while cruising on the freeway -- ONLY
Are you trying to say you would be comfortable putting 400 RWHP
or more thru a single 1/1/2 " lock up clutch band in the converter ?? That's crazy--- IT will fail----
PS With EFILIVE using the the DVT function (dynamic vehicle testing) depending on the year model you may be able to lock the converter manually using the data logger and DVT---But on the track the driver would not be able to do this alone----On the DYNO perhaps yes you could only manually force the TCC to LOCK at WOT
Again, please stop...
06-15-2017, 12:29 AM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
I have to wonder where you get your information --I have to assume you use HP so thats why we dis agree Hp guys will never agree with anyone who tunes with EFILIVE---- OR if you are using EFILIVE you can't get around what the software descriptions say and you don't understand the parameters---
I am NOT making this stuff up---This is directly from EFILIVE and directly from my trainer who trained me 15 years ago---
Bottom line
AT WOT the TCC will UNLOCK at 100% TPS or anything less--so you cannot make it stay locked ever at WOT because the unlock or relaease tables end at 100% TPS
What about this do you not understand ??? HP software and EFILIVE software may be different and use different nomenclature BUT neither one can exceed the tables that are built into the ECM by GM---
AGAIN at WOT the TCC will release or unlock this cannot be changed
I am NOT making this stuff up---This is directly from EFILIVE and directly from my trainer who trained me 15 years ago---
Bottom line
AT WOT the TCC will UNLOCK at 100% TPS or anything less--so you cannot make it stay locked ever at WOT because the unlock or relaease tables end at 100% TPS
What about this do you not understand ??? HP software and EFILIVE software may be different and use different nomenclature BUT neither one can exceed the tables that are built into the ECM by GM---
AGAIN at WOT the TCC will release or unlock this cannot be changed
Last edited by tblu92; 06-15-2017 at 12:50 AM.
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professorjim (06-15-2017)
06-15-2017, 01:08 AM
#13
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
HERE IS THE DATA FROM EFILIVE CONCERNING TCC UNLOCK AND RELEASE PARAMETERS AT WOT
PASTED DIRECTLY FROM EFILIVE 8.2 SOFTWARE
Determines the throttle position (TPS) at which the TCC will be unlocked in third gear
LABELS Gear mode
MPH {link: SAE.VSS} Normal Performance Cruise
0 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
8 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
16 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
24 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
32 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
40 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
48 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
56 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
64 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
72 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
80 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
88 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
96 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
104 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
112 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
120 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
128 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948.
THE MAX SETTING ON THESE TABLES IS 100% THE GM TABLES DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO INPUT ANY THROTTLE POSITION GREATER THAN 100% WHICH WOULD LEAVE THE TCC LOCKED AT WOT-----IF YOU INPUT ANYTHING LESS THAN 100% IT WILL UNLOCK EVEN EARLIER AND AT AN EVER LOWER MPH
SO IN ORDER TO COMMAND THE TCC TO REMAIN LOCKED AT WOT YOU WOULD HAVE TO INPUT MORE THAN 100% TPS HOWEVER THE MAX VALUE ALLOWED IS ONLY 100%
SO HERE IS THE PROOF RIGHT FROM THE EFILIVE SOFTWARE THAT SHOWS YOU CANNOT LOCK THE CONVERTER UNLESS YOU WERE ABLE TO INPUT A TPS GREATER THAN 100% OR WOT
PASTED DIRECTLY FROM EFILIVE 8.2 SOFTWARE
Determines the throttle position (TPS) at which the TCC will be unlocked in third gear
LABELS Gear mode
MPH {link: SAE.VSS} Normal Performance Cruise
0 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
8 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
16 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
24 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
32 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
40 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
48 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
56 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
64 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
72 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
80 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
88 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
96 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
104 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
112 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
120 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948
128 99.996948 99.996948 99.996948.
THE MAX SETTING ON THESE TABLES IS 100% THE GM TABLES DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO INPUT ANY THROTTLE POSITION GREATER THAN 100% WHICH WOULD LEAVE THE TCC LOCKED AT WOT-----IF YOU INPUT ANYTHING LESS THAN 100% IT WILL UNLOCK EVEN EARLIER AND AT AN EVER LOWER MPH
SO IN ORDER TO COMMAND THE TCC TO REMAIN LOCKED AT WOT YOU WOULD HAVE TO INPUT MORE THAN 100% TPS HOWEVER THE MAX VALUE ALLOWED IS ONLY 100%
SO HERE IS THE PROOF RIGHT FROM THE EFILIVE SOFTWARE THAT SHOWS YOU CANNOT LOCK THE CONVERTER UNLESS YOU WERE ABLE TO INPUT A TPS GREATER THAN 100% OR WOT
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professorjim (06-15-2017)
06-15-2017, 09:54 AM
#14
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I have to wonder where you get your information --I have to assume you use HP so thats why we dis agree Hp guys will never agree with anyone who tunes with EFILIVE---- OR if you are using EFILIVE you can't get around what the software descriptions say and you don't understand the parameters---
I am NOT making this stuff up---This is directly from EFILIVE and directly from my trainer who trained me 15 years ago---
Bottom line
AT WOT the TCC will UNLOCK at 100% TPS or anything less--so you cannot make it stay locked ever at WOT because the unlock or relaease tables end at 100% TPS
What about this do you not understand ??? HP software and EFILIVE software may be different and use different nomenclature BUT neither one can exceed the tables that are built into the ECM by GM---
AGAIN at WOT the TCC will release or unlock this cannot be changed
I am NOT making this stuff up---This is directly from EFILIVE and directly from my trainer who trained me 15 years ago---
Bottom line
AT WOT the TCC will UNLOCK at 100% TPS or anything less--so you cannot make it stay locked ever at WOT because the unlock or relaease tables end at 100% TPS
What about this do you not understand ??? HP software and EFILIVE software may be different and use different nomenclature BUT neither one can exceed the tables that are built into the ECM by GM---
AGAIN at WOT the TCC will release or unlock this cannot be changed
You can post whatever you want about some trainer from 15 years ago, but I have been doing this in the field for many years.
I am done posting in this thread as it's no help to me if you do not understand how to make a converter lock at WOT. I just think it's a shame that I have seen you post incorrect tuning info often over the years and you are not helping those who read it.
06-22-2017, 10:29 PM
#16
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Show us all how you LOCK the TCC using EFILVE at WOT and I will conceed--
07-06-2017, 06:13 PM
#17
Safety Car
Would you settle for a hack like me showing you? D1002 on my truck is how it's done. Trucks of my era had a WOT TCC lock in 3rd gear, all of them. When I did my 4L80 swap that segment had a WOT TCC lock in 2nd gear. So not only can you do it, GM delivered cars like that with a warranty.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
Last edited by Supercharged111; 07-06-2017 at 06:13 PM.
07-07-2017, 12:33 PM
#18
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Would you settle for a hack like me showing you? D1002 on my truck is how it's done. Trucks of my era had a WOT TCC lock in 3rd gear, all of them. When I did my 4L80 swap that segment had a WOT TCC lock in 2nd gear. So not only can you do it, GM delivered cars like that with a warranty.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
Can't be!
Way back in the LS1 edit days we would hard wire a switch since we didn't have the tables to adjust. Locking up a 9 second car every pass at WOT. But it can't be!!
07-10-2017, 09:01 PM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Would you settle for a hack like me showing you? D1002 on my truck is how it's done. Trucks of my era had a WOT TCC lock in 3rd gear, all of them. When I did my 4L80 swap that segment had a WOT TCC lock in 2nd gear. So not only can you do it, GM delivered cars like that with a warranty.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
You can see here that, at 62.5% TP and above, the TCC will remain locked in 3rd gear. The only time you'll notice this with the gear selector in OD is when you do a full 1-2-3 pull. It'll shift into 3rd gear, then the TCC will apply and if you have a slow *** truck like me it'll fall on its face. I kept thinking I was getting KR or the Whippletronics were going crazy on my dually but then I remembered that WOT TCC lock in 2nd. I can't wait to 411 swap that pig. Where this is beneficial is when towing, if you're doing so at 70 or higher it'll downshift and lock up and keep the trans cool. Very useful for the rolling hills around me.
And it appears I'm done with Photobucket. FML.
Stock programming unlocks the converter at 100 % TPS
If you set it below 100% it will unlock even earlier than 100% TPS
So the only way to keep the TCC locked would be if you could program the unlock TPS ABOVE 100% --as the TPS will never go above 100% would make the TCC NOT UNLOCK---However these tables all max out at exactly 100% so you are not allowed to input anything higher
No matter what anyone says I am sure of this and have tried many other options to keep the TCC locked on the track---nothing works---Being that ECS only says he knows HOW and refuses to share his magic trick and to respond to the TCC unlock tables I posted only confirms to me his thinking is incorrect-----